BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

rick_chasey

Poisonous products and general standards for anything consumable.

What financial services can and can’t be sold to retail consumers

Etc

TheBigBean

These sound like sensible ideas.

TheBigBean

skyblueamateur said:

Is this not just an extension of CE? Not all regulation is detrimental to consumers

Yes, but that is supposed to deal with safety, health and environmental stuff. That's why they are pushing the environmental angle, but that seems an overreach to me.

skyblueamateur

I would disagree. Only anecdotal but I have drawers of different cables which is mental. This new regulation would do away with this. I welcome it.

rjsterry

...

TheBigBean

skyblueamateur said:

I would disagree. Only anecdotal but I have drawers of different cables which is mental. This new regulation would do away with this. I welcome it.

I have a garage which contains many things including old bike bits. That doesn't mean a single bike design needs to be imposed by the government.

super_davo

TheBigBean said:

skyblueamateur said:

I would disagree. Only anecdotal but I have drawers of different cables which is mental. This new regulation would do away with this. I welcome it.

I have a garage which contains many things including old bike bits. That doesn't mean a single bike design needs to be imposed by the government.

One persons government overreach is another persons sensible intervention to prevent sub optimal outcomes being delivered by the market. And I'm firmly in the latter on this one. It's good for the environment and good for consumers, especially ones that forget the proprietary charging cable for their speaker / headphones / whatever when going on holiday.

One of the great things about the EU is they recognise that markets don't always deliver the right outcomes, and they make sensible interventions that benefit consumers like this, roaming charges, SEPA etc. and deliver them in a non-political, highly technocratic way. It blows the minds of those with a "small state low intervention" mindset; but at continental scale it still gives a level playing field vs most of your competitors.

Stevo_666

super_davo said:

TheBigBean said:

skyblueamateur said:

I would disagree. Only anecdotal but I have drawers of different cables which is mental. This new regulation would do away with this. I welcome it.

I have a garage which contains many things including old bike bits. That doesn't mean a single bike design needs to be imposed by the government.

One persons government overreach is another persons sensible intervention to prevent sub optimal outcomes being delivered by the market. And I'm firmly in the latter on this one. It's good for the environment and good for consumers, especially ones that forget the proprietary charging cable for their speaker / headphones / whatever when going on holiday.

One of the great things about the EU is they recognise that markets don't always deliver the right outcomes, and they make sensible interventions that benefit consumers like this, roaming charges, SEPA etc. and deliver them in a non-political, highly technocratic way. It blows the minds of those with a "small state low intervention" mindset; but at continental scale it still gives a level playing field vs most of your competitors.

How does the EU know the right outcome but corporates that specialise in certain markets do not?

Stevo_666

I think this is a classic example of people assuming that governments* somehow know better than anyone else and know what's good for us.

* Or supranational bodies trying take the place of governments in this case.

briantrumpet

Making recycling easier for consumers and more profitable to do by forcing producers to design and label their packaging appropriately. This has only happened because of regulation.

Forcing shops to charge for carrier bags.

As RC say, "etc."

The "free market" is great at some things, rubbish at others. The USB-C thing seems to win on both the environmental (cutting down on unrecyclable electronic goods, made largely out of oil-based materials), and preventing consumers effectively being tied into effectively monopolistic practices.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

super_davo said:

TheBigBean said:

skyblueamateur said:

I would disagree. Only anecdotal but I have drawers of different cables which is mental. This new regulation would do away with this. I welcome it.

I have a garage which contains many things including old bike bits. That doesn't mean a single bike design needs to be imposed by the government.

One persons government overreach is another persons sensible intervention to prevent sub optimal outcomes being delivered by the market. And I'm firmly in the latter on this one. It's good for the environment and good for consumers, especially ones that forget the proprietary charging cable for their speaker / headphones / whatever when going on holiday.

One of the great things about the EU is they recognise that markets don't always deliver the right outcomes, and they make sensible interventions that benefit consumers like this, roaming charges, SEPA etc. and deliver them in a non-political, highly technocratic way. It blows the minds of those with a "small state low intervention" mindset; but at continental scale it still gives a level playing field vs most of your competitors.

How does the EU know the right outcome but corporates that specialise in certain markets do not?

They both have different definitions of the right outcome obviously. Apple are trying to find ways to sell more iPhones in an increasingly competitive market. They're not really interested in a lot else. The EU is not interested in how much money Apple make.

