Disc brakes in the Pro ranks.
Comments
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Random thought: 3 riders in my club(inc myself) and using disc brakes now, but every single rider who has crashed in the past 2 months has been on rim brakes.
:roll:
How many are there in your club runs?0 -
Depends on the run, but probably 45-50 split over 3 runsRandom thought: 3 riders in my club(inc myself) and using disc brakes now, but every single rider who has crashed in the past 2 months has been on rim brakes.
:roll:
How many are there in your club runs?And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0 -
I think the issue is more to do with the rider than the style of brakes. Imagine you're a good descender riding behind a less confident descender, you're lined up for the corner and expecting to brake later but the rider on better (disc) brakes brakes earlier than you and harder as they are less sure of themselves. You suddenly find yourself trying to stop earlier than the guy in front of you who can stop faster, this is where I see accidents happening.....and I say this from experience. Ok sure maybe I should have given the guy in front more space but when you're pushing and unfamiliar with your opponent/companion then these situations can happenDon't think there's much disputing that disc brakes work better, especially in the wet and especially after prolonged use, so the argument that rim brakes do the job fine is pretty comprehensively countered.
It's more an issue around weight (forks needs to be more heavily engineered & the housing for the brakes is heavier),and (i thought, anyway) the issues around changing wheels.
That's tough sh!t.
You need to learn when to brake before you start pushing it downhill.
It's racing ffs. You wouldn't see that argument in F1, and they're going a lot faster.0 -
More importantly, what excuse are people going to use to buy new wheels?
The "I've worn the rim out to the point where it's unsafe to carry on using it, so i'll have to by those brand new 303 Zipps" argument won't really work anymore.0 -
the argument that mixing disks and rim brakes in the the peloton is dangerous due to differing braking performance is rubbish.
the riders are all different weights, have different skill and confidence levels. they are also on several different models of bikes with even more models of wheels with even more rim surfaces and even more brake block material.
so even riders on the same team on the same bikes with the same wheels and brake blocks, will brake at different times.
how will disk brakes change that?
a good descender on rim brakes will still ride faster, brake later than a poor descender on disks.
crashes happen when a rider makes a mistake, disk brakes won't change that.
chainrings are spikey and sharp, bladed spokes can do a lot of damage.
a vented cover on a disk and caliper can protect the disk from fingers and probably make it more aero.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
Depends on the run, but probably 45-50 split over 3 runsRandom thought: 3 riders in my club(inc myself) and using disc brakes now, but every single rider who has crashed in the past 2 months has been on rim brakes.
:roll:
How many are there in your club runs?
I guess as a percentage of people riding, there is more chance of rimmers crashing.
The clean lines on forks and stays look good to me with discs and I like the fact expensive rims do not get hammered. No doubt they will progress aesthetically.0 -
True. An idiot(read: inexperienced or distracted rider) rider can cause a crash regardless of the brake type. I've seen no real world evidence that disc brakes are bringing pelotons down all over the place, in the hands of an idiot or otherwise.
Depends on the run, but probably 45-50 split over 3 runsRandom thought: 3 riders in my club(inc myself) and using disc brakes now, but every single rider who has crashed in the past 2 months has been on rim brakes.
:roll:
How many are there in your club runs?
I guess as a percentage of people riding, there is more chance of rimmers crashing.
The clean lines on forks and stays look good to me with discs and I like the fact expensive rims do not get hammered. No doubt they will progress aesthetically.And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0 -
More importantly, what excuse are people going to use to buy new wheels?
The "I've worn the rim out to the point where it's unsafe to carry on using it, so i'll have to by those brand new 303 Zipps" argument won't really work anymore.
That's easy - "with disc brakes my wheels will last for ever - this is a wheelset for life so it's worth spending the money!!"We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
More importantly, what excuse are people going to use to buy new wheels?
The "I've worn the rim out to the point where it's unsafe to carry on using it, so i'll have to by those brand new 303 Zipps" argument won't really work anymore.
That's easy - "with disc brakes my wheels will last for ever - this is a wheelset for life so it's worth spending the money!!"
Disque breaks require a new bike too?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Having disk brakes on my MTB I would probably have them on my road bike too given the chance. I don't care too much about looks or what the pros do - I'd be riding O rings if I did :-).
However I'm a pretty fast descender and don't brake all that much so I'm not too bothered either. Would be nicer in the wet with better modulation, but I'm not going after any records in the wet either. I don't find rim wear a major problem.
