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  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,668
    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.

    I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?
    I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.
    No evidence then, as stated above.
    Correct, just logic as I’ve already said. However, I’ll admit I’m wrong if you provide evidence that Border Force employees aren’t as good at their jobs as temporary stand ins.
    The article I linked above is good evidence. Feel free to refute any part of it if you can.
    No it isn’t, it just shows the strikes didn’t cause delays (according to some vox pop). I’ve never said that hasn’t been the the case but do you really think the job of Border Force is to let people into the country as quickly as possible or is there perhaps a bit more to it than that? How can Trevor from Jeddah decide the military did the job properly just because he got through quickly and they were less grumpy? He’d have been through quicker still with no passport control.

    Anyway, we’re just going round in circles now.
    Clearly speed is not the only criteria, but there is no evidence that they have done a worse job than those who normally do it.
    Apart from the speed
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.

    I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?
    I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.
    No evidence then, as stated above.
    Correct, just logic as I’ve already said. However, I’ll admit I’m wrong if you provide evidence that Border Force employees aren’t as good at their jobs as temporary stand ins.
    The article I linked above is good evidence. Feel free to refute any part of it if you can.
    No it isn’t, it just shows the strikes didn’t cause delays (according to some vox pop). I’ve never said that hasn’t been the the case but do you really think the job of Border Force is to let people into the country as quickly as possible or is there perhaps a bit more to it than that? How can Trevor from Jeddah decide the military did the job properly just because he got through quickly and they were less grumpy? He’d have been through quicker still with no passport control.

    Anyway, we’re just going round in circles now.
    Clearly speed is not the only criteria, but there is no evidence that they have done a worse job than those who normally do it.
    I suppose that will only come out when a Internationally known suicide bomber happens to have taken up residence in your man cave. But who cares if you get through immigration faster.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    If they really relax the checks, it will have the added benefit of stopping people crossing the channel in inflatables.

    Win win.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,938
    Who'd have thought that The Telegraph would have made the main splash on their website about Trevor from Jeddah being waved through passport control with a cheery smile, and that ample evidence thus proving that Border Control staff are incompetent and union members?
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,686
    briantrumpet said:

    Who'd have thought that The Telegraph would have made the main splash on their website about Trevor from Jeddah being waved through passport control with a cheery smile, and that ample evidence thus proving that Border Control staff are incompetent and union members?

    Or that Stevo would cite it.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Come on guys it is embarrassing for somebody to be replaced by a squaddie with 5 minutes training and would suggest that if they left they could be easily replaced.

    As a lot of the trains are automatic I am sure they could find somebody to sit up front swigging cans of beer and watching porn.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Not sure “speedy passing through the border” really aligns with the hostile environment objective of the home office.

    Frankly, if I’m not getting borderline abuse when I present the wrong nationality passport, I’d assume they’re not filling the brief appropriately and will be reprimanded from higher up.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,295
    Sounds like border force have put together a smoothly running operation.

    It's been very quick when I've been through Heathrow and Gatwick this year.

    If the e gates aren't broken it must be easy to get uk passport holders through.
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    Stevo_666 said:

    Also here is an interesting comparison of train drivers pay across Europe which Mick Lynch clearly hasn't read.
    https://euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-these-are-the-countries-that-pay-train-drivers-the-most-and-the-least-in-eur

    Guess which country pays them the most?

    ASLEF is the biggest train drivers union. The RMT only represents a very small percentage. The RMT strike isn’t about train drivers pay. The ASLEF strike is.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited December 2022
    kingstongraham said:

    Sounds like border force have put together a smoothly running operation.

    It's been very quick when I've been through Heathrow and Gatwick this year.

    If the e gates aren't broken it must be easy to get uk passport holders through.

    Shame they couldn’t do it for Stansted or Harwich.

    Not got through either borders on the return leg in under an hour.

    Shout out to the border guard who didn’t believe my 3 year old was sleeping in the back of the car at 9pm so made a performative march out of the her box to check.

