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Follow up from the discussion on border force strike being an improvement:
As predicted, they just waved everyone through.
Only 9 people detained.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/31/just-nine-passengers-detained-at-heathrow-during-border-force-strike?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherJust nine people were stopped at passport control and held at Heathrow over three strike days from 23 to 25 December, compared with 189 people over the same three days in 2021 – a 95% drop.
I’d be more interested in the numbers who are refused entry etc. But plainly the army had different priorities than the border force.0 -
Quelle surprise!rick_chasey said:Follow up from the discussion on border force strike being an improvement:
As predicted, they just waved everyone through.
Only 9 people detained.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/31/just-nine-passengers-detained-at-heathrow-during-border-force-strike?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherJust nine people were stopped at passport control and held at Heathrow over three strike days from 23 to 25 December, compared with 189 people over the same three days in 2021 – a 95% drop.
I’d be more interested in the numbers who are refused entry etc. But plainly the army had different priorities than the border force.
Well done on highlighting the confirmation that nobody should have needed.
‘Should’ doing a lot of heavy lifting.
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Tbf I do recognise most people on here don’t actually like empirical evidence to underpin the discussion0
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Been a bad week for some right wing commentators who talk tough on immigration. They’ve been caught out cheerleading for just waving people into the country and for a geezer who is under suspicion of being a people trafficker.
Would be funny if the issues weren’t so serious.0 -
I wouldn't hold your breath on them working out the flaws in their positions.skyblueamateur said:Been a bad week for some right wing commentators who talk tough on immigration. They’ve been caught out cheerleading for just waving people into the country and for a geezer who is under suspicion of being a people trafficker.
Would be funny if the issues weren’t so serious.0 -
I can't put my finger on exactly why, but half&half football scarves are very New Labourbriantrumpet said:pblakeney said:
Completely deluded.kingstongraham said:
Run up to the good Friday agreement referendum, the letter is from Alistair Campbell suggesting a goodwill football match in Belfast between Rangers and Celtic. With Rangers in green and white hoops, Celtic in blue.briantrumpet said:tailwindhome said:This man was Tony Blair's key advisor
Illegible to my eyes... BR's compression reduces hosted images to 335 pixels.
It didn't go any further 😕
He's a complete footballhead, it seems.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Sounds like the best way that Border Force can inconvenience the travelling public and make a point about their pay demands is to go back to work
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Funny that should run in the Guardian...rick_chasey said:Follow up from the discussion on border force strike being an improvement:
As predicted, they just waved everyone through.
Only 9 people detained.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/31/just-nine-passengers-detained-at-heathrow-during-border-force-strike?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherJust nine people were stopped at passport control and held at Heathrow over three strike days from 23 to 25 December, compared with 189 people over the same three days in 2021 – a 95% drop.
I’d be more interested in the numbers who are refused entry etc. But plainly the army had different priorities than the border force."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Possible bias?
Given my link to the original point t was criticised for being from the Telegraph (although it was reported elsewhere)."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Anyhow, not sure what the problem is. Thought you wanted to let everyone in regardless?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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Funny how you asked for evidence of the obvious and now the evidence is available you are moaning about the source. I’d have thought actual stats are more relevant than whether Trevor from Jeddah got through quickly and got smiled at by the sailor boys on passport control.Stevo_666 said:
Funny that should run in the Guardian...rick_chasey said:Follow up from the discussion on border force strike being an improvement:
As predicted, they just waved everyone through.
Only 9 people detained.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/31/just-nine-passengers-detained-at-heathrow-during-border-force-strike?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherJust nine people were stopped at passport control and held at Heathrow over three strike days from 23 to 25 December, compared with 189 people over the same three days in 2021 – a 95% drop.
I’d be more interested in the numbers who are refused entry etc. But plainly the army had different priorities than the border force.0 -
While I'm sure the nototiously unbiased Guardian can torture figures or take things out of context just as well as you can, if you believe what the article is claiming then surely it must please you that more people are being allowed in?rick_chasey said:
When did I say it was a problem? I just thought the discussion on here was around whether the army was indeed more efficient or just did it differently.Stevo_666 said:Anyhow, not sure what the problem is. Thought you wanted to let everyone in regardless?
Latter is the case, as per the evidence."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
See above. People were happy to criticise the original source on the basis that it may be biased, so I'm happy to return the favour. Or do you just swallow what the Guardian says without questioning?Pross said:
Funny how you asked for evidence of the obvious and now the evidence is available you are moaning about the source. I’d have thought actual stats are more relevant than whether Trevor from Jeddah got through quickly and got smiled at by the sailor boys on passport control.Stevo_666 said:
Funny that should run in the Guardian...rick_chasey said:Follow up from the discussion on border force strike being an improvement:
As predicted, they just waved everyone through.
Only 9 people detained.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/31/just-nine-passengers-detained-at-heathrow-during-border-force-strike?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherJust nine people were stopped at passport control and held at Heathrow over three strike days from 23 to 25 December, compared with 189 people over the same three days in 2021 – a 95% drop.