Neither is infallible. Both get it wrong often. Apple produces some stuff that is just stupid - the touchbar on laptops - and so do governments and the EU (let's all drive diesels.... oh.)

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

super_davo said:

TheBigBean said:

skyblueamateur said:

I would disagree. Only anecdotal but I have drawers of different cables which is mental. This new regulation would do away with this. I welcome it.

I have a garage which contains many things including old bike bits. That doesn't mean a single bike design needs to be imposed by the government.

One persons government overreach is another persons sensible intervention to prevent sub optimal outcomes being delivered by the market. And I'm firmly in the latter on this one. It's good for the environment and good for consumers, especially ones that forget the proprietary charging cable for their speaker / headphones / whatever when going on holiday.

One of the great things about the EU is they recognise that markets don't always deliver the right outcomes, and they make sensible interventions that benefit consumers like this, roaming charges, SEPA etc. and deliver them in a non-political, highly technocratic way. It blows the minds of those with a "small state low intervention" mindset; but at continental scale it still gives a level playing field vs most of your competitors.

How does the EU know the right outcome but corporates that specialise in certain markets do not?

They both have different definitions of the right outcome obviously. Apple are trying to find ways to sell more iPhones in an increasingly competitive market. They're not really interested in a lot else. The EU is not interested in how much money Apple make.

Neither is infallible. Both get it wrong often. Apple produces some stuff that is just stupid - the touchbar on laptops - and so do governments and the EU (let's all drive diesels.... oh.)

Companies often get it wrong - however that is for the customers and markets to decide.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

super_davo said:

TheBigBean said:

skyblueamateur said:

I would disagree. Only anecdotal but I have drawers of different cables which is mental. This new regulation would do away with this. I welcome it.

I have a garage which contains many things including old bike bits. That doesn't mean a single bike design needs to be imposed by the government.

One persons government overreach is another persons sensible intervention to prevent sub optimal outcomes being delivered by the market. And I'm firmly in the latter on this one. It's good for the environment and good for consumers, especially ones that forget the proprietary charging cable for their speaker / headphones / whatever when going on holiday.

One of the great things about the EU is they recognise that markets don't always deliver the right outcomes, and they make sensible interventions that benefit consumers like this, roaming charges, SEPA etc. and deliver them in a non-political, highly technocratic way. It blows the minds of those with a "small state low intervention" mindset; but at continental scale it still gives a level playing field vs most of your competitors.

How does the EU know the right outcome but corporates that specialise in certain markets do not?

They both have different definitions of the right outcome obviously. Apple are trying to find ways to sell more iPhones in an increasingly competitive market. They're not really interested in a lot else. The EU is not interested in how much money Apple make.

Neither is infallible. Both get it wrong often. Apple produces some stuff that is just stupid - the touchbar on laptops - and so do governments and the EU (let's all drive diesels.... oh.)

Companies often get it wrong - however that is for the customers and markets to decide.

Err, no it's for shareholders. You seem to have forgotten the point you are making.

Personally I don't really care whose idea it is: it's a good one. I'll leave the ideological purity to others.

briantrumpet

I admit I quite like Dunt because of his views on Brexit and his swearing, but I think his piece on May is still worth a read for those of different views.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1701946419710484631

But reality always reasserts itself eventually and by God, it is reasserting itself now. The state of Britain after Brexit is a complete vindication of the warnings critics made during and after the referendum period. We are poorer than we would otherwise be. We are weaker than we would otherwise be. Our economic, diplomatic, trading and political power status is diminished. We are increasingly a shadow of our former self.

Last week, the US and EU announced an ambitious plan to build an economic corridor linking Europe with the Middle East and India. Britain was nowhere to be seen. What was once unthinkable is now commonplace.

It did not need to be this way. May could have pursued a genuine compromise position. She could have faced down the hard Brexiters in her party with at least half the relish with which she lambasted the Remainers. Instead, she encouraged their fever dreams and then fell victim to that which she had nurtured.

That’s the story of the real Prime Minister Theresa May. The imaginary one which she is now describing would have been far superior. It’s a shame she couldn’t have invented her while she was still in power.

Pross

Not sure I agree she could have reached a compromise. She was held to ransom by the loons and because she was somehow talked into calling a second GE that lost a majority she couldn’t ignore them. They obviously weren’t going to agree to any kind of compromise or sensible negotiation.

briantrumpet

An ex-pupil of mine is going to study in Barcelona. Should be easy?

