Disc brakes in the Pro ranks.

Vino'sGhost

Rick Chasey wrote:

I am absolutely one of those people who wants to look like a pro.

I've developed a physique that allows a near enough approximation without being ill, and one of the main reasons I work on my position on the bike (and therefore, the stretching etc) is so I can have as close a position on the bike as they do. I have a proper flat back on my commuter, and I'm working on being able to translate that for rides over an hour on my proper bike.

Now, I hate bike fettling, and I'm terrible at it. I clean my bike after every ride for the sole reason I have to keep it in the flat, and the only thing I hate more than bike fettling is a dirty flat.

But I really really hate it, and I think English bike mechanics are f*cking sh!t. I've tried so many different mechanics through recommendations, and each one are rubbish.

Now, because I am susceptible to the whole pro thing, i will one day probably want disc brakes if they're all riding them. Which means I will need to buy a new bike to fit them, and new wheels. And then I'm stuck with maintaining the f*cking things, which I imagine is more of a ballache than rim brakes. And then I'll have to deal with the sh!t mechanics more often.

And all of that, for the point, as Dish Dash will testify, that I can stop faster than basically anyone because I'm 55kilos, so I've never had an issue with braking. So far *touch wood* I have never crashed whilst braking, and I've never had my brakes not be able to lock up my wheels. I don't have any fear about braking late or hard, and I descend faster than almost everyone on the club run.

So I don't think I really need them, but I will want them, and that's a ballache.

Furthermore, I'm still convinced by my theory that they're only being put on pro bikes because it's an easier way to show off their lighter frames & have room left over to advertise more expensive things to chumps like me. Ergo, drop the weight limit further by a couple of kilos and those disc brakes will disappear in a jiffy. And, tbh, I would benefit much more from that than I would disc brakes. But then, if I go down that road and the pros have discs, I'm not gonna look the part, and I'm as much about vanity as speed.

So that's why I don't want my hero, Boonen, to ride them. Comprende?

LOLOLOL youve got loads of cash go on a bike maintenance course. problem sorted and added benefit you have loads of cool tools
tools become more important the older you get

rick_chasey

a) I don't have loads of cash and b) where do you suppose I maintain my bike and keep all of my new tools in my one bedroom flat?

smithy21

Fuck that tools nonsense.

If I had loads of cash I would buy a new bike every few months. Just throw the old one away when the chain stretches.

m.r.m.

Your chain stretches every few months? You freaking wattage bazooka god you!

Vino'sGhost

Gweeds wrote:

I'm 86kg and 6'1". I need all the stopping help I can get. But I take your points.

I'm 95kg and in the last 15 years the rim brakes have become so good I've never had a problem. Before that they weren't so good. I only have dura ace so others might be different, I ride in the dry and the wet in the Pyrenees and in the steep sometime slippy chilterns and race crits.

I think they look crap

Vino'sGhost

Rick Chasey wrote:

a) I don't have loads of cash and b) where do you suppose I maintain my bike and keep all of my new tools in my one bedroom flat?

Hmmmm when I was working away recently I was put up in a one bed flat. Bike maintenance / cleaning was all done in the bathroom. The bike was regularly stood in the bath and powershowered. ( not recommended if its your own bathroom of course)

andyp

Boonen trolling Rick.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boonen- ... hout-2017/

rick_chasey

I know. It kills me.

I wonder how much he got paid for that?

dish_dash

"They work better, they're easier to control, they lock out less fast than normal brakes. Of course I can control normal brakes but with disc brakes you have so much more feeling. It's the biggest improvement I've seen in my career – I don't know what all the hassle is about."

yorkshireraw

From that Cyclingnews piece:

"The Quick-Step Floors team are carrying out a limited trial themselves in the early part of the 2017 season, with just Boonen and Marcel Kittel racing with disc brakes for the time being. Kittel will make his debut at the Dubai Tour at the end of this month on the Venge."

