BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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At the risk of repeating myself, even with its understood bias, it used to be worthy of the accreditation as a 'paper of record', and actually reported news. These days I just read it to see what reasoning the UKIP-Conservatives are relying on for their batsht-crazy ideas, and for a laugh at what they consider worth printing. Actually genuinely sad that it's ended up as it has.0
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PS, plenty of 'middle class vegetables' at the market this morning. And in the supermarket. But, yeah, 'the weather'.0
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Curious Brian, do you actually comment on cycling?!
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Needs the Two Ronnie’s and John Cleese to explainbriantrumpet said:En passant... re the Telegraph:
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Who else exactly is making salient points about Brexit in this thread that isn't a complete rehash of stuff debated to death or the 'ooh, we've found a problem that we can try to blame on Brexit, let's rejoin to solve it' approach?skyblueamateur said:😂😂😂
Nobody thinks signing up to CE as a Brexit failure. I’ve been banging on about it for the last million pages. Pretending we were going to create our own UKCA standard and getting business’ to spaff a load of money on it before accepting the inevitable is the failure or would you disagree?
You used to make salient points regarding Brexit, now you just regurgitate Telegraph nonsense that I don’t think you even believe in. It’s a shame as you used to be a useful counter point.
I’ve always tried to be pragmatic but will always call out nonsense policy regardless of which side of the fence I sit."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Dorset_Boy said:
Curious Brian, do you actually comment on cycling?!
Once in a while, though I don't follow racing, just enjoy riding my bike as much as I can, and that's a fairly simple pursuit. I'll dive into the Workshop forum from time to time if I can't work something out, used to enjoy trolling on the leg strength threads in Training, and used to look into the Tours and Tours & Expeditions threads, but they aren't terribly lively. This is a mostly fun place with interesting people mostly with much more high-powered work lives (and varied ones at that) than I have. I don't do many forums, but CS is always entertaining, and often enlightening.
Having said that, I came to BR in the first place not knowing if I'd be ready for a Tour Ride (ToB sportive) in 2010 on my diet of riding, and was encouraged to give it a go (and I was fine).2 -
I would agree that there has been a tendency to blame anything and everything on Brexit which isn’t helpful, there has also been insightful regarding the issues that have arisen from Brexit, your own being included in that.Stevo_666 said:
Who else exactly is making salient points about Brexit in this thread that isn't a complete rehash of stuff debated to death or the 'ooh, we've found a problem that we can try to blame on Brexit, let's rejoin to solve it' approach?skyblueamateur said:😂😂😂
Nobody thinks signing up to CE as a Brexit failure. I’ve been banging on about it for the last million pages. Pretending we were going to create our own UKCA standard and getting business’ to spaff a load of money on it before accepting the inevitable is the failure or would you disagree?
You used to make salient points regarding Brexit, now you just regurgitate Telegraph nonsense that I don’t think you even believe in. It’s a shame as you used to be a useful counter point.
I’ve always tried to be pragmatic but will always call out nonsense policy regardless of which side of the fence I sit.
It is a discussion board though?
You didn’t answer my question on wether you thought UKCA was a Brexit failure btw 👍0 -
Indeed. Combined with a young, well-educated, English-speaking workforce with a strong relationship with the US, common travel area with the UK and membership of the EU single marketStevo_666 said:The Irish corporate tax rate was reduced from 40% to 12.5% between 1996 and 2003. Wonder if that had an impact?
The really interesting thing is the shape of the Irish graph. I'd think it may be unique in the developed world to take until 2000 to have the same number employed in the economy as in 1880
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!1 -
I wonder does Hannan think things are going wellStevo_666 said:Sounds like some of you would enjoy reading this book
https://telegraph.co.uk/books/non-fiction/peter-foster-review-what-went-wrong-brexit/
Brexit Derangement Syndrome is a terrifying condition. It can take intelligent people and turn them into the type of activists you see outside Parliament wearing blue berets with yellow stars. Consider the case of Peter Foster who, for many years, wrote sensible reports for this newspaper, and was latterly its Europe Editor. Even then, Foster didn’t disguise his distaste for Brexit: he gave prominence to forecasts suggesting that Britain’s economy would tank, he wanted to stay in the customs union, and he was one of the earliest supporters of the “backstop” – which removed Ireland’s incentive to push the EU to a more open trade-deal. In general, however, he strove to be informative, not declaratory.
Not any more. In What Went Wrong with Brexit, every gloomy report by a Europhile think-tank is quoted as objective truth, and every Eurocrat is treated as a disinterested expert. In his accounts of the past and his recommendations for the future, Foster praises British concessions to the EU as mature and sensible, while condemning any assertiveness as unrealistic. For example, he thinks it obvious that the UK should sign up to whatever regulations the EU might adopt in future, at least as regards food and veterinary standards. To see how odd that notion is, try flipping it around and demanding that the EU accept “dynamic alignment” with the UK, arbitrated by our supreme court.