Here's what she needs to do, apparently, from a friend of her mum's:

There are now 3 student visas 0-3 months, 3-6 months and 6 months plus. My niece was advised by her Uni to apply for her 6months + student visa from the Spanish Embassy in the UK. This should be done at least 2 - 3 months before travelling to Spain. Apparently the main reasons visas are getting revoked are students not applying for the correct length visa to coincide with their courses or not having sufficient independent funds .Most students think they can get a part-time job in Spain ( which they can do) but they must also show enough personal funding to cover their stay ( was 700 € a month).
My niece said this is the list of documents required by the Spanish consulate in the Uk. She said she applied as soon as she was offered her place in Spain. She also had to apply for a residency card within one month of arriving in Spain. It becomes much more difficult to get a student visa if you wait until you are already in Spain.
6month+ visa requirements:
Two duly completed application forms.
Your valid passport.
Your valid identification card (ID card).
Two recent passport photographs.
Letter of admission from chosen university.
Proof of health insurance.
Proof of sufficient funds:
Bank account statement.
Proof of financial aid/scholarship.
Notarized letter from parents/legal guardian (assuming financial responsibility).
Letter from university/school (assuming financial responsibility).
Proof of fee payment.
Medical certificate.
Certificate of criminal record (at most three months old).

Also, all documents in English must be translated into Spanish by an officially certified translator.

Brexit, eh?

pblakeney

Should be studying in good old Blighty.
(Not my opinion).

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

super_davo said:

TheBigBean said:

skyblueamateur said:

I would disagree. Only anecdotal but I have drawers of different cables which is mental. This new regulation would do away with this. I welcome it.

I have a garage which contains many things including old bike bits. That doesn't mean a single bike design needs to be imposed by the government.

One persons government overreach is another persons sensible intervention to prevent sub optimal outcomes being delivered by the market. And I'm firmly in the latter on this one. It's good for the environment and good for consumers, especially ones that forget the proprietary charging cable for their speaker / headphones / whatever when going on holiday.

One of the great things about the EU is they recognise that markets don't always deliver the right outcomes, and they make sensible interventions that benefit consumers like this, roaming charges, SEPA etc. and deliver them in a non-political, highly technocratic way. It blows the minds of those with a "small state low intervention" mindset; but at continental scale it still gives a level playing field vs most of your competitors.

How does the EU know the right outcome but corporates that specialise in certain markets do not?

They both have different definitions of the right outcome obviously. Apple are trying to find ways to sell more iPhones in an increasingly competitive market. They're not really interested in a lot else. The EU is not interested in how much money Apple make.

Neither is infallible. Both get it wrong often. Apple produces some stuff that is just stupid - the touchbar on laptops - and so do governments and the EU (let's all drive diesels.... oh.)

Companies often get it wrong - however that is for the customers and markets to decide.

Err, no it's for shareholders. You seem to have forgotten the point you are making.

Personally I don't really care whose idea it is: it's a good one. I'll leave the ideological purity to others.

So shareholders are the ones who buy or don't buy the products? Whether thenproduct sells determines the commercial suspension to a large degree, obviously.

kingstongraham

I don't get it either.

If iPhone users have usbc lying around for all their other devices, and usbc is everywhere, market forces should determine that apple goes to usbc anyway.

Who wants a phone that you have to carry your own specific charger for?

sungod

TheBigBean said:

sungod said:

TheBigBean said:

ddraver said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Can't help but notice the EU was able to strong arm apple into making the new iphone use the standard USB-C port.

Of all the ways they could meaningfully try to regulate big tech companies, they've gone with the one that stifles innovation. Will they now regulate bottom brackets on bikes?

I hope so, 'innovation' in that department has been censored

I don't like all the different sizing, press fit etc. but I think my latest Shimano one which fits a 68mm thread is much better than square taper, so that is progress. The EU should pass a law that all bikes should have 68mm threaded BBs.

Also, all phones should have 3.5mm headphone jack.

I thought you were all "down with this sort of thing" but I'm right behind you so far...

Now let's talk about cars & motorbikes please!