    The Dutch border guard, not necessarily know for friendliness, was happy to stamp her fake kids passport from the theme park 🫡
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,967
    webboo said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    How could people untrained in the role have possibly been more efficient? The other possible reasons are that people were expecting worse and so it felt quicker or to try to prove a point more people were put on duty. Much as I dislike Unions I really don’t think the border staff are usually lazing around delaying people for the fun of it.

    I'm speculating here, but could it because Border Force aren't very good at what they're paid to do? And here they are asking for a pay rise. Wonder how many other striking workforces are in the same position?
    I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and suggest that it is far more likely to be a combination of less thorough checking and more people on duty but if you genuinely believe the people who it for a living are incompetent carry on.
    No evidence then, as stated above.
    Correct, just logic as I’ve already said. However, I’ll admit I’m wrong if you provide evidence that Border Force employees aren’t as good at their jobs as temporary stand ins.
    The article I linked above is good evidence. Feel free to refute any part of it if you can.
    No it isn’t, it just shows the strikes didn’t cause delays (according to some vox pop). I’ve never said that hasn’t been the the case but do you really think the job of Border Force is to let people into the country as quickly as possible or is there perhaps a bit more to it than that? How can Trevor from Jeddah decide the military did the job properly just because he got through quickly and they were less grumpy? He’d have been through quicker still with no passport control.

    Anyway, we’re just going round in circles now.
    Clearly speed is not the only criteria, but there is no evidence that they have done a worse job than those who normally do it.
    I suppose that will only come out when a Internationally known suicide bomber happens to have taken up residence in your man cave. But who cares if you get through immigration faster.
    See above. Faster does not mean less diligent. Already asked for some evidence to back up these allegations and still none is forthcoming.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,967
    briantrumpet said:

    Who'd have thought that The Telegraph would have made the main splash on their website about Trevor from Jeddah being waved through passport control with a cheery smile, and that ample evidence thus proving that Border Control staff are incompetent and union members?

    Which bit of the article do you disagree with?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,967
    edited December 2022
    skyblueamateur said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Also here is an interesting comparison of train drivers pay across Europe which Mick Lynch clearly hasn't read.
    https://euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-these-are-the-countries-that-pay-train-drivers-the-most-and-the-least-in-eur

    Guess which country pays them the most?

    ASLEF is the biggest train drivers union. The RMT only represents a very small percentage. The RMT strike isn’t about train drivers pay. The ASLEF strike is.
    They say its not about pay, sure. Funny how they rejected an offer of a 9% pay rise less than 2 weeks ago.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,967
    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Who'd have thought that The Telegraph would have made the main splash on their website about Trevor from Jeddah being waved through passport control with a cheery smile, and that ample evidence thus proving that Border Control staff are incompetent and union members?

    Or that Stevo would cite it.
    It appears that border staff are just not very efficient. And by striking they have shown themselves to be so. Well done border force :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,967
    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Who'd have thought that The Telegraph would have made the main splash on their website about Trevor from Jeddah being waved through passport control with a cheery smile, and that ample evidence thus proving that Border Control staff are incompetent and union members?

    Or that Stevo would cite it.
    It appears that border staff are just not very efficient. And by striking they have shown themselves to be so. Well done border force :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    Stevo_666 said:

    skyblueamateur said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Also here is an interesting comparison of train drivers pay across Europe which Mick Lynch clearly hasn't read.
    https://euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-these-are-the-countries-that-pay-train-drivers-the-most-and-the-least-in-eur

    Guess which country pays them the most?

    ASLEF is the biggest train drivers union. The RMT only represents a very small percentage. The RMT strike isn’t about train drivers pay. The ASLEF strike is.
    They say its not about pay, sure. Funny how they rejected an offer of a 9% pay rise less than 2 weeks ago.
    It is about pay but not train drivers pay. That is what the ASLEF strike is about.

    Mick Whelan is the one you should direct your ire at about train drivers not Mick Lynch.
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    Not everyone who works on the railway is a train driver.
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    Stevo_666 said:

    skyblueamateur said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Also here is an interesting comparison of train drivers pay across Europe which Mick Lynch clearly hasn't read.
    https://euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-these-are-the-countries-that-pay-train-drivers-the-most-and-the-least-in-eur

    Guess which country pays them the most?

