Rio Olympics - track cycling

Pross

Certainly not looking good. Presumably whoever comes in needs to be a Level 4 coach although the last I heard they were still developing the syllabus for that (although that was a few years ago now). There won't be many of those around so they may opt for a highly experienced Level 3. What about Jamie Staff or is he still with the US setup? Are there any women currently high up in the coaching setup? If so, that may appeal at the moment.

carbonclem

Becoming a father again at 58! Blimey

my_grandadʹs_bike

CarbonClem wrote:

Becoming a father again at 58! Blimey

I know, you'd think 25 was a more suitable age wouldn't you

DeVlaeminck

https://mobile.twitter.com/helenpidd?re ... r%5Eauthor

Be interesting to know who these quotes are attibutable to!

DeVlaeminck

http://cyclingtips.com/2014/03/the-huma ... ld-medals/

dav1d1

British cycling technical director Sutton to resign, good as well never warmed to him being in head of the BC Olympics team

RoadPainter

What a complete disaster so close to Rio. Whether you like him or not, believe him or not - a change now is massively high risk and almost certainly detrimental to medal chances.

inseine

RoadPainter wrote:

What a complete disaster so close to Rio. Whether you like him or not, believe him or not - a change now is massively high risk and almost certainly detrimental to medal chances.

Seems like he's made his bed and there was no other choice. Worse PR than the good PR from winning medals.

Coach H

Shane Sutton suspended then resigned for being............................................well, Shane Sutton

Anyone would think that he hasn't been featured in loads of documentaries being exactly the sort of person he is now being depicted as.

It wouldn't surprise me if he has made those kind of comments in an unthinking and overly blunt way, but if he was REALLY sexist would have he restarted the women's academy programme or replace Steve Peters with a woman?

salsiccia1

Hmmm. My overriding feeling is that it's pretty sad for all concerned. No-one's looking very good.

slowbike

Coach H wrote:

Shane Sutton suspended then resigned for being............................................well, Shane Sutton

Totally accept that some people are blunt - and that can work well in some relationships with what's normally considered abusive terms being used with respect. That doesn't work in all situations though.

If JV was dropped purely on performance grounds then the data will quickly back that up.
If derogatory terms were used for the paralympians then unless those terms were used with respect and to their face then it's just a derogatory term - he should know better.

The fact that he's resigned suggests that there is something to the allegations. I hope it doesn't detract from the games.

Coach H

Slowbike wrote:

Coach H wrote:

The fact that he's resigned suggests that there is something to the allegations. I hope it doesn't detract from the games.

Or he knows that in a 'he said' 'she said' situation that's gone public the person in the position of power normally takes the hit.

No one is condoning bullying or discrimination. Shane Sutton is well known for being someone who's demeanour and vocabulary appears insensitive and crass. I should think that no-one with even a limited exposure to cycling would not be aware of this (certainly cyclists on BC programmes). How does he actually think and act?

Perhaps losing the balance created by the holy trinity of Sir Dave (everything is results driven), Dr Steve Peters (every negative is actually a positive) and Sutton (just the facts) has caused the real problem here.

ozzzyosborn206

:roll:

The_Boy

Coach H wrote:

Anyone would think that he hasn't been featured in loads of documentaries being exactly the sort of person he is now being depicted as.

He's been depicted in documentaries being a nasty, wee bigot? Because that's what he's been accused of by a number of people*, and is a world away from simply being a gruff straight talker.

*and again, because this is the internet, I pass no judgement on SS I'm simply discussing the allegations. He may or may not be a cunt, I wouldn't know.

Lanterne_Rogue

"Women are just over sensitive". I'm not sure about that - if I had to listen to people telling me every bloody day that I was " sensitive " purely because of my gender, I'd pretty quickly want to slap someone. The fact this doesn't happen is probably good evidence that women are no more sensitive than anyone else...

Also not entirely convinced by arguments that bullying is fine if it gets results.

Stridor

Does anyone here think that its OK to call people with disabilities "Fucking Gimps"?....