I'm happy when things become standardised. I don't think it is the government's job to legislate for it though.

who else will reign in manufacturers that create proprietary connectors that lock-in consumers and increase the appalling proliferation of e-waste?

the lightning connector is long outdated, usb-c thrashes it on maximum power and data rates

apple already dropped it from some other products in favour of the superior usb-c

the only reason for apple continuing to inflict it on consumers is to keep them locked in and perpetuate a revenue stream - even third-party manufacturers have to pay apple a fee per cable due to built-in authentication chip (or counterfeit it)

The free market.

pure fantasy

for most people there's no such thing once you are trapped in a vendor's walled garden

rick_chasey

Monopolistic tendencies of big companies are not in the consumer’s interest.

Apple is the largest publicly traded company in the world and probably the biggest company in the world.

The iPhone is their flagship product.

That the EU could force them to adopt something so fundamental to the product shows the power of the EU and why the UK will never be able to do much beyond extremely minor divergence with the single market.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

That the EU could force them to adopt something so fundamental to the product shows the power of the EU...

That's true, but it's very telling that the "Great EU Power Flex" is over phone chargers rather than anything of even vague geopolitical significance.

More interesting to me is that Apple has apparently gone for USBC charging on its iPhones worldwide now, rather than just to comply with the EU.

wallace_and_gromit

kingstongraham said:

I don't get it either.

If iPhone users have usbc lying around for all their other devices, and usbc is everywhere, market forces should determine that apple goes to usbc anyway.

Who wants a phone that you have to carry your own specific charger for?

It will be good when all charging is standardised, presumably on USB-C. When we go on hols (for cycling and other measurably outdoor stuff) we have to take:

USBC for my laptop
Micro USB (B?) for lights, Garmin Edges and Kindles
Lightning for iPhone
Bespoke Garmin charger for my watch
A different bespoke charger for Mrs W&G's watch
Lord knows what it's called for 12sp Di2
And Lord knows what else for daughter's 11sp Di2 if she's with us

Thankfully, my old Edge 500 packed up recently so we no longer need the USBA.

rick_chasey

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

That the EU could force them to adopt something so fundamental to the product shows the power of the EU...

That's true, but it's very telling that the "Great EU Power Flex" is over phone chargers rather than anything of even vague geopolitical significance.

More interesting to me is that Apple has apparently gone for USBC charging on its iPhones worldwide now, rather than just to comply with the EU.

That's because, despite EU basher rhetoric, the EU is not really a well rounded geopolitical power; it's an economic power, or more accurately, an extremely powerful market, with a tapestry of different nations providing their own geopolitical power which they may or may not decide to club together.

It's a demonstration of the point I've been banging on about (and tbf, most people already know, bar stevo), that might is everything when it comes to trade.

We as the consumer have no might over apple, but by pooling our national market and trade regulation together in Europe we actually can effect change over the biggest companies.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

and why the UK will never be able to do much beyond extremely minor divergence with the single market.

See Activision take over.

TheBigBean

sungod said:

TheBigBean said:

sungod said:

TheBigBean said:

ddraver said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Can't help but notice the EU was able to strong arm apple into making the new iphone use the standard USB-C port.

Of all the ways they could meaningfully try to regulate big tech companies, they've gone with the one that stifles innovation. Will they now regulate bottom brackets on bikes?

I hope so, 'innovation' in that department has been censored

I don't like all the different sizing, press fit etc. but I think my latest Shimano one which fits a 68mm thread is much better than square taper, so that is progress. The EU should pass a law that all bikes should have 68mm threaded BBs.

Also, all phones should have 3.5mm headphone jack.

I thought you were all "down with this sort of thing" but I'm right behind you so far...

Now let's talk about cars & motorbikes please!

I'm happy when things become standardised. I don't think it is the government's job to legislate for it though.

who else will reign in manufacturers that create proprietary connectors that lock-in consumers and increase the appalling proliferation of e-waste?

the lightning connector is long outdated, usb-c thrashes it on maximum power and data rates

apple already dropped it from some other products in favour of the superior usb-c

the only reason for apple continuing to inflict it on consumers is to keep them locked in and perpetuate a revenue stream - even third-party manufacturers have to pay apple a fee per cable due to built-in authentication chip (or counterfeit it)

The free market.

pure fantasy

for most people there's no such thing once you are trapped in a vendor's walled garden

Different phone perhaps? I bought my last one because it had a 3.5mm headphone socket.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

That the EU could force them to adopt something so fundamental to the product shows the power of the EU...

