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Stevo_666

Great quote from Emily Thornberry on this mornings Andrew Marr programme: 'We want to to be in a customs union that includes services'.

Genius.

rjsterry

Not strictly in the right place, but close enough and not sure it warrants a separate thread: some good observations of the problems with our political system.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... -not-going

Stevo_666

Funny how £1m a year can change your views on a company
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/19/facebook-hires-nick-clegg-head-global-affairs/

Quote from Clegg 2 years ago:
"I'm not especially bedazzled by Facebook. I actually find the messianic Californian new-worldy-touchy-feely culture of Facebook a little grating," he said two years ago.

"Nor am I sure that companies such as Facebook really pay all the tax they could — though that's as much the fault of governments who still haven't got their tax act together.'

“The jiggery-pokery of tax planning by the large multinational tech companies is also guaranteed to inflame public opinion. It may all be impeccably legal but the impression that less tax is being paid than can reasonably be expected remains."

Don't you just love these principled Lib Dem types

rjsterry

He's hardly a hardcore lefty, is he? Clegg is Orange Book liberal rather than SDP, so claiming hypocrisy seems a bit thin. Conservative MPs like Steve Baker and Charlie Elphicke have said much the same as Clegg.

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

He's hardly a hardcore lefty, is he?

I never said he was a lefty - or a hypocrite. You seem a bit a bit defensive about stuff I didn't say

Although there is an old saying that if the best way to turn a leftie into a Tory is to given them enough money.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

He's hardly a hardcore lefty, is he?

I never said he was a lefty - or a hypocrite. You seem a bit a bit defensive about stuff I didn't say

Although there is an old saying that if the best way to turn a leftie into a Tory is to given them enough money.

That is the point of this thread, no? Or were you genuinely expressing your admiration?

Somehow I doubt he's doing it for a pay rise. Ironically, the Cleggs have apparently done very well out of Brexit.

rjsterry

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

He's hardly a hardcore lefty, is he?

I never said he was a lefty - or a hypocrite. You seem a bit a bit defensive about stuff I didn't say

Although there is an old saying that if the best way to turn a leftie into a Tory is to given them enough money.

That is the point of this thread, no? Or were you genuinely expressing your admiration?

Somehow I doubt he's doing it for a pay rise. Ironically, the Cleggs have apparently done very well out of Brexit.

Now if Miliband had been appointed Head of Global Affairs...

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

He's hardly a hardcore lefty, is he?

I never said he was a lefty - or a hypocrite. You seem a bit a bit defensive about stuff I didn't say

Although there is an old saying that if the best way to turn a leftie into a Tory is to given them enough money.

That is the point of this thread, no? Or were you genuinely expressing your admiration?

Somehow I doubt he's doing it for a pay rise. Ironically, the Cleggs have apparently done very well out of Brexit.

Now if Miliband had been appointed Head of Global Affairs...

There's probably a good reason why he wasn't.

Anyway, here's a snippet from Cleggy's interview
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2014/may/29/nick-clegg-bacon-sandwich-video

rjsterry

They hired Clegg for his EU contacts, obviously. What with the EU wanting to regulate FB'S business.

Unsurprisingly, given her role in breaking the story of how Facebook was used by the Leave campaign, Carole Cadwaladr is pretty scathing.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... r-facebook

I'm not sure I buy that it's all Facebook's fault - that sounds a bit like blaming petrol stations for arson attacks - and I don't think he needs the money. She also says it is his job to represent 'us'. Surely not since he lost his seat; once your constituents elect someone else you no longer represent them.

Quite what Head of Global Affairs involves, I don't know, but it will be interesting to see if anything comes of it.

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

They hired Clegg for his EU contacts, obviously. What with the EU wanting to regulate FB'S business.

Unsurprisingly, given her role in breaking the story of how Facebook was used by the Leave campaign, Carole Cadwaladr is pretty scathing.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... r-facebook

I'm not sure I buy that it's all Facebook's fault - that sounds a bit like blaming petrol stations for arson attacks - and I don't think he needs the money. She also says it is his job to represent 'us'. Surely not since he lost his seat; once your constituents elect someone else you no longer represent them.

Quite what Head of Global Affairs involves, I don't know, but it will be interesting to see if anything comes of it.

Yep, slightly ironic for Clegg given that that one of Facebooks biggest on-going battles is with the EU, although as you say he does have good contacts there - 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer'. To be fair they're offering him good money to do the job.

surrey_commuter

just thought I would dust off this old favourite. Seems we just need to get the economy growing faster with higher productivity growth and we will grow GDP, have strong real wage growth and raise living standards whilst reducing debt as a % of GDP.

