Join the Labour Party and save your country!

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers

The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.

Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.

Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.

I’m not sure you really understand how collective action works.

Now now, don't be patronising again. I know how it works, just don't agree with strike action - not that it has made in a difference in this case.

If it doesn’t inconvenience people then there’s less pressure, right?

Pross

pangolin said:

Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.

No, it’s only The Guardian saying it so the source is in doubt. Do keep up at the back!

TheBigBean

pangolin said:

Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.

It depends which aspects of the job you are valuing. I think the border force and UK visas and immigration are an embarrassment to the country, but much of the blame for this sits with the government.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers

The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.

Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.

Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.

Employees' contract is with the employer not the public. It's the employer that has the responsibility to their customers, not the employees. Which you know. Very much enjoying the nonsense being put out to defend a lost cause.

I know whom has a contract with who. Striking makes life difficult for many and directly affects the livelihood of many others, yet somehow its seen as OK. Sorry, that's not OK.

Not sure which you think is a lost cause, as hopefully the unions will run out money soon
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/30/unions-struggling-funding-costly-strikes/

🤣

I mean if affecting people's livelihoods is not allowed then there's a long queue before we get to the RMT or PCS.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers

The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.

Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.

Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.

I’m not sure you really understand how collective action works.

Now now, don't be patronising again. I know how it works, just don't agree with strike action - not that it has made in a difference in this case.

If it doesn’t inconvenience people then there’s less pressure, right?

Doesn't make it right in my view.

If Mick Lynch and his union baron chums took hostages and threatened to shoot them one by one unless the government agreed to their demands, that would certainly increase the pressure, wouldn't it...(Extreme example to make a point)

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers

The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.

Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.

Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.

Employees' contract is with the employer not the public. It's the employer that has the responsibility to their customers, not the employees. Which you know. Very much enjoying the nonsense being put out to defend a lost cause.

I know whom has a contract with who. Striking makes life difficult for many and directly affects the livelihood of many others, yet somehow its seen as OK. Sorry, that's not OK.

Not sure which you think is a lost cause, as hopefully the unions will run out money soon
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/30/unions-struggling-funding-costly-strikes/

🤣

I mean if affecting people's livelihoods is not allowed then there's a long queue before we get to the RMT or PCS.

Let's see who is the lost cause then as it plays out over the next few months. Already admissions that the nurses will have to back down reported in the news, for example.

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.

If you believe the Guardian, sure. I'm sure you do.

tailwindhome

Tory incompetence should be in the Tory incompetence thread.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

pangolin said:

Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.

It depends which aspects of the job you are valuing. I think the border force and UK visas and immigration are an embarrassment to the country, but much of the blame for this sits with the government.

I think they’re largely doing what they’re told to do.

tailwindhome

That everyone was getting a pay rise due to labour scarcity after Brexit soon evaporated when labour became scarce and workers asked for a pay rise

skyblueamateur

tailwindhome said:

That everyone was getting a pay rise due to labour scarcity after Brexit soon evaporated when labour became scarce and workers asked for a pay rise

The working class should be happy to have a job and be grateful for what they get. If they don’t like it, do something else.

tailwindhome

skyblueamateur said:

tailwindhome said:

That everyone was getting a pay rise due to labour scarcity after Brexit soon evaporated when labour became scarce and workers asked for a pay rise

The working class should be happy to have a job and be grateful for what they get. If they don’t like it, do something else.

They can complain, so long as no-one notices
And if no-one notices it's proof they shouldn't complain

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.

If you believe the Guardian, sure. I'm sure you do.

Have you got any evidence to suggest their claims are wrong?

skyblueamateur

tailwindhome said:

skyblueamateur said:

tailwindhome said:

That everyone was getting a pay rise due to labour scarcity after Brexit soon evaporated when labour became scarce and workers asked for a pay rise

The working class should be happy to have a job and be grateful for what they get. If they don’t like it, do something else.

They can complain, so long as no-one notices
And if no-one notices it's proof they shouldn't complain

Exactly. Who needs nurses, border control, teachers, rail workers etc.

Need to get themselves a proper profession or stop whinging and accept their 12 years of below inflation ‘pay rises’.

The nerve of them……

tailwindhome

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

skyblueamateur

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

We need the ‘best and brightest’ bankers. We’ll take anyone to do nursing, teaching and protecting our borders though.

pblakeney

skyblueamateur said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

We need the ‘best and brightest’ bankers. We’ll take anyone to do nursing, teaching and protecting our borders though.

Those taking the decisions have private healthcare, private schools and security though so why should they care? #selfishtwats

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.

If you believe the Guardian, sure. I'm sure you do.

Have you got any evidence to suggest their claims are wrong?