If those allegations are found to be true, is it excusable because it's been said by a blunt Australian?

Can those comments be dismissed as all the alleged sexist comments are being dismissed?

Pross

Stridor wrote:

Does anyone here think that its OK to call people with disabilities "******* Gimps"?....

If those allegations are found to be true, is it excusable because it's been said by a blunt Australian?

Can those comments be dismissed as all the alleged sexist comments are being dismissed?

The only situation I can think of where it possibly could be is if it was joining in with that 'black humour' that can sometimes develop in that sort of environment (for example, see the sort of thing they say on The Last Leg and in particular their show during the last Paralympics) but generally no, it's indefensible just as the baby comment would be if true.

My own position in all this is that sometimes people are too quick to hang, draw and quarter a person solely on the word of one other person and without any knowledge of the truth. You never know if it's the truth or people with an axe to grind.

Personally, my opinion of Sutton (based on experience of him running open training sessions 20 odd years ago when he became Welsh coach and subsequent interviews etc.) is that he's a bit of a Gene Hunt style dinosaur and probably highly politically incorrect. People have different tolerance levels to that sort of thing from taking huge offence to finding it fine which may account for the apparent split opinion among those who are in the squad.

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Sutton wash up with the Aussies after the Olympics complete with all his BC knowledge. Short term maybe Braillsford can be drafted in, I suspect much of the more 'strategic' coaching work has been done by now and the bulk of the work is being done by specific coaches.

nickice

Stridor wrote:

Does anyone here think that its OK to call people with disabilities "******* Gimps"?....

If those allegations are found to be true, is it excusable because it's been said by a blunt Australian?

Can those comments be dismissed as all the alleged sexist comments are being dismissed?

The comments are not acceptable but if you recorded somebody 24/7 you'd hear worse. There's a world of difference between a joke between mates and saying it, and meaning it, to someone's face. He's being held to an impossibly high standard in what must be a very competitive environment. Alex Ferguson would have lost his job several times over if he was held to the same standards. The two things he allegedly said to Jess Varnish could easily have been said in good faith or jokingly (do you think the men haven't been told worse) Jess Varnish doesn't want equal treatment. She wants special treatment and should be thoroughly ashamed of herself. It's disappointing to see the hatchet job has worked.

Yellow Peril

FYI...

Fuck the hypocrisy ‏@Digger_forum 8m8 minutes ago
Best defence for Sutton comes from bike radar. He was treating women too equally and women are too sensitive. Glad that's cleared up!
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nickice

Yellow Peril wrote:

FYI...

fark the hypocrisy ‏@Digger_forum 8m8 minutes ago
Best defence for Sutton comes from bike radar. He was treating women too equally and women are too sensitive. Glad that's cleared up!
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Diggers goes through the bike forums looking for a scoop...

rick_chasey

Who on earth is that?

And his (presumably a him) Twitter name is f@ck the hypocrisy? Is it cool now to quote any random bell end on here just because they have a Twitter account?

Come on guys. Have some standards.

nickice

Rick Chasey wrote:

Who on earth is that?

And his (presumably a him) Twitter name is f@ck the hypocrisy? Is it cool now to quote any random bell end on here just because they have a Twitter account?

Come on guys. Have some standards.

'bell end'?

rick_chasey

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bellend

nickice

Rick Chasey wrote:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bellend

Sigh...

kleinstroker

Is Jess Varnish still hoping to go to Rio now then?

awavey

Pross wrote:

Certainly not looking good. Presumably whoever comes in needs to be a Level 4 coach although the last I heard they were still developing the syllabus for that (although that was a few years ago now). There won't be many of those around so they may opt for a highly experienced Level 3. What about Jamie Staff or is he still with the US setup? Are there any women currently high up in the coaching setup? If so, that may appeal at the moment.

but isnt this the problem, the role Shane was in, wasnt a coaching role (though Im not saying having coaching skills isnt a bad skill to have in the role it does help to understand what the people who work for you are telling you) but it was a management role, call it performance director, call it technical director, call it directeur sportif if you want, its a general management over seeing things strategy administrator type role.

