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Stevo_666 said:
I'm just going on what the passengers said. Any evidence to suggest that they were less diligent?pangolin said:
Better ≠ quicker.Stevo_666 said:
You suggsted they may have let more in than normal who shouldn't have. How did you work that out?Pross said:
I’m not sure how you work that out. People without training handling people more quickly suggests a lack of thoroughness to me.Stevo_666 said:
Based on the above performance, possibly less than normal.Pross said:Hmm but how many got in who shouldn’t have?
You may get away with it on an ad hoc basis like this but people would soon cotton on if it was the norm. Think how quickly people would go through with no-one there.
In any event, bit embarrassing that others can come in and do the job you're paid to do day in day out, with very little experience and do it better. Let's get them driving trains in January
If the only measure of performance for border security was speed then we wouldn't have any border security.
I dare say that customers at a shop that managed to speed up the experience at the till by not faffing around manually entering barcodes that the scanner doesn't recognise wouldn't complain.0 -
Also here is an interesting comparison of train drivers pay across Europe which Mick Lynch clearly hasn't read.
https://euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-these-are-the-countries-that-pay-train-drivers-the-most-and-the-least-in-eur
Guess which country pays them the most?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
He's assuming to try and score a point. There's no evidence. They could have just been more efficient.Pross said:
No, just logic.Stevo_666 said:No evidence then.
They also gave better service according to the feedback:
"Trevor Boswell, who arrived into Heathrow Terminal Four from Jeddah, said he had “flown many times” into the airport but the soldiers “showed how it could and should be done”.
“I was very impressed with the number of servicemen manning both the counters and guiding passengers – they handled me with professionalism and in a calm manner, and within a few short minutes I was through,” he told The Telegraph.
“In comparison, I would say that 80 per cent of the time, you are processed and receive a cold and rude reception by the usual Border Force staff. Do I think this puts the position of the striking force under scrutiny? Yes, and rightly so.”
And
“To a large degree I think it makes the strike somewhat irrelevant and maybe even embarrassing for border control. Can we have the Army in charge every day, please?”
No rush to settle this one then "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So there were more people doing the job?0
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How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.0
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Stevo_666 said:
He's assuming to try and score a point. There's no evidence. They could have just been more efficient.
Your "could" is doing a lot of heavy lifting to try to score a point. It 'could' have been lots of things.
Still, I'm not knocking the fact that there wasn't a meltdown.0 -
I’m going to go out on a limb and say Trevor Boswell coming in from Jeddah and who is a regular flier may not be a fan of Unions either so possibly not the most reliable witness.0
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I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
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Also, how many more public services can our armed forces carry out to help with strike breaking considering their own resources have been cut to the bone?0
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No evidence then, as stated above.Pross said:
I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No idea, but a lot of those striking seem not to care about this.Pross said:Also, how many more public services can our armed forces carry out to help with strike breaking considering their own resources have been cut to the bone?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
They are paying the soldiers who covering these strikers posts a bonus of the equivalent of £5,200 a year.
Which I understand is more than is being offered to nurses I’m not sure what is being offered to the border control.0 -
Correct, just logic as I’ve already said. However, I’ll admit I’m wrong if you provide evidence that Border Force employees aren’t as good at their jobs as temporary stand ins.Stevo_666 said:
No evidence then, as stated above.Pross said:
I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
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Have a heart attack or stroke and get some squaddie to treat you and you might have a good idea.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
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He might get one of the MFs, I think they’re medically trained but might decide to leave him for the bants or even burn him with fire.webboo said:
Have a heart attack or stroke and get some squaddie to treat you and you might have a good idea.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
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The article I linked above is good evidence. Feel free to refute any part of it if you can.Pross said:
Correct, just logic as I’ve already said. However, I’ll admit I’m wrong if you provide evidence that Border Force employees aren’t as good at their jobs as temporary stand ins.Stevo_666 said:
No evidence then, as stated above.Pross said:
I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Didn't know doctors were on strike.webboo said:
Have a heart attack or stroke and get some squaddie to treat you and you might have a good idea.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I don’t think that the MF’s actually have a medical, nursing or paramedic qualification. I’m sure they might be good at get you off the battlefield though which I guess is a bit like A and E these days.Pross said:
He might get one of the MFs, I think they’re medically trained but might decide to leave him for the bants or even burn him with fire.webboo said:
Have a heart attack or stroke and get some squaddie to treat you and you might have a good idea.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
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I really hope you don't get called up for jury service any time soon if that is your definition of good evidence.0
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No it isn’t, it just shows the strikes didn’t cause delays (according to some vox pop). I’ve never said that hasn’t been the the case but do you really think the job of Border Force is to let people into the country as quickly as possible or is there perhaps a bit more to it than that? How can Trevor from Jeddah decide the military did the job properly just because he got through quickly and they were less grumpy? He’d have been through quicker still with no passport control.Stevo_666 said:
The article I linked above is good evidence. Feel free to refute any part of it if you can.Pross said:
Correct, just logic as I’ve already said. However, I’ll admit I’m wrong if you provide evidence that Border Force employees aren’t as good at their jobs as temporary stand ins.Stevo_666 said:
No evidence then, as stated above.Pross said:
I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
Anyway, we’re just going round in circles now.0 -
You think the first heath professional you will see if you are having a medical emergency will be a doctor.Stevo_666 said:
Didn't know doctors were on strike.webboo said:
Have a heart attack or stroke and get some squaddie to treat you and you might have a good idea.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
Start experiencing chest pains then ring your private health care provider.
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Stevo struggling with the detail in these replies. Would do well in the new border force.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono2 -
Stevos new found love of speedy border controls makes me think maybe we can join Schengen in the future.2
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Weirdly I never feel like cracking jokes with the gendarmes when I enter France either, or try telling them that they shouldn't look so serious. Mind you, that might have something to do with the fact that they are armed as well as looking grumpy and bored.0
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Plus their love of the English and other foreigners daring to visit the motherland.briantrumpet said:Weirdly I never feel like cracking jokes with the gendarmes when I enter France either, or try telling them that they shouldn't look so serious. Mind you, that might have something to do with the fact that they are armed as well as looking grumpy and bored.
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Clearly speed is not the only criteria, but there is no evidence that they have done a worse job than those who normally do it.Pross said:
No it isn’t, it just shows the strikes didn’t cause delays (according to some vox pop). I’ve never said that hasn’t been the the case but do you really think the job of Border Force is to let people into the country as quickly as possible or is there perhaps a bit more to it than that? How can Trevor from Jeddah decide the military did the job properly just because he got through quickly and they were less grumpy? He’d have been through quicker still with no passport control.Stevo_666 said:
The article I linked above is good evidence. Feel free to refute any part of it if you can.Pross said:
Correct, just logic as I’ve already said. However, I’ll admit I’m wrong if you provide evidence that Border Force employees aren’t as good at their jobs as temporary stand ins.Stevo_666 said:
No evidence then, as stated above.Pross said:
I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.Stevo_666 said:
I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?Pross said:How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.
Anyway, we’re just going round in circles now."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
What part of the Schengen arrangements makes you think Border controls are involved?Jezyboy said:Stevos new found love of speedy border controls makes me think maybe we can join Schengen in the future.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Obviously the home office has a different objective for the border force than the people going through the border.0