That's true, but it's very telling that the "Great EU Power Flex" is over phone chargers rather than anything of even vague geopolitical significance.

More interesting to me is that Apple has apparently gone for USBC charging on its iPhones worldwide now, rather than just to comply with the EU.

That's because, despite EU basher rhetoric, the EU is not really a well rounded geopolitical power; it's an economic power, or more accurately, an extremely powerful market...

True enough. Given those limitations, one wonders why it needs five Presidents and a Parliament.

TheBigBean

@surrey_commuter Are you ignoring this thread?

Pross

TheBigBean said:

sungod said:

TheBigBean said:

sungod said:

TheBigBean said:

ddraver said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Can't help but notice the EU was able to strong arm apple into making the new iphone use the standard USB-C port.

Of all the ways they could meaningfully try to regulate big tech companies, they've gone with the one that stifles innovation. Will they now regulate bottom brackets on bikes?

I hope so, 'innovation' in that department has been censored

I don't like all the different sizing, press fit etc. but I think my latest Shimano one which fits a 68mm thread is much better than square taper, so that is progress. The EU should pass a law that all bikes should have 68mm threaded BBs.

Also, all phones should have 3.5mm headphone jack.

I thought you were all "down with this sort of thing" but I'm right behind you so far...

Now let's talk about cars & motorbikes please!

I'm happy when things become standardised. I don't think it is the government's job to legislate for it though.

who else will reign in manufacturers that create proprietary connectors that lock-in consumers and increase the appalling proliferation of e-waste?

the lightning connector is long outdated, usb-c thrashes it on maximum power and data rates

apple already dropped it from some other products in favour of the superior usb-c

the only reason for apple continuing to inflict it on consumers is to keep them locked in and perpetuate a revenue stream - even third-party manufacturers have to pay apple a fee per cable due to built-in authentication chip (or counterfeit it)

The free market.

pure fantasy

for most people there's no such thing once you are trapped in a vendor's walled garden

Different phone perhaps? I bought my last one because it had a 3.5mm headphone socket.

I suspect you are in a minority and there are far more people who choose because it is an iPhone above all else and never even consider the minor technicalities other than when it becomes a bit of a nuisance. In the past I avoided iPhone because of the headphone issue (my memory is hazy but I think I also used to hate the hassle of synching compared to other devices too).

TheBigBean

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

sungod said:

TheBigBean said:

sungod said:

TheBigBean said:

ddraver said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Can't help but notice the EU was able to strong arm apple into making the new iphone use the standard USB-C port.

Of all the ways they could meaningfully try to regulate big tech companies, they've gone with the one that stifles innovation. Will they now regulate bottom brackets on bikes?

I hope so, 'innovation' in that department has been censored

I don't like all the different sizing, press fit etc. but I think my latest Shimano one which fits a 68mm thread is much better than square taper, so that is progress. The EU should pass a law that all bikes should have 68mm threaded BBs.

Also, all phones should have 3.5mm headphone jack.

I thought you were all "down with this sort of thing" but I'm right behind you so far...

Now let's talk about cars & motorbikes please!

I'm happy when things become standardised. I don't think it is the government's job to legislate for it though.

who else will reign in manufacturers that create proprietary connectors that lock-in consumers and increase the appalling proliferation of e-waste?

the lightning connector is long outdated, usb-c thrashes it on maximum power and data rates

apple already dropped it from some other products in favour of the superior usb-c

the only reason for apple continuing to inflict it on consumers is to keep them locked in and perpetuate a revenue stream - even third-party manufacturers have to pay apple a fee per cable due to built-in authentication chip (or counterfeit it)

The free market.

pure fantasy

for most people there's no such thing once you are trapped in a vendor's walled garden

Different phone perhaps? I bought my last one because it had a 3.5mm headphone socket.

I suspect you are in a minority and there are far more people who choose because it is an iPhone above all else and never even consider the minor technicalities other than when it becomes a bit of a nuisance. In the past I avoided iPhone because of the headphone issue (my memory is hazy but I think I also used to hate the hassle of synching compared to other devices too).

Apple is a very successful brand and makes lots of money as a result, but people do have a choice. There are a lot of phone manufactures. It is not even close to being market abuse.

I have never had one, but have vaguely considered swapping, because they seem to be a bit better with privacy.