Iain Dyer is the head coach/coach coordinator for the team, hes the one that should be demanding results from the directly involved coaches/riders, and providing the size 10 kick up the backside if its needed, or extending a comforting arm if its not and simply reporting back to Shane

so they shouldnt be looking for a replacement coach IMO for Shanes role at least

PuttyKnees

One of the interesting facets of institutional sexism is that because it doesn't always arise in the form of a specific, identifiable 'incident', where you can clearly claim some kind of sociopathic assault on norms of behaviour, it is often suggested that is is the result of weakness or misunderstanding - if only they 'manned up' and joined in with the 'banter'.

It's now difficult to pick apart two themes, and this is possibly the confusion that Varnish is suffering. A culture of blunt (or alternatively pick your own euphemism) speaking means that it is not possible to separate a sense of sexism with selection by performance. We'll never know I guess.

What I do know, however, is that sexism is rife in cycling. It's not the big ass, have a baby kind of talk that's most worrying - it's the low level, 'girls / women are not capable to ride for as long, don't deserve equal money' attitude that runs right from elite to juvenile/u14 kids racing. Most people don't even realise that they're a part of it it's so ingrained. Even posters on here with successful female racing members/relatives are seemingly blind to it. I hope that by the time that the kids in my club reach junior/u23 that there might be the cultural shift that's needed to change institutional attitudes. It does seem that the current BC/UCI leadership is incapable.

Tangentially related but brought up a few pages before ...
DH/Enduro - these disciplines are essentially independent of BC. The latter isn't even covered by BC insurance. CX is probably the most inclusive/popular discipline and gets no support and many many regret becoming a part of BC. If we were in any doubt, Jenny Copnall speaks to a complete mismanagement of the MTB XC programme. How can we possibly be at the point where we will have neither male nor female representation at Rio? Annie Last & Killeen, removed from the programme after suffering injuries, Kenta leaving for DH. It's almost as if there are parallels with mismanagement of the track programme!

It all points to incompetence and mismanagement. The medal haul has successfully smoothed over significant problems with attitude and competency in cycling.

Daz555

We have no idea if the allegations are true but this cannot be good for Rio overall. It might help a few riders (Kenny for example who I think has had a few issues with Sutton's style) but others like Wiggo may suffer - Sutton has always known which buttons to press with Wiggo.

Pross

awavey wrote:

Pross wrote:

Certainly not looking good. Presumably whoever comes in needs to be a Level 4 coach although the last I heard they were still developing the syllabus for that (although that was a few years ago now). There won't be many of those around so they may opt for a highly experienced Level 3. What about Jamie Staff or is he still with the US setup? Are there any women currently high up in the coaching setup? If so, that may appeal at the moment.

but isnt this the problem, the role Shane was in, wasnt a coaching role (though Im not saying having coaching skills isnt a bad skill to have in the role it does help to understand what the people who work for you are telling you) but it was a management role, call it performance director, call it technical director, call it directeur sportif if you want, its a general management over seeing things strategy administrator type role.

Iain Dyer is the head coach/coach coordinator for the team, hes the one that should be demanding results from the directly involved coaches/riders, and providing the size 10 kick up the backside if its needed, or extending a comforting arm if its not and simply reporting back to Shane

so they shouldnt be looking for a replacement coach IMO for Shanes role at least

To be honest it's not a role I fully understand. I remember being on a coaching course and they explained that theoretically people running Olympic programmes should be a level 4 but that the syllabus had been finished sot even Sutton or Sir Dave had it. That may have been when Sutton was a more hands on coach though.

My choice for the role would be Sarah Storey but she's still riding. Hugely successful on track in para and non-para events and a decent background on the road and from what I've seen she's a great communicator and very good with the media.

NervexProf

Profile of Sutton: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/a ... ch-cycling