So when Kittel gets a puncture 10km out on Sprint stage he won't be able to take a wheel from a teammate. Not sure that makes much sense.

rick_chasey

The two big high profile lads.

I smell €€€€

gweeds

Mmmm. Sure looks that way.

timoid.

Et tu Tommeke?

m.r.m.

It is also the two riders whose goals suffer the least from the weight penalty of the Venge disc.

bobmcstuff

M.R.M. wrote:

It is also the two riders whose goals suffer the least from the weight penalty of the Venge disc.

Yeah the CN article gives his weight as 82kg so 6.8kg at the weight limit to 7.8kg is only ~1%.

Plus the fact that based on the GCN weigh ins hardly any pro bikes come in even at 7kg, so the difference is even less (I assume because the mechanics don't want to get too close to the limit).

yorkshireraw

bobmcstuff wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

It is also the two riders whose goals suffer the least from the weight penalty of the Venge disc.

Yeah the CN article gives his weight as 82kg so 6.8kg at the weight limit to 7.8kg is only ~1%.

Plus the fact that based on the GCN weigh ins hardly any pro bikes come in even at 7kg, so the difference is even less (I assume because the mechanics don't want to get too close to the limit).

they're often weighing bikes on flatter days though aren't they - so deeper rims, aero not climber bikes etc.

Be interesting to see what Chaves Addict or Quintana's Ultimate SLX weigh on a mountain stage.

gweeds

Bang on 6.8kg I'd imagine.....right on the nail

rick_chasey

Always find this incredible.

My bike weights 7 kilos (had it actually weighed in a shop) with very average wheels and it cost £1600 6 years ago.

bobmcstuff

YorkshireRaw wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

It is also the two riders whose goals suffer the least from the weight penalty of the Venge disc.

Yeah the CN article gives his weight as 82kg so 6.8kg at the weight limit to 7.8kg is only ~1%.

Plus the fact that based on the GCN weigh ins hardly any pro bikes come in even at 7kg, so the difference is even less (I assume because the mechanics don't want to get too close to the limit).

they're often weighing bikes on flatter days though aren't they - so deeper rims, aero not climber bikes etc.

Be interesting to see what Chaves Addict or Quintana's Ultimate SLX weigh on a mountain stage.

No, not always - They did look at some shallow rim climbing bikes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMsgzD-JFQs Dowsett at the Dubai tour - was annoyed at the weight of his bike, and went to get his light climbing bike from the team truck, which turned out to be just over 7kg. I guess Dowsett is quite tall but it's still easily possible to build a bike like that to 6.8kg.

There's a couple of other videos they've done but I can't be bothered to go back through.

My feeling from seeing a few of these is that the mechanics don't generally push the weight much under 7kg, it only takes one commissaire with a slightly different scale to yours and it's a load of faff you don't need. Also it depends when the mechanics are weighing and if some peripherals get added on afterwards (e.g., computers and mounts).

yorkshireraw

bobmcstuff wrote:

YorkshireRaw wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

It is also the two riders whose goals suffer the least from the weight penalty of the Venge disc.

Yeah the CN article gives his weight as 82kg so 6.8kg at the weight limit to 7.8kg is only ~1%.

Plus the fact that based on the GCN weigh ins hardly any pro bikes come in even at 7kg, so the difference is even less (I assume because the mechanics don't want to get too close to the limit).

they're often weighing bikes on flatter days though aren't they - so deeper rims, aero not climber bikes etc.

Be interesting to see what Chaves Addict or Quintana's Ultimate SLX weigh on a mountain stage.

No, not always - They did look at some shallow rim climbing bikes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMsgzD-JFQs Dowsett at the Dubai tour - was annoyed at the weight of his bike, and went to get his light climbing bike from the team truck, which turned out to be just over 7kg. I guess Dowsett is quite tall but it's still easily possible to build a bike like that to 6.8kg.

There's a couple of other videos they've done but I can't be bothered to go back through.

