BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Not a great advert for the governance then if both sides want a change.0
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What about that quote makes you think both sides want a change?TheBigBean said:Not a great advert for the governance then if both sides want a change.
Especially when one side is 27 different countries?0 -
If both sides don't want to change then there is no issue. Your quote is essentially saying they want more locally produced batteries, but that is true for both sides of the channel i.e. if more were made in the EU, it would help the UK to avoid tariffs and vice versa.rick_chasey said:
What about that quote makes you think both sides want a change?TheBigBean said:Not a great advert for the governance then if both sides want a change.
Especially when one side is 27 different countries?
You also need to balance this with "dumping" of Chinese EV vehicles. They do seem to have the energy to look at increasing the tariffs on those. If there is an opportunity for more autarky, then that is the chosen path.
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I think recognising the geopolitical challenge of China in trade is not the same as autarky.TheBigBean said:
If both sides don't want to change then there is no issue. Your quote is essentially saying they want more locally produced batteries, but that is true for both sides of the channel i.e. if more were made in the EU, it would help the UK to avoid tariffs and vice versa.rick_chasey said:
What about that quote makes you think both sides want a change?TheBigBean said:Not a great advert for the governance then if both sides want a change.
Especially when one side is 27 different countries?
You also need to balance this with "dumping" of Chinese EV vehicles. They do seem to have the energy to look at increasing the tariffs on those. If there is an opportunity for more autarky, then that is the chosen path.
Germany is a huge exporter to China so it's hardly autarkic.0 -
Any clues what she's on about?
Still, if the Telegraph is throwing in the towel, I probably shouldn't complain.
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Don't worry, I'm not getting my hopes up, but when you listen to this clip, you'll hear that the BBC's headline misses of the rest of his sentence "...in the course of the next parliament."
I still think (or at least hope) that Starmer is playing the longer game, with the belief that if they are in power for ten years, the boundaries of Brexit will become sufficiently blurred and the indicators of the advantages of re-establishing 'friction-free' trade with the EU will consolidate and increase the current electoral advantage for at least some form of EU membership or alignment.
In the meantime, every day more that the Tories screw up everything they touch, the more the electorate will realise it was never the EU who were the ones to blame for the UK's woes.
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This is my hope too. At the moment Labour are lazer focused on getting into government, because once in the fears of Mail readers and Stevos across the country of lefty apocalypse drop away.briantrumpet said:Don't worry, I'm not getting my hopes up, but when you listen to this clip, you'll hear that the BBC's headline misses of the rest of his sentence "...in the course of the next parliament."
I still think (or at least hope) that Starmer is playing the longer game, with the belief that if they are in power for ten years, the boundaries of Brexit will become sufficiently blurred and the indicators of the advantages of re-establishing 'friction-free' trade with the EU will consolidate and increase the current electoral advantage for at least some form of EU membership or alignment.
In the meantime, every day more that the Tories screw up everything they touch, the more the electorate will realise it was never the EU who were the ones to blame for the UK's woes.
Once in, I fully expect the Tories will rip each other apart and take a couple of terms in opposition to become a viable alternative government.
Anything that they would like to do but will be considered controversial, such as Britain's future relationship with the EU, can wait until the second term, when they will have a stronger hand, and can expect less resistance.
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It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored0 -
Nice bit of leftiebollox generalisation about those who don't share your views. It's kind of expectedsuper_davo said:
This is my hope too. At the moment Labour are lazer focused on getting into government, because once in the fears of Mail readers and Stevos across the country of lefty apocalypse drop away.briantrumpet said:Don't worry, I'm not getting my hopes up, but when you listen to this clip, you'll hear that the BBC's headline misses of the rest of his sentence "...in the course of the next parliament."
I still think (or at least hope) that Starmer is playing the longer game, with the belief that if they are in power for ten years, the boundaries of Brexit will become sufficiently blurred and the indicators of the advantages of re-establishing 'friction-free' trade with the EU will consolidate and increase the current electoral advantage for at least some form of EU membership or alignment.
In the meantime, every day more that the Tories screw up everything they touch, the more the electorate will realise it was never the EU who were the ones to blame for the UK's woes.
Once in, I fully expect the Tories will rip each other apart and take a couple of terms in opposition to become a viable alternative government.
Anything that they would like to do but will be considered controversial, such as Britain's future relationship with the EU, can wait until the second term, when they will have a stronger hand, and can expect less resistance.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉0 -
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉
Not going to argue that, just like Cameron, they didn't think it through properly, sending him home with nothing, but it must have been enough for you at the time, as it was for the Telegraph.
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They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I know they haven't. Hence my statement aboverjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
rjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉
Thanks. I'd not really followed it up, as it felt like spitballing. In effect they already have different levels of 'membership' anyway, depending on the level of market access desired and the amount of input and alignment countries want with the EU.
Must admit I've been amused by the warmth and enthusiasm with which the French hosted a king, and a British one at that. I'm sure that they are aware that the warmth will have been noted in the UK. It does also amuse me that my French correspondents always know more about the royal family than I do.0 -
Strange how Republics have a fondness for Monarchies.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉
Thanks. I'd not really followed it up, as it felt like spitballing. In effect they already have different levels of 'membership' anyway, depending on the level of market access desired and the amount of input and alignment countries want with the EU.