It is more faff to change wheels and I'd like to know how long the pads (at 10 euros a pop) will last as they don't last that long on my MTB.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
the argument that mixing disks and rim brakes in the the peloton is dangerous due to differing braking performance is rubbish.
the riders are all different weights, have different skill and confidence levels. they are also on several different models of bikes with even more models of wheels with even more rim surfaces and even more brake block material.
so even riders on the same team on the same bikes with the same wheels and brake blocks, will brake at different times.
how will disk brakes change that?
a good descender on rim brakes will still ride faster, brake later than a poor descender on disks.
crashes happen when a rider makes a mistake, disk brakes won't change that.
chainrings are spikey and sharp, bladed spokes can do a lot of damage.
a vented cover on a disk and caliper can protect the disk from fingers and probably make it more aero.
Have a go on a road bike with decent hydraulic disc brakes and then hop back on your own rim brake bike. The difference is very marked, especially in the wet. In a tightly packed race at speed it would be carnage. With disc brakes there is no cable stretch, much more power, alot more modulation / feel and wet weather makes no difference, also heavier riders benefit more.0 -
I did just this and wouldn't go back to rim brake again, even if hiring or borrowing a bike.Have a go on a road bike with decent hydraulic disc brakes and then hop back on your own rim brake bike.
Because they work every single time you pull the lever, unlike carbon rims in the wet - that work when they feel like it.The difference is very marked, especially in the wet.
Assuming there would be carnage of course. I can't recall any carnage due to discs at the recent event where a few chose to test. People(internet) are acting like the sight of a brake disc is enough to bring pelotons crashing to a sudden stop...In a tightly packed race at speed it would be carnage. With disc brakes there is no cable stretch, much more power, alot more modulation / feel and wet weather makes no difference, also heavier riders benefit more.And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0 -
(Hi Roadies!)
LARGE practical issue, don't think it's come up: Pads and discs need to be broken in.
Changing a wheel on the road will (obviously) mean changing the disc too.
The brakes are then pretty much useless until bedded in. (This requires several hard stops.)0 -
And tubular tyres need to be pre stretched and wheels pre-glued. So what?(Hi Roadies!)
LARGE practical issue, don't think it's come up: Pads and discs need to be broken in.
Changing a wheel on the road will (obviously) mean changing the disc too.
The brakes are then pretty much useless until bedded in. (This requires several hard stops.)And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0 -
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Presumably they'd be bedded in before they're taken to races?
Yep. Just like any tyres will be pre-scrubbed. Not an issue.Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
This post takes me back to when suspension first appeared on mountain bikes.....99.9% of the time on the road disc brakes are no more useful than a good set of Vs or DPs.
Yes in the wet for those unskilled/don't want to learn how to ride properly/can't read the road or see hazards types that also ignore setting up their brakes properly, discs can be useful.
I guess in the same way a brick is as a method of getting in your house.
Discs compensate for sloppy/lazy riding and those that ride beyond their own skill level and that of their machine. It's at those times that a person then finds out it isn't the stopping power of the brakes that needed to increase it was their skill level/thinking and the grip of the tyres.
It's classic risk compensation no different to ABS brakes on motorvehiclesYou only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
This post takes me back to when suspension first appeared on mountain bikes.....99.9% of the time on the road disc brakes are no more useful than a good set of Vs or DPs.
Yes in the wet for those unskilled/don't want to learn how to ride properly/can't read the road or see hazards types that also ignore setting up their brakes properly, discs can be useful.
I guess in the same way a brick is as a method of getting in your house.
Discs compensate for sloppy/lazy riding and those that ride beyond their own skill level and that of their machine. It's at those times that a person then finds out it isn't the stopping power of the brakes that needed to increase it was their skill level/thinking and the grip of the tyres.
It's classic risk compensation no different to ABS brakes on motorvehicles
and alu frames
and CF frames
and deep rim wheels
and Di2
and dual compound tyres
and tyres
and derailleurs
and on
and on
and ooooonWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
and alu frames
and CF frames
and deep rim wheels
and Di2
and dual compound tyres
and tyres
and derailleurs
and on
and on
and ooooon
Of course, and I'm the first to appreciate technological advances. Alu and then CF frames took off quickly because cyclists always want lighter bikes. You could add SIS and then STI, but both these gave obvious huge advances. It's just with brakes I hardly ever wish for a better system. If you live in the Alps then of course...0 -
and alu frames
and CF frames
and deep rim wheels
and Di2
and dual compound tyres
and tyres
and derailleurs
and on
and on
and ooooon
Of course, and I'm the first to appreciate technological advances. Alu and then CF frames took off quickly because cyclists always want lighter bikes. You could add SIS and then STI, but both these gave obvious huge advances. It's just with brakes I hardly ever wish for a better system. If you live in the Alps then of course...