Why has nobody thought of doing this before?

“We have to get debt down as a percentage of GDP,” he said. “There is a very hard way of doing it, which is running a budget surplus every year and paying off the cash debt, and there’s a much easier way of doing it, which is get the economy growing faster with higher trend productivity growth.

“That is the smart way to shrink our debt as a proportion of GDP. Grow GDP. Strong real wage growth. Rising living standards.”

ballysmate

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

just thought I would dust off this old favourite. Seems we just need to get the economy growing faster with higher productivity growth and we will grow GDP, have strong real wage growth and raise living standards whilst reducing debt as a % of GDP.

Why has nobody thought of doing this before?

“We have to get debt down as a percentage of GDP,” he said. “There is a very hard way of doing it, which is running a budget surplus every year and paying off the cash debt, and there’s a much easier way of doing it, which is get the economy growing faster with higher trend productivity growth.

“That is the smart way to shrink our debt as a proportion of GDP. Grow GDP. Strong real wage growth. Rising living standards.”

Who said this?

Stevo_666

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

I'm sure he'll love every minute of it.

bompington

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

Am i imagining it or does JC have the look of a man who has actually realised where his radical chic has landed him, and how bad it's going to look?

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

just thought I would dust off this old favourite. Seems we just need to get the economy growing faster with higher productivity growth and we will grow GDP, have strong real wage growth and raise living standards whilst reducing debt as a % of GDP.

Why has nobody thought of doing this before?

“We have to get debt down as a percentage of GDP,” he said. “There is a very hard way of doing it, which is running a budget surplus every year and paying off the cash debt, and there’s a much easier way of doing it, which is get the economy growing faster with higher trend productivity growth.

“That is the smart way to shrink our debt as a proportion of GDP. Grow GDP. Strong real wage growth. Rising living standards.”

Who said this?

Well spotted sir - that would be Philip Hammond

surrey_commuter

bompington wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

Am i imagining it or does JC have the look of a man who has actually realised where his radical chic has landed him, and how bad it's going to look?

Looks like a man who has realised he has a pocket on his shirt and too late to put his jacket back on

rick_chasey

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

F@cking hell poppy outrage is the sharp end of the right wing equivalent of identify politics.

WW1 finished 100 years ago and plainly plenty of people see remebrence day as war christmas, complete with decorations, specialist stands, “outrage” over how it’s celebrated and an overly long build up. It has long since moved beyond being a way to remember how sh!t war is and it’s ridiculous that a charity needs to manufacture a peculiar type of collective memory for the purposes of fund raising for veterans, rather than the govt doing the right thing and appropriately compensation veterans for doing what plenty of us would loathe to do.

There are plenty of better ways to rubbish Corbyn. If you want to persuade those of a more left wing and/or less bellicose nature, going after a politicians role in Remembrance Sunday isn’t gonna cut it is it?

The whole debate is fucking moronic and the whole thing should be done away with.

bompington

Errrr. think you missed the point a bit there Rick...

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

Errrr. think you missed the point a bit there Rick...

It’s all a f@cking joke.

You all spend too much time looking at what virtue signals they give off and not enough on policy.

His voting record and policy suggestions will give you much more of an indication of what policies he would enact as leader than some picture of him at some terrorist/freedom fighter (delete according to your persuasion) funeral.

But every f&cker is too lazy for that.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

F@cking hell poppy outrage is the sharp end of the right wing equivalent of identify politics.

WW1 finished 100 years ago and plainly plenty of people see remebrence day as war christmas, complete with decorations, specialist stands, “outrage” over how it’s celebrated and an overly long build up. It has long since moved beyond being a way to remember how sh!t war is and it’s ridiculous that a charity needs to manufacture a peculiar type of collective memory for the purposes of fund raising for veterans, rather than the govt doing the right thing and appropriately compensation veterans for doing what plenty of us would loathe to do.

There are plenty of better ways to rubbish Corbyn. If you want to persuade those of a more left wing and/or less bellicose nature, going after a politicians role in Remembrance Sunday isn’t gonna cut it is it?

The whole debate is ******* moronic and the whole thing should be done away with.

Whilst I agree that grief one upmanship seems to be escalating are you really suggesting that we do away with the poppy or Remembrance Sunday?

rick_chasey

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

F@cking hell poppy outrage is the sharp end of the right wing equivalent of identify politics.

WW1 finished 100 years ago and plainly plenty of people see remebrence day as war christmas, complete with decorations, specialist stands, “outrage” over how it’s celebrated and an overly long build up. It has long since moved beyond being a way to remember how sh!t war is and it’s ridiculous that a charity needs to manufacture a peculiar type of collective memory for the purposes of fund raising for veterans, rather than the govt doing the right thing and appropriately compensation veterans for doing what plenty of us would loathe to do.