I’d be more interested in the numbers who are refused entry etc. But plainly the army had different priorities than the border force."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I have beef with the rulez.
A border force that doesn’t enforce the rules properly, regardless of the quality or sense of said rules, is obviously not fit for purpose.0 -
Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.Stevo_666 said:Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.0 -
Stevo_666 said:
See above. People were happy to criticise the original source on the basis that it may be biased, so I'm happy to return the favour. Or do you just swallow what the Guardian says without questioning?Pross said:
Funny how you asked for evidence of the obvious and now the evidence is available you are moaning about the source. I’d have thought actual stats are more relevant than whether Trevor from Jeddah got through quickly and got smiled at by the sailor boys on passport control.Stevo_666 said:
Funny that should run in the Guardian...rick_chasey said:Follow up from the discussion on border force strike being an improvement:
As predicted, they just waved everyone through.
Only 9 people detained.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/31/just-nine-passengers-detained-at-heathrow-during-border-force-strike?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherJust nine people were stopped at passport control and held at Heathrow over three strike days from 23 to 25 December, compared with 189 people over the same three days in 2021 – a 95% drop.
I’d be more interested in the numbers who are refused entry etc. But plainly the army had different priorities than the border force.
I don’t trust any newspapers, they all have too much political bias. The difference is The Telegraph did a few vox pop that supported an anti-Union view whereas The Guardian is using official statistics that can be checked for accuracy.
I’m not a fan of Unions from my own experience of them but to argue that the backup brought in on strike days did a better job as they were quicker at processing people was obviously flawed.0 -
I would imagine that the numbers during the next strike will be a bit different.
If I wanted in, I'd definitely choose to try then given what we now know. They won't be able to wave people through again.0 -
Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.rick_chasey said:
The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.Stevo_666 said:Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
What happens when the employer isn’t listening? It’s not like a Border Force officer can move to a different company for more money as we would in the private sector. That’s why strikes are more prevalent in the public sector and inconveniencing the public is pretty much the only weapon in their arsenal. The interesting thing with the current strikes is that there actually seems to be a greater level of public support despite the inconvenience being caused.Stevo_666 said:
Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.rick_chasey said:
The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.Stevo_666 said:Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.0 -
I’m not sure you really understand how collective action works.Stevo_666 said:
Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.rick_chasey said:
The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.Stevo_666 said:Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.0 -
Employees' contract is with the employer not the public. It's the employer that has the responsibility to their customers, not the employees. Which you know. Very much enjoying the nonsense being put out to defend a lost cause.Stevo_666 said:
Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.rick_chasey said:
The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.Stevo_666 said:Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Now now, don't be patronising again. I know how it works, just don't agree with strike action - not that it has made in a difference in this case.rick_chasey said:
I’m not sure you really understand how collective action works.Stevo_666 said:
Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.rick_chasey said:
The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.Stevo_666 said:Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I know whom has a contract with who. Striking makes life difficult for many and directly affects the livelihood of many others, yet somehow its seen as OK. Sorry, that's not OK.rjsterry said:
Employees' contract is with the employer not the public. It's the employer that has the responsibility to their customers, not the employees. Which you know. Very much enjoying the nonsense being put out to defend a lost cause.Stevo_666 said:
Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.rick_chasey said:
The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.Stevo_666 said:Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.
Not sure which you think is a lost cause, as hopefully the unions will run out money soon
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/30/unions-struggling-funding-costly-strikes/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Who knows what else they maybe suited to but if they can't get anything better out in the market, that's life and life is tough sometimes. Sometimes you need to think about these things when choosing a career and have a back up plan if and when things change.Pross said:
What happens when the employer isn’t listening? It’s not like a Border Force officer can move to a different company for more money as we would in the private sector. That’s why strikes are more prevalent in the public sector and inconveniencing the public is pretty much the only weapon in their arsenal. The interesting thing with the current strikes is that there actually seems to be a greater level of public support despite the inconvenience being caused.Stevo_666 said:
Same as for any group or workers. Do the job you're paid to do and do it properly. By all means negotiate with your employers over pay, but don't screw things up for people who have nothing to do with your dispute. If there have been the problems that the Guardian alleges, these are a direct result of the strikes as you can't just close the borders.rick_chasey said:
The interesting thing is the illustration of the trade off between ease of entry and strict rule enforcement.Stevo_666 said:Anyway, time for border force to get back to work so they can pile the pressure on their employers
Which is your priority? The telegraph commentators seem to want it both ways.
As for public support, I'd beg to differ on that. For example:
https://telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/20/mick-lynch-holds-secret-talks-network-rail-support-train-strikes/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So you do have an issue with just letting anyone in. I guess the main question is where you draw the line.rick_chasey said:I have beef with the rulez.
A border force that doesn’t enforce the rules properly, regardless of the quality or sense of said rules, is obviously not fit for purpose."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Do you have any evidence……pangolin said:Hmm so all of us who suggested the speed was evidence they were doing a worse job were correct. Who'd have thought.
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