Same as the Telegraph link then?

Stevo_666

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.

If you believe the Guardian, sure. I'm sure you do.

Have you got any evidence to suggest their claims are wrong?

Same as the Telegraph link then?

Noone is disputing the claims in the Telegraph link.

skyblueamateur

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

There’s 133,000 vacancies in the NHS. That would suggest the current rate is too low. Above inflation pay rises all round 👍

Stevo_666

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

There’s 133,000 vacancies in the NHS. That would suggest the current rate is too low. Above inflation pay rises all round 👍

I don't pretend to be an expert on market rates for salaries in that sector, unlike some. But just for info, inflation is not 19%

tailwindhome

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

If it's all about market rates then the government shouldn't infere in the free operation of the market by seeking to prevent employees temporarily withdrawing their labour. We should see what a train driver or nurse is worth

skyblueamateur

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

There’s 133,000 vacancies in the NHS. That would suggest the current rate is too low. Above inflation pay rises all round 👍

I don't pretend to be an expert on market rates for salaries in that sector, unlike some. But just for info, inflation is not 19%

😂

Just for info, I never said inflation was 19%. Can you show me evidence where I did? I said ‘above inflation pay rises’

Happy new year pal 👍

Stevo_666

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

There’s 133,000 vacancies in the NHS. That would suggest the current rate is too low. Above inflation pay rises all round 👍

I don't pretend to be an expert on market rates for salaries in that sector, unlike some. But just for info, inflation is not 19%

😂

Just for info, I never said inflation was 19%. Can you show me evidence where I did? I said ‘above inflation pay rises’

Happy new year pal 👍

It's what they're asking for. Realistic?

HNY to you too.

skyblueamateur

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

There’s 133,000 vacancies in the NHS. That would suggest the current rate is too low. Above inflation pay rises all round 👍

I don't pretend to be an expert on market rates for salaries in that sector, unlike some. But just for info, inflation is not 19%

😂

Just for info, I never said inflation was 19%. Can you show me evidence where I did? I said ‘above inflation pay rises’

Happy new year pal 👍

It's what they're asking for. Realistic?

HNY to you too.

Probably not , no but if that is the market rate then so be it surely?

Or is it the case that saying ‘market rate dictates’ is far too binary for nuanced negotiations?

Bit of compromise (imo more so on the nurses side) is needed by both the unions and the government.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

There’s 133,000 vacancies in the NHS. That would suggest the current rate is too low. Above inflation pay rises all round 👍

I don't pretend to be an expert on market rates for salaries in that sector, unlike some. But just for info, inflation is not 19%

😂

Just for info, I never said inflation was 19%. Can you show me evidence where I did? I said ‘above inflation pay rises’

Happy new year pal 👍

It's what they're asking for. Realistic?

HNY to you too.

What if they were asking for the real wage equivalent of 2010 wages?

(Same thing)

tailwindhome

I don't know. I got 29% so 19% seems modest.

Stevo_666

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

There’s 133,000 vacancies in the NHS. That would suggest the current rate is too low. Above inflation pay rises all round 👍

I don't pretend to be an expert on market rates for salaries in that sector, unlike some. But just for info, inflation is not 19%

😂

Just for info, I never said inflation was 19%. Can you show me evidence where I did? I said ‘above inflation pay rises’

Happy new year pal 👍

It's what they're asking for. Realistic?

HNY to you too.

Probably not , no but if that is the market rate then so be it surely?

Or is it the case that saying ‘market rate dictates’ is far too binary for nuanced negotiations?

Bit of compromise (imo more so on the nurses side) is needed by both the unions and the government.

Sure, it will be all about compromise but their going in position is widely seen as unrealistic - even Labour has publicly stated that the nurses' pay demand is 'not affordable'.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Worth remembering the Tory Party removed the cap on bankers' bonuses, so bankers wouldn't permanently withdraw their labour in search of more money, but plan to change the rules so other worker can't withdraw their labour temporarily in search of more money

Game's rigged

It's all about market rates. Seems some workers have optimistic ideas about what their market rate is.

There’s 133,000 vacancies in the NHS. That would suggest the current rate is too low. Above inflation pay rises all round 👍

I don't pretend to be an expert on market rates for salaries in that sector, unlike some. But just for info, inflation is not 19%

😂

Just for info, I never said inflation was 19%. Can you show me evidence where I did? I said ‘above inflation pay rises’

Happy new year pal 👍

It's what they're asking for. Realistic?

HNY to you too.

What if they were asking for the real wage equivalent of 2010 wages?

(Same thing)

It would be nice if many peoples salaries (including my own) had kept pace with inflation recently, but you don't always get what you want.