There are plenty of better ways to rubbish Corbyn. If you want to persuade those of a more left wing and/or less bellicose nature, going after a politicians role in Remembrance Sunday isn’t gonna cut it is it?

The whole debate is ******* moronic and the whole thing should be done away with.

Whilst I agree that grief one upmanship seems to be escalating are you really suggesting that we do away with the poppy or Remembrance Sunday?

Why not? The people who are most interested probably closely correlate with the most bellicose.

rick_chasey

Symbols change meaning over time. Poppy is no longer about the original meaning. No surprise since it’s very old.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

F@cking hell poppy outrage is the sharp end of the right wing equivalent of identify politics.

WW1 finished 100 years ago and plainly plenty of people see remebrence day as war christmas, complete with decorations, specialist stands, “outrage” over how it’s celebrated and an overly long build up. It has long since moved beyond being a way to remember how sh!t war is and it’s ridiculous that a charity needs to manufacture a peculiar type of collective memory for the purposes of fund raising for veterans, rather than the govt doing the right thing and appropriately compensation veterans for doing what plenty of us would loathe to do.

There are plenty of better ways to rubbish Corbyn. If you want to persuade those of a more left wing and/or less bellicose nature, going after a politicians role in Remembrance Sunday isn’t gonna cut it is it?

The whole debate is ******* moronic and the whole thing should be done away with.

Whilst I agree that grief one upmanship seems to be escalating are you really suggesting that we do away with the poppy or Remembrance Sunday?

Why not? The people who are most interested probably closely correlate with the most bellicose.

Because both were started by the people who survived the butchery. To me the disdain for the common man’s life is a shameful stain on this country’s ruling classes. To me the acts of remembrance help ensure there is no repetition.

rick_chasey

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

F@cking hell poppy outrage is the sharp end of the right wing equivalent of identify politics.

WW1 finished 100 years ago and plainly plenty of people see remebrence day as war christmas, complete with decorations, specialist stands, “outrage” over how it’s celebrated and an overly long build up. It has long since moved beyond being a way to remember how sh!t war is and it’s ridiculous that a charity needs to manufacture a peculiar type of collective memory for the purposes of fund raising for veterans, rather than the govt doing the right thing and appropriately compensation veterans for doing what plenty of us would loathe to do.

There are plenty of better ways to rubbish Corbyn. If you want to persuade those of a more left wing and/or less bellicose nature, going after a politicians role in Remembrance Sunday isn’t gonna cut it is it?

The whole debate is ******* moronic and the whole thing should be done away with.

Whilst I agree that grief one upmanship seems to be escalating are you really suggesting that we do away with the poppy or Remembrance Sunday?

Why not? The people who are most interested probably closely correlate with the most bellicose.

Because both were started by the people who survived the butchery. To me the disdain for the common man’s life is a shameful stain on this country’s ruling classes. To me the acts of remembrance help ensure there is no repetition.

How very 20th Century.

Take a look at what the poppy police say about football players who chose not to wear one, and tell me it’s still about that.

It’s been coopted as part of the broader culture wars and should be retired as such. Gives too much cover for people who ought not get it.

Stevo_666

bompington wrote:

Errrr. think you missed the point a bit there Rick...

A bit?

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.



Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

F@cking hell poppy outrage is the sharp end of the right wing equivalent of identify politics.

WW1 finished 100 years ago and plainly plenty of people see remebrence day as war christmas, complete with decorations, specialist stands, “outrage” over how it’s celebrated and an overly long build up. It has long since moved beyond being a way to remember how sh!t war is and it’s ridiculous that a charity needs to manufacture a peculiar type of collective memory for the purposes of fund raising for veterans, rather than the govt doing the right thing and appropriately compensation veterans for doing what plenty of us would loathe to do.

There are plenty of better ways to rubbish Corbyn. If you want to persuade those of a more left wing and/or less bellicose nature, going after a politicians role in Remembrance Sunday isn’t gonna cut it is it?

The whole debate is ******* moronic and the whole thing should be done away with.

Whilst I agree that grief one upmanship seems to be escalating are you really suggesting that we do away with the poppy or Remembrance Sunday?

Why not? The people who are most interested probably closely correlate with the most bellicose.

Because both were started by the people who survived the butchery. To me the disdain for the common man’s life is a shameful stain on this country’s ruling classes. To me the acts of remembrance help ensure there is no repetition.

How very 20th Century.

Take a look at what the poppy police say about football players who chose not to wear one, and tell me it’s still about that.

