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Immediately after Sunak announced his Windsor Framework he gained some praise. But not for long. The party continued to pull itself apart - Spaffer saying he couldn't support the deal, then PartyGate being focused on again, then Mancock’s messages rubbishing Sunak’s EOTHO scheme.Stevo_666 said:
Thats a matter of opinion. I'm sure lefties will say he exhibited good judgment.pinkbikini said:
The optics didn’t end up being at all bad. Therefore Starmer exhibited good judgement. I think that’s the logical conclusion.Stevo_666 said:
You've already done it yourself by saying that you genuinely can't see any problem.rick_chasey said:
Apparently not. Spell it out like I’m stupid.Stevo_666 said:
I thought you were a sharp political operator?rick_chasey said:
No one has explained it on the thread and I’ve read up on it and I can only see it making his judgement better?Stevo_666 said:
Read the posts above. Or DYOR.rick_chasey said:
Can someone please explain why this makes people question his judgment as I really don’t understand.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.
I genuinely can’t see it.
Could be too early to tell, of course…
I’m amused by the concern for Starmer’s reputation.
There’s your ‘leftie’ optic.
What’s your view on what Starmer did that will present a bad optic?0 -
That’s a fair point, but you have to base the judgement on someone’s honesty and integrity.kingstongraham said:Imagine if she'd gone for a cushy job with the Tories after doing that report.
It’s not as if she was facilitating an £800k loan to a Prime Minister prior to being appointed chairman of the BBC, for example.0 -
Are we suggesting Chief of Staff is a cushy job now? She's taking a pay cut and I can't imagine it's 9-5 Mon-Fri.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The extent of the mistake seems to be that right wing journalists have an opportunity to say it was a mistake“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Here we go. How shifty does this look?
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I thought Johnson was so pleased with Gray's report that he claimed it exonerated him. I think at the time people thought she'd pulled her punches. Now it's a 'stitch up'. You'd have to be 30p Lee levels of thick to take this seriously.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I never understand why politicians will never just say that they can't answer a question and give a reason.kingstongraham said:Here we go. How shifty does this look?
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TheBigBean said:
I never understand why politicians will never just say that they can't answer a question and give a reason.kingstongraham said:Here we go. How shifty does this look?
Yup - however you do it, dodging the question looks suspicious, though I can understand why politicians are wary of 'gotcha' questions.0 -
Or alternatively just answer the question. Or if you are obviously going to be asked questions where you think the answer is going to be too awkward, don't make the appointment.TheBigBean said:
I never understand why politicians will never just say that they can't answer a question and give a reason.kingstongraham said:Here we go. How shifty does this look?
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My guess would be that he doesn't the know the date and thinks saying that would make him look foolish.kingstongraham said:
Or alternatively just answer the question. Or if you are obviously going to be asked questions where you think the answer is going to be too awkward, don't make the appointment.TheBigBean said:
I never understand why politicians will never just say that they can't answer a question and give a reason.kingstongraham said:Here we go. How shifty does this look?
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TheBigBean said:
My guess would be that he doesn't the know the date and thinks saying that would make him look foolish.kingstongraham said:
Or alternatively just answer the question. Or if you are obviously going to be asked questions where you think the answer is going to be too awkward, don't make the appointment.TheBigBean said:
I never understand why politicians will never just say that they can't answer a question and give a reason.kingstongraham said:Here we go. How shifty does this look?
If it's after her Partygate report, and he can say so for certain, he should. If it's before her report, it's more problematic.0 -
It's very reminiscent of Johnson refusing to say whether he was at any of the gatherings, as that would be dealt with by Sue Gray in her report.TheBigBean said:
My guess would be that he doesn't the know the date and thinks saying that would make him look foolish.kingstongraham said:
Or alternatively just answer the question. Or if you are obviously going to be asked questions where you think the answer is going to be too awkward, don't make the appointment.TheBigBean said:
I never understand why politicians will never just say that they can't answer a question and give a reason.kingstongraham said:Here we go. How shifty does this look?
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It's such a non-issue that a request for the matter to be scrutinised by parliament has been granted. Nothing to see here, clearly...
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/06/sue-gray-labour-appointment-keir-starmer-latest-news-rishi-sunak/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Perhaps the Sue Gray report needs to be redone to avoid the possibility of bias. I'm sure the Conservatives won't mind.0
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Isn't the Conservative majority privileges committee doing something along those lines?TheBigBean said:Perhaps the Sue Gray report needs to be redone to avoid the possibility of bias. I'm sure the Conservatives won't mind.
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Stevo_666 said:
It's such a non-issue that a request for the matter to be scrutinised by parliament has been granted. Nothing to see here, clearly...
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/06/sue-gray-labour-appointment-keir-starmer-latest-news-rishi-sunak/
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Johnson loyalists 😂.
