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I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.0 -
On the plus side it did generate a hilarious interview with Alexander Stafford on Today this morning. Worth it for that alone.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Hiring a highly respected and impartial civil servant?surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.
Or is the above not true? As I said, tying in knots.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I think it might be quite clever. It gets the Tories shouting about lockdown parties when Sunak is trying to be Mr Sensible. Johnson is also attacking the Windsor Framework for a bit more blue on blue nonsense.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Initially I agreed, but I can't see much downside for Starmer.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.0 -
Isn't she just a very experienced civil service operator, which is exactly what he needs?
Cameron hired an ex-labour guy to do the same. BoJo did too (less effectively). Blair did too.0 -
it just looks wrong and damages his reputation as a safe pair of handsJezyboy said:
Initially I agreed, but I can't see much downside for Starmer.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.0 -
How? She's about as safe a pair of hands as you can get.surrey_commuter said:
it just looks wrong and damages his reputation as a safe pair of handsJezyboy said:
Initially I agreed, but I can't see much downside for Starmer.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.0 -
While rabid Tories are spewing out conspiracy theories, support for the appointment from an unexpected source:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/03/labour-have-pulled-masterstroke-hiring-sue-gray/The fact that so many senior Conservatives are venting their fury at Gray’s “betrayal” presents a risk to the party of government. Voters are entitled to ask what devastating secrets Gray is taking with her as she leaves the Cabinet office and joins Starmer’s outfit. If such secrets exist, shouldn’t they have been revealed by now? And if Gray possesses them, why, given her now blatant party partisanship, has she not used them before now?
No, far better for the Government to wish Sue Gray well in her new job, thank her for her service and carry on with governing, as if the departure of a senior civil servant to work for political opposition is a perfectly normal event. Because it is. Or it should be. And if nobody saw this coming, there could hardly be a better tribute to Gray’s professionalism and commitment to public service.0 -
The "EVERY" bit here suggests how well baked-in Labour's advantage is. Johnson is probably helping them now too, given that his 'reboot' seems to involve even more blatant lying, and voters were only just getting over the trauma of Johnson 1: he's cast a toxic pall over Sunak's modest achievement.
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If she wanted to bury the Tories she’d have done it already.briantrumpet said:While rabid Tories are spewing out conspiracy theories, support for the appointment from an unexpected source:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/03/labour-have-pulled-masterstroke-hiring-sue-gray/The fact that so many senior Conservatives are venting their fury at Gray’s “betrayal” presents a risk to the party of government. Voters are entitled to ask what devastating secrets Gray is taking with her as she leaves the Cabinet office and joins Starmer’s outfit. If such secrets exist, shouldn’t they have been revealed by now? And if Gray possesses them, why, given her now blatant party partisanship, has she not used them before now?
No, far better for the Government to wish Sue Gray well in her new job, thank her for her service and carry on with governing, as if the departure of a senior civil servant to work for political opposition is a perfectly normal event. Because it is. Or it should be. And if nobody saw this coming, there could hardly be a better tribute to Gray’s professionalism and commitment to public service.0 -
Pffft. I think it's a canny trap that targets Johnson's egotism. And it's worked. They should have ignored it but they couldn't help themselves.surrey_commuter said:
it just looks wrong and damages his reputation as a safe pair of handsJezyboy said:
Initially I agreed, but I can't see much downside for Starmer.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I thought earlier in the week that the Tories had been 4-0 down but Sunak clawed a goal back just before half time.
Today feels like the offside flag went up late.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
This sheds some light. Various ministers were jostling to hire Grey for their department when Simon Case - the guy who got bumped from the original Partygate investigation because one of the parties happened in his office - blocked her appointment.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It is a bit naive of him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.0 -
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
He only has two supporters prepared to be quoted.rjsterry said:
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.
A few months ago he failed to get on the ballot0 -
The main point of debate is about Starmers judgment, not about Boris. I think Brian let his rabid anti Boris feelings take him off on a tangent.rjsterry said:
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
If you say so. I think Starmer's capitalised on the situation. She would have very likely been working for him anyway in a few months time. Now Johnson is all over the front pages again just when Sunak had something positive to talk about.Stevo_666 said:
The main point of debate is about Starmers judgment, not about Boris. I think Brian let his rabid anti Boris feelings take him off on a tangent.rjsterry said:
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
If you say so. I'm not sure that making a major appointment which calls into question your judgment was done mainly because it was thought to be a good day to bury good news.rjsterry said:
If you say so. I think Starmer's capitalised on the situation. She would have very likely been working for him anyway in a few months time. Now Johnson is all over the front pages again just when Sunak had something positive to talk about.Stevo_666 said:
The main point of debate is about Starmers judgment, not about Boris. I think Brian let his rabid anti Boris feelings take him off on a tangent.rjsterry said:
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
The main point of debate is about Starmers judgment, not about Boris. I think Brian let his rabid anti Boris feelings take him off on a tangent.rjsterry said:
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.