It’s been coopted as part of the broader culture wars and should be retired as such. Gives too much cover for people who ought not get it.

Self appointed poppy police are snowflakes so can be ignored.

The footballers should up the ante and accuse them of transphobia

rick_chasey

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Be interesting on Sunday when the leader of HM Opposition lays a wreath at the Cenotaph.
Perhaps afterwards he will claim to have been there but can't remember laying a wreath.
I attach a pic, lest we forget.

[img]<span%20class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/08/13/17/10389288-655005147930072-2863546592063103558-n.jpg?w968h681</span>[/img]

Btw Labour's complaint to IPSO regarding the reporting of Jeremy paying his respects, was quietly dropped at the beginning of October.

F@cking hell poppy outrage is the sharp end of the right wing equivalent of identify politics.

WW1 finished 100 years ago and plainly plenty of people see remebrence day as war christmas, complete with decorations, specialist stands, “outrage” over how it’s celebrated and an overly long build up. It has long since moved beyond being a way to remember how sh!t war is and it’s ridiculous that a charity needs to manufacture a peculiar type of collective memory for the purposes of fund raising for veterans, rather than the govt doing the right thing and appropriately compensation veterans for doing what plenty of us would loathe to do.

There are plenty of better ways to rubbish Corbyn. If you want to persuade those of a more left wing and/or less bellicose nature, going after a politicians role in Remembrance Sunday isn’t gonna cut it is it?

The whole debate is ******* moronic and the whole thing should be done away with.

Whilst I agree that grief one upmanship seems to be escalating are you really suggesting that we do away with the poppy or Remembrance Sunday?

Why not? The people who are most interested probably closely correlate with the most bellicose.

Because both were started by the people who survived the butchery. To me the disdain for the common man’s life is a shameful stain on this country’s ruling classes. To me the acts of remembrance help ensure there is no repetition.

How very 20th Century.

Take a look at what the poppy police say about football players who chose not to wear one, and tell me it’s still about that.

It’s been coopted as part of the broader culture wars and should be retired as such. Gives too much cover for people who ought not get it.

Self appointed poppy police are snowflakes so can be ignored.

The footballers should up the ante and accuse them of transphobia

That's fine if you want to do that, but I would suggest giving some thought to the cause of Cambridge uni students voting down a motion to promote remembrance Sunday.

Now, you can agree with the sentiment or not, I imagine most won't, but look beyond the student stereotype and you have a bunch of (likely) smart people who have decided that remebrance Sunday glorifies war, so I'd suggest that those of an older generation are missing this change of meaning.

The telegraph reports it fairly straightforwardly.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2 ... ts-reject/

Cambridge University’s Student Union (CUSU) has voted down a motion to promote Remembrance Sunday amid fears about the “glorification” of conflict.

The move came after an amendment was voted through, which noted the efforts of various organisations to “reshape remembrance away from glorification and valorisation of war” and to campaign “against militarism”.

If you go further down.

Instead, Ms Swain argued that “all lives lost and affected by war” should be commemorated and that students should be encouraged to engage in “productive criticism” of war.

A spokesman for Cambridge Students’ Union said: “Discussions were not about erasing the past, but rather broadening the focus of our remembrance to include those who suffered and died wherever they were in the world.

“We are a global university with students drawn from more than 120 countries, many of whom choose to recognise Remembrance in different ways.”

so clearly they feel that the poppy is no longer what you SC take it to mean.

tangled_metal

Does it matter what the poppy police think? It's what it means to the majority of people who actively take part in remembrance not those who treat it as virtue signalling. If you end it because of the surface chaff you miss something that's worth more to society.

As for the charity bit? Well I hate the idea of charity being involved in supporting serving members and veterans of our armed services. It's a nation's covenant to them to look after servicemen / women and their families. It's just that we don't want to pay up. Well unfortunately the situation is that charities are the optional veterans tax that we should all pay by politically it's not in government's interests to put it in place.

So let's end all this and see what is lost. It'll serve those without need of RBL's services because they'll not be bothered by annoying poppy sellers and another war festivity right? Veterans suffer, families of the fallen suffer and those affected by loss due to war have a lose a kind of healing given by collective remembrance. Governments won't step up I reckon. There's probably a lot of consequences. However at least you'll not get footballers bothered by the poppy police!

Sorry Rick, you talk a lot of sense but giving footballers getting bothered by the poppy police is a funny but daft reason to end an event that started and is used today as a collective remembrance of the sacrifices of armed services over the years. Not just WWI you know.

We should however get rid of the poppy police not the event.

rick_chasey

Yeah if you struggle to see that the examples I provide are illustrative I can see why you’d think that.