Way to lash yourself to a sinking ship.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
This sounds like a reasonable (Guardian) summary of the UQJeremy Quin, the Cabinet Office minister, used his opening statement to set out the obligations in civil servants like Sue Gray, and it seems clear that the rule about getting clearance from the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments (Acoba) before announcing a job like this has not been met. (See 3.39pm.) Gray was also meant to get clearance before having contact with a senior figure from the opposition. She is the one who seems to have broken the rules, not Keir Starmer, but Labour was clearly on the defensive, and mostly it turned into a “clobber Starmer” session.
That said, there was some absurd overstatement. The country is not facing a “constitutional crisis”, as the Tory MP Peter Bone claimed. (See 4.21pm.) If Gray had just quietly quit her job, waited a few weeks, contacted Acoba and then made the announcement, it would have been much harder for anyone to object. As Alex Cunningham pointed out, there would be precedent for that. (See 4.15pm.) Another Labour MP, Barry Sheerman, said he been told by a Tory MP that the outrage was orchestrated. (See 4.03pm.) That sounded right.
But the failure of Labour to explain when Gray was first approached gave the Tory critique a considerable boost, and it remains unclear why the opposition has not been able to provide a credible answer. One theory was that it actually suited Labour to keep this row going because, when it was a story about Boris Johnson supposedly being “framed” for Partygate, it helped Labour. A UQ on this would have reminded anyone paying attention a) why they disliked the former PM so much and b) that some Tory MPs are unhinged. But it ended up as a UQ about Starmer instead, and it did leave the impression that Labour has something to hide.0 -
Loving the Tory WhatsApp messages doing the rounds. Tim Loughton gently suggesting to his colleagues that maybe screeching about Partygate is not a good Idea. So at least one of them has a brain.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
Loving the Tory WhatsApp messages doing the rounds. Tim Loughton gently suggesting to his colleagues that maybe screeching about Partygate is not a good Idea. So at least one of them has a brain.
If it's not Oakeshotte, who's doing the leaking now?0 -
End to end encryption is only useful if one of the ends isn't a bell.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono2 -
Reading the latest Graun piece does make it feel that Johnson's allies are just using this as an excuse to rewrite history, as they are trying to do with much of the covid story, to make themselves out as the unblemished heroes.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/06/tory-mps-launch-bid-to-stop-labours-unprecedented-hiring-of-sue-gray
Given their backgrounds, it seems unlikely that either Starmer or Gray would have made a serious breach of protocol. In the meantime, it's keeping Johnson in the headlines, and Sunak cowering in some corner hoping it'll all blow over.
Anyone remember Northern Ireland now? A week really is a long time in politics.0 -
So here’s a thought.briantrumpet said:Reading the latest Graun piece does make it feel that Johnson's allies are just using this as an excuse to rewrite history, as they are trying to do with much of the covid story, to make themselves out as the unblemished heroes.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/06/tory-mps-launch-bid-to-stop-labours-unprecedented-hiring-of-sue-gray
Given their backgrounds, it seems unlikely that either Starmer or Gray would have made a serious breach of protocol. In the meantime, it's keeping Johnson in the headlines, and Sunak cowering in some corner hoping it'll all blow over.
Anyone remember Northern Ireland now? A week really is a long time in politics.
The biggest threat to NI going through is the Conservative Party. Maybe we’re now in the absurd situation that distracting the Tories from Tory policy is the real objective.0 -
Haven't we been in that situation since 2017?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
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FFS, Starmer. Stop being so spineless. Open goal, and you're sitting on the sidelines (if not the fence).
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It's an argument with no winners so better to watch from the sidelines.briantrumpet said:FFS, Starmer. Stop being so spineless. Open goal, and you're sitting on the sidelines (if not the fence).
I'm still intrigued how many people on this thread can't see how poor the language was in the tweet0 -
Was it similar to Germany in the 1930s?TheBigBean said:
It's an argument with no winners so better to watch from the sidelines.briantrumpet said:FFS, Starmer. Stop being so spineless. Open goal, and you're sitting on the sidelines (if not the fence).
I'm still intrigued how many people on this thread can't see how poor the language was in the tweet0 -
Same here. Especially after it was reported that Linker himself privately admitted the language in his tweet was OTT.TheBigBean said:
It's an argument with no winners so better to watch from the sidelines.briantrumpet said:FFS, Starmer. Stop being so spineless. Open goal, and you're sitting on the sidelines (if not the fence).
I'm still intrigued how many people on this thread can't see how poor the language was in the tweet"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
More like 16 year olds discussing politics. "You're such a fascist" etcPross said:
Was it similar to Germany in the 1930s?TheBigBean said:
It's an argument with no winners so better to watch from the sidelines.briantrumpet said:FFS, Starmer. Stop being so spineless. Open goal, and you're sitting on the sidelines (if not the fence).
I'm still intrigued how many people on this thread can't see how poor the language was in the tweet
But I know you are joking0