Must admit I've been amused by the warmth and enthusiasm with which the French hosted a king, and a British one at that. I'm sure that they are aware that the warmth will have been noted in the UK. It does also amuse me that my French correspondents always know more about the royal family than I do.0 -
Not sure which one you mean. You asked Brian what he thought of the latest proposals for associate membership: there aren't any concrete proposals.Stevo_666 said:
I know they haven't. Hence my statement aboverjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
...or policies, or government.rjsterry said:
Not sure which one you mean. You asked Brian what he thought of the latest proposals for associate membership: there aren't any concrete proposals.Stevo_666 said:
I know they haven't. Hence my statement aboverjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
OK to be clear, I know there are no formal proposals - it is something that has been out out there as a proposal by (I think) the Germans and French. So what's your point? Other than trying to score one.rjsterry said:
Not sure which one you mean. You asked Brian what he thought of the latest proposals for associate membership: there aren't any concrete proposals.Stevo_666 said:
I know they haven't. Hence my statement aboverjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There aren't even any informal proposals. It was a bit of 'what if' thinking from a group of academics who obtained funding from the French and German governments and nothing more. We may as well discuss if Australia will join the EU: it's not going to happen.Stevo_666 said:
OK to be clear, I know there are no formal proposals - it is something that has been out out there as a proposal by (I think) the Germans and French. So what's your point? Other than trying to score one.rjsterry said:
Not sure which one you mean. You asked Brian what he thought of the latest proposals for associate membership: there aren't any concrete proposals.Stevo_666 said:
I know they haven't. Hence my statement aboverjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You think the EU should have agreed for the UK to have a legal exemption from the "ever closer union" goal?Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉0 -
No doubt it will be agreed at the last minute.The European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) also warned the measures could reduce output from EU factories by 480,000 vehicles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-668890290 -
Whatever, I was interested to see what people thought of it anyway. Although you seem to be happy to discuss he idea of rejoining in full so not sure why you're against talking about this.rjsterry said:
There aren't even any informal proposals. It was a bit of 'what if' thinking from a group of academics who obtained funding from the French and German governments and nothing more. We may as well discuss if Australia will join the EU: it's not going to happen.Stevo_666 said:
OK to be clear, I know there are no formal proposals - it is something that has been out out there as a proposal by (I think) the Germans and French. So what's your point? Other than trying to score one.rjsterry said:
Not sure which one you mean. You asked Brian what he thought of the latest proposals for associate membership: there aren't any concrete proposals.Stevo_666 said:
I know they haven't. Hence my statement aboverjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Bit late now but it was worth considering.kingstongraham said:
You think the EU should have agreed for the UK to have a legal exemption from the "ever closer union" goal?Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Think you might have me muddled with someone else. We're not going to be rejoining any time soon. Even countries that really want to join take years. Frankly, I think it's a waste of effort for the moment. Even tweaking the TCA requires political buy in from the EU and they're just not interested. With different people on both sides who knows, but we'll have to live with the mess we've made for a while.Stevo_666 said:
Whatever, I was interested to see what people thought of it anyway. Although you seem to be happy to discuss he idea of rejoining in full so not sure why you're against talking about this.rjsterry said:
There aren't even any informal proposals. It was a bit of 'what if' thinking from a group of academics who obtained funding from the French and German governments and nothing more. We may as well discuss if Australia will join the EU: it's not going to happen.Stevo_666 said:
OK to be clear, I know there are no formal proposals - it is something that has been out out there as a proposal by (I think) the Germans and French. So what's your point? Other than trying to score one.rjsterry said:
Not sure which one you mean. You asked Brian what he thought of the latest proposals for associate membership: there aren't any concrete proposals.Stevo_666 said:
I know they haven't. Hence my statement aboverjsterry said:
They haven't thought of anything. The idea was proposed in an independently commissioned report. It's not an EU proposal and there's no plan to implement it. Some people in France and Germany would like the UK to be more involved in the EU (because we were quite good at it), but the EU is just not interested.Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
They did this.Stevo_666 said:
Bit late now but it was worth considering.kingstongraham said:
You think the EU should have agreed for the UK to have a legal exemption from the "ever closer union" goal?Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉0 -
Any links to a summary of the proposals?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
-
Trick question then.kingstongraham said:
They did this.Stevo_666 said:
Bit late now but it was worth considering.kingstongraham said:
You think the EU should have agreed for the UK to have a legal exemption from the "ever closer union" goal?Stevo_666 said:
If only the EU had thought of this about 8 years ago, we might never have left. Appears to be single market membership with reduced levels of political interference and no 'ever closer union' which I would have thought a lot of people would be OK with. Assuming the EU can be trusted to actually deliver that in practice.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
So what do you think of these latest proposals for 'associate membership'?briantrumpet said:It does surprise me the even Ed Davey is ruling out campaigning on Brentry... I'd have thought they have nothing to lose, and in their most likely targets, everything to gain from differentiating themselves from both the Tories and Labour on the subject. I can see why Labour aren't putting a target on their backs, and I suspect even Darren Jones will get his knuckles rapped over the "in the course of the next parliament" qualification, given that optimists like me will (predictably) seize on it. (Daily Mail headline: "Labour will rejoin the EU in sneaky second term betrayal of Brexit!!")
It does cheer me up though that the 'betrayal of Brexit' accusation already doesn't seem to be of any power... I'm not sure if that's because people have realised that Brexit was idiotic, or they don't think you can 'betray Brexit' once it's already (supposedly) been done and and it's too late to do anything to betray it. But it doesn't make any odds once they don't care about saving something that they either don't know what it means or care about, or positively would like to see it reversed.
I hope we're entering into a phase where the benefits (and downsides) of EU membership can be viewed pragmatically, rather than a credo for which logical arguments about practicalities need to be ignored
It would certainly be better than what we've got now, but not as good as we had before. If only more people had had your wisdom and voted Remain, eh? 😉"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Although they still would have tried it by other means."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