    ASLEF is the biggest train drivers union. The RMT only represents a very small percentage. The RMT strike isn’t about train drivers pay. The ASLEF strike is.
    They say its not about pay, sure. Funny how they rejected an offer of a 9% pay rise less than 2 weeks ago.
    Was it not 8% over two years?

    The RMT agreed a deal last week with the Welsh operators for a rise of between 7.6 and 9.5%
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,686
    skyblueamateur said:

    Not everyone who works on the railway is a train driver.

    Don’t bother, Stevo fully understands these things but pretends not to so he can continue arguing.
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    FWIW I don’t agree with a lot of the strikes but the misinformation from some sections of the media is pathetic.

    The ‘Union Baron’ and ‘fat cats’ tag that the left and right use are ridiculous.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,967
    skyblueamateur said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    skyblueamateur said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Also here is an interesting comparison of train drivers pay across Europe which Mick Lynch clearly hasn't read.
    https://euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-these-are-the-countries-that-pay-train-drivers-the-most-and-the-least-in-eur

    Guess which country pays them the most?

    ASLEF is the biggest train drivers union. The RMT only represents a very small percentage. The RMT strike isn’t about train drivers pay. The ASLEF strike is.
    They say its not about pay, sure. Funny how they rejected an offer of a 9% pay rise less than 2 weeks ago.
    It is about pay but not train drivers pay. That is what the ASLEF strike is about.

    Mick Whelan is the one you should direct your ire at about train drivers not Mick Lynch.
    As I said, it is about pay then.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,967
    edited December 2022
    Pross said:

    skyblueamateur said:

    Not everyone who works on the railway is a train driver.

    Don’t bother, Stevo fully understands these things but pretends not to so he can continue arguing.
    I thought you said you were done arguing on this. And yet here you still are...after starting the argument with me in the first place ;)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,474
    This man was Tony Blair's key advisor


    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,938
    tailwindhome said:

    This man was Tony Blair's key advisor



    Illegible to my eyes... BR's compression reduces hosted images to 335 pixels.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,295
    briantrumpet said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This man was Tony Blair's key advisor



    Illegible to my eyes... BR's compression reduces hosted images to 335 pixels.
    Run up to the good Friday agreement referendum, the letter is from Alistair Campbell suggesting a goodwill football match in Belfast between Rangers and Celtic. With Rangers in green and white hoops, Celtic in blue.

    It didn't go any further 😕
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,938
    kingstongraham said:

    briantrumpet said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This man was Tony Blair's key advisor



    Illegible to my eyes... BR's compression reduces hosted images to 335 pixels.
    Run up to the good Friday agreement referendum, the letter is from Alistair Campbell suggesting a goodwill football match in Belfast between Rangers and Celtic. With Rangers in green and white hoops, Celtic in blue.

    It didn't go any further 😕

    Thanks KG.

    🤷‍♂️
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,295
    The fact he wasted paper on it is quite something.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,603
    kingstongraham said:

    briantrumpet said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This man was Tony Blair's key advisor



    Illegible to my eyes... BR's compression reduces hosted images to 335 pixels.
    Run up to the good Friday agreement referendum, the letter is from Alistair Campbell suggesting a goodwill football match in Belfast between Rangers and Celtic. With Rangers in green and white hoops, Celtic in blue.

    It didn't go any further 😕
    Completely deluded.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,938
    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    briantrumpet said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This man was Tony Blair's key advisor



    Illegible to my eyes... BR's compression reduces hosted images to 335 pixels.
    Run up to the good Friday agreement referendum, the letter is from Alistair Campbell suggesting a goodwill football match in Belfast between Rangers and Celtic. With Rangers in green and white hoops, Celtic in blue.

    It didn't go any further 😕
    Completely deluded.

    He's a complete footballhead, it seems.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,623
    edited December 2022
    AC was lucky to come back from the Lions tour to NZ in 2005 alive by all accounts. Danny Grewcock for one was shafted by him. Taken to improve the PR with the one eyed NZ rugby fan, and let 2 ABs get away with GBH (on Brian O'Driscoll 5 minutes into the first test) and then hanging DG out to dry when Kevin Meallamu tried to hook him.
    The guy is one step behind Piers Morgan on the total w@nker ladder.

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