If you live in the UK, where it rains a lot.....
Doesn't destroy your rims in the middle of winter. Far better modulation. No delay while the rain is cleared from the rim surface.
I don't have any road bikes with rims but the advantages are obvious.Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
I definitely see the advantages for a winter bike, where any disadvantages are outweighed by the postives.Doesn't destroy your rims in the middle of winter. Far better modulation. No delay while the rain is cleared from the rim surface.0 -
This post takes me back to when suspension first appeared on mountain bikes.....
and alu frames
and CF frames
and deep rim wheels
and Di2
and dual compound tyres
and tyres
and derailleurs
and on
and on
and ooooon
This all takes you back to tyres first being used on bikes? How old are you?0 -
Will disc brakes make pro racing more exciting to watch? I doubt it. If anything discs will reduce the difference between a nervous descender like Thibaut Pinot and a fearless descender like Romain Bardet. I personally enjoy the way in which a brave and skilful rider can get away from rivals down a mountain pass.
Will disc brakes make racing safer? Possibly. Discs will help on wet descents but riders will always take risks in the heat of competition or make mistakes no matter what brakes they use. Injuries caused by braking issues in the mountains are far less common and generally less serious than those horrendous pile-ups on flat stages usually caused by someone touching a wheel. I believe the danger of injury from skin coming into contact with a hot disc is real but slight.
Will disc brakes cause logistical problems when changing wheels after damage or punctures? Yes, but I'm sure they will resolve this. Mechanics are concerned about differing axle standards and rotor sizes and it does take a few seconds longer to change a disc wheel.
Will the introduction of disc brakes into the pro peleton boost bike sales and profits? Undoubtedly. Look at carbon wheels, Di2 and aero frames and helmets. The latest tech creates a huge amount of desire among cycle enthusiasts and the demand means manufacturers can charge a premium for it.0 -
Will disc brakes make pro racing more exciting to watch? I doubt it. If anything discs will reduce the difference between a nervous descender like Thibaut Pinot and a fearless descender like Romain Bardet. I personally enjoy the way in which a brave and skilful rider can get away from rivals down a mountain pass.
I'm not so sure. As my driving instructor once told me to remember - brakes stop the wheel, tyres stop the car.Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
For amateurs we'll be gaining slightly better modulation (maybe a lot better than carbon rims in the wet) and longer lasting rims for more weight, less aero and more cash. If we are all on discs then I reckon on balance it's a winner but if I had 2k for a race bike right now and was only concerned with performance a rim braked bike edges it.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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As I was descending the 1000m from Samoens 1600 into Samoens in torrential rain this morning and there was steam coming off the rims I was wishing for discs... I was with my brother who is a keen mountain biker used to reliable stopping in the wet and he was pretty disgusted with the whole thing (could have been the 10km climb at 10% beforehand as well mind). In the dry, or on non-Alpine descents in any conditions, I've never had any real problems with rim brakes, but I'd still prefer hydro discs given the chance.
I don't see the weight thing as being a real issue, it's already pretty straightforwards to build up a disc bike to the UCI weight limit and once they catch on we should get some more road-specific development.
I was playing with a 2015 Defy Advanced SL 0 with Zipp 202 disc rims and Di2 in the shop a month or so ago and it was like looking at the future. I actually think the wheels look nicer without the brake track anyway - just need to find the cash!0 -
[quote="I'm not so sure. As my driving instructor once told me to remember - brakes stop the wheel, tyres stop the car.[/quote]
Exactly. The brake performance will apparently move forward in one giant leap but the performance of the rubber on the ground remains the same. Discs will be fun on smooth wet roads.
Wet rims/brake blocks on wet roads engender greater caution, disc brakes will afford the less skilled greater opportunities for crashes on wet roads.
DD.0 -
It's been said countless times before, but it's the control and predictability that are the real plus points of a disc brake system, not the power. That's what makes them better in the wet, not worse.0