My feeling from seeing a few of these is that the mechanics don't generally push the weight much under 7kg, it only takes one commissaire with a slightly different scale to yours and it's a load of faff you don't need. Also it depends when the mechanics are weighing and if some peripherals get added on afterwards (e.g., computers and mounts).

All good points. And as an old boy in the local CC used to say - if you want to save a couple of hundred grams of weight, go for a sh**t before you set off...

yorkshireraw

Rick Chasey wrote:

Always find this incredible.

My bike weights 7 kilos (had it actually weighed in a shop) with very average wheels and it cost £1600 6 years ago.

They probably have to add some weight to bikes for the real small chaps.

gweeds

Without question. My Canyon Ultimate is 6.6kg and thats a large running Ultegra Di2 and pedals etc. without any real weight saving measures.

Ber Nard

I've always assumed the mechanics don't want to reveal the true weight of the bikes so fatten them up a bit when the press want to have a sniff around.

bobmcstuff

Ber Nard wrote:

I've always assumed the mechanics don't want to reveal the true weight of the bikes so fatten them up a bit when the press want to have a sniff around.

Well most of them they're literally taking the bikes off pros who are fully kitted up waiting to go, so I don't really think that's the case. If you listen to most of the pros they say when asked to guess that their bikes are going to be bang on 6.8 - then they turn out to be 7+, some of the aero ones come in at 7.8.

Personally I think the most likely explanation is the mechanics don't want to get too close to the limit so aim for ~7kg rather than ~6.8 (since 200 grams makes essentially b*gger all difference).

smoggysteve

Friend of mine brought up a valid point.

If it is considered dangerous to have people riding both rim and disc brakes in the same race then what happens in the lower cats? Do you Allow both? Do you ban discs or ban rim brakes?

1 is potentially dangerous. Not allowing discs will be argued about forever. While not allowing rim brakes could price out beginner racers who can't afford to go out and buy a new bike just for the Discs. A lot of people compete on a budget and may not be able even enter.

rick_chasey

That argument is rubbish.

Reminds me of the arguments motorists used to have when cars started moving from drum brakes to disc brakes.

gweeds

Blimey drum brakes. That takes me back.

smoggysteve

Rick Chasey wrote:

That argument is rubbish.

Reminds me of the arguments motorists used to have when cars started moving from drum brakes to disc brakes.

How is it rubbish if you risk people colliding cos one is braking differently to another? Racing needs to be safe and if you say disc brakes offer superior braking you are saying as well rims are inferior. Is there not a danger of it causing an issue in races with lots of sharp corners and heavy braking?

rick_chasey

SmoggySteve wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

That argument is rubbish.

Reminds me of the arguments motorists used to have when cars started moving from drum brakes to disc brakes.

How is it rubbish if you risk people colliding cos one is braking differently to another? Racing needs to be safe and if you say disc brakes offer superior braking you are saying as well rims are inferior. Is there not a danger of it causing an issue in races with lots of sharp corners and heavy braking?

Not sure you get the physics behind braking.

My braking distance as a 55kilo rider is a lot lot less than that of a 80 kilo rider, regardless of what i'm using to brake (within reason - ice blocks against my rims won't do much).

Weight is easily the biggest impact on how fast you slow down.

smoggysteve

Rick Chasey wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

That argument is rubbish.

Reminds me of the arguments motorists used to have when cars started moving from drum brakes to disc brakes.

How is it rubbish if you risk people colliding cos one is braking differently to another? Racing needs to be safe and if you say disc brakes offer superior braking you are saying as well rims are inferior. Is there not a danger of it causing an issue in races with lots of sharp corners and heavy braking?

Not sure you get the physics behind braking.

My braking distance as a 55kilo rider is a lot lot less than that of a 80 kilo rider, regardless of what i'm using to brake (within reason - ice blocks against my rims won't do much).

Weight is easily the biggest impact on how fast you slow down.

So your saying a light rider on rim brakes will outbrake a heavy rider on disc brakes?