Yes, apologies for hating the lazy, unprincipled, law-breaking liar, but it wasn't a tangent: in one fell swoop he's got himself a CoS who, according to Tories (well, untill yesterday) is an extremely capable and principled woman, and at the same time brought Johnson's serial lying and law-breaking back into the headlines. Savvy, rather than naïve, I'd say.0 -
I rest my case about your rabid feelings.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The main point of debate is about Starmers judgment, not about Boris. I think Brian let his rabid anti Boris feelings take him off on a tangent.rjsterry said:
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.
Yes, apologies for hating the lazy, unprincipled, law-breaking liar, but it wasn't a tangent: in one fell swoop he's got himself a CoS who, according to Tories (well, untill yesterday) is an extremely capable and principled woman, and at the same time brought Johnson's serial lying and law-breaking back into the headlines. Savvy, rather than naïve, I'd say.
Getting back on topic, what do you think about Starmers judgment in this case?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not only a principled woman, but one that was in demand by other Ministers, Kimi Badenoch had wanted Sue Gray to be her Permanent Secretary, but that move was vetoed by Simon Casebriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The main point of debate is about Starmers judgment, not about Boris. I think Brian let his rabid anti Boris feelings take him off on a tangent.rjsterry said:
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.
Yes, apologies for hating the lazy, unprincipled, law-breaking liar, but it wasn't a tangent: in one fell swoop he's got himself a CoS who, according to Tories (well, untill yesterday) is an extremely capable and principled woman, and at the same time brought Johnson's serial lying and law-breaking back into the headlines. Savvy, rather than naïve, I'd say.
https://express.co.uk/news/politics/1742083/boris-johnson-sue-gray-keir-starmer-chief-of-staff0 -
Clearly quite good. He’s hiring a very capable individual by all accounts.Stevo_666 said:
I rest my case about your rabid feelings.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The main point of debate is about Starmers judgment, not about Boris. I think Brian let his rabid anti Boris feelings take him off on a tangent.rjsterry said:
He'd clearly like to be and lots of his colleagues clearly agree. And getting it into the news only reminds everyone about last year, which helps Starmer. As posted above, she's that good that any minister or shadow cabinet would want to hire her. Badenoch was trying to hire her on Gove's recommendation but Simon Case blocked it. Sunak didn't intervene and now they've lost her from the Civil Service altogether, which is a bit of a f***-up.Stevo_666 said:
So what? That's not the point and Johnson isn't front bench any more.briantrumpet said:
It got Johnson and his lying & lawbreaking back in the headlines.Stevo_666 said:
It is a bit naiveof him isn't it.surrey_commuter said:
I could not think less of the Boris or his supporters but this makes me question Starmer's judgementJezyboy said:
I'm not entirely sure it matters?kingstongraham said:
Do you think she'll ever do the job?Jezyboy said:The above is why it's maybe not such a bad move.
If the Conservatives kick up a fuss about the report being a stitch up...it's a really pathetic look. I think given the toothless nature of the report, they would do well to keep quiet.
It might play well to their base, but they really need to start growing the base quickly.
Yes, apologies for hating the lazy, unprincipled, law-breaking liar, but it wasn't a tangent: in one fell swoop he's got himself a CoS who, according to Tories (well, untill yesterday) is an extremely capable and principled woman, and at the same time brought Johnson's serial lying and law-breaking back into the headlines. Savvy, rather than naïve, I'd say.
Getting back on topic, what do you think about Strmers judgment in this case?0 -
Given that you seem to be capable at your job based on what you say Stevo…
Has your political opinion ever stopped you being capable?0 -
I'm really not sure why Wrecker Frost tweets twaddle, unless he actually enjoys the ratio.
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I think the Sue Gray appointment by Starmer is a good one - he’s got a very capable person into an important role.
For the few on here who think think it’s naive or shows poor judgement, that largely depends on the consequences. What consequences are you foreseeing that would make this a display of poor judgement?0 -
Surprise reading of the day: the Daily Express thinks the Gray appointment is a very smart one.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1742083/boris-johnson-sue-gray-keir-starmer-chief-of-staff
“This is great news for Boris, they cannot push ahead with the inquiry,” one Tory MP claimed.
Another source said: “The optics of it look terrible for Starmer and Gray.”
That may be the case but if Starmer is preparing for power he could not have hoped to have made a better appointment.
It was certainly worth a few bad headlines.0