At no stage does Foster recognise that the EU can be vindictive or inconsistent. At Salzburg in 2018, Theresa May offered to accept Brussels standards unilaterally and even to pay for the privilege; but, conditioned to reject every British proposal, EU leaders said no, thereby missing their best chance to have the kind of tight relationship that Foster wants. This episode goes unmentioned.
Indeed, this is a book which makes no pretence at balance or nuance. Brexit is presented as an unmitigated calamity with no upsides at all. Foster mentions Covid-19 in passing, but the idea that paying people to stay home for the better part of two years might have a more serious impact on our economy than a change in our trading patterns is not considered.
Polemics have their place: I wrote one myself before the referendum. But I did so as, so to speak, a columnist rather than a news reporter. Foster started at the Telegraph under Charles Moore, who liked to hire correspondents who disagreed with the paper’s line, knowing that this would make them police their own biases.
Since Foster moved to the Financial Times three years ago, however, it seems as though such restraints have come off. Again and again, he gives his stories an anti-Brexit angle. Trade deals are portrayed as threats to British farmers, and the UK’s recognition of the EU’s CE kitemark, which the FT might have hailed as a welcome step towards mutual recognition and jurisdictional competition, is howled down as a Brexit failure. Most recently, Foster claimed – in a news piece, not on the opinion pages – that proposed changes in our intellectual-property rules to allow easier imports were a Brexit-driven threat to our creative industries.
That, reader, is what you get here for 175 pages – pamphleteering dressed up as analysis. And, no doubt, it will sell. A terrifying number of people are unable to move on from the 2016 referendum. Some actively wish for Brexit’s failure so as to be able to say “I told you so”. Yet it isn’t even as though they had a plan to rejoin. Foster accepts that such a move is off the menu, and instead he proposes various ways to deepen our co-operation with the EU. But you feel, somehow, that all this is secondary. Like 18th-century Jacobites, the #FBPE crowd have no real plan beyond insisting to one another that they were right all along. This book is for them.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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It hardly needs saying that Hannan is either very stupid, or thinks we are.
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Will still never forgive the FT for describing him in Lunch with the FT as the “brains behind Brexit”
https://www.ft.com/content/5fb1afd4-e3e4-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a0 -
rick_chasey said:
Will still never forgive the FT for describing him in Lunch with the FT as the “brains behind Brexit”
https://www.ft.com/content/5fb1afd4-e3e4-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a
No wonder it's not turned out as we were promised. The more you look at the cast list who had a hand in it, the more you realise why it was doomed. Even if you'd had the most able and agile politicians, it would have been hard to get something positive out of cutting trade ties with the massive market on our doorstep, but when the 'brains' behind it and its implementation were the likes of Johnson, Frost, Hannan and David Davis, it's no wonder the 'easiest deal in human history' didn't quite go to plan.
I wonder what happened to Cake & Eat It...0 -
It went past it's use by date.briantrumpet said:
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I wonder what happened to Cake & Eat It...
Prime time was just after it's too early and the nanosecond to it's too late.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
pblakeney said:
It went past it's use by date.briantrumpet said:
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I wonder what happened to Cake & Eat It...
Prime time was just after it's too early and the nanosecond to it's too late.
I shall have to go back through the thread's 2074 pages to see if anyone recognised that fleeting moment.0 -
Not sure but not that significant in the scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. Surely going back to CE is a positive thing from your point of view?skyblueamateur said:
I would agree that there has been a tendency to blame anything and everything on Brexit which isn’t helpful, there has also been insightful regarding the issues that have arisen from Brexit, your own being included in that.Stevo_666 said:
Who else exactly is making salient points about Brexit in this thread that isn't a complete rehash of stuff debated to death or the 'ooh, we've found a problem that we can try to blame on Brexit, let's rejoin to solve it' approach?skyblueamateur said:😂😂😂
Nobody thinks signing up to CE as a Brexit failure. I’ve been banging on about it for the last million pages. Pretending we were going to create our own UKCA standard and getting business’ to spaff a load of money on it before accepting the inevitable is the failure or would you disagree?
You used to make salient points regarding Brexit, now you just regurgitate Telegraph nonsense that I don’t think you even believe in. It’s a shame as you used to be a useful counter point.
I’ve always tried to be pragmatic but will always call out nonsense policy regardless of which side of the fence I sit.
It is a discussion board though?
You didn’t answer my question on wether you thought UKCA was a Brexit failure btw 👍
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I have said it before and I will say it again.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:Will still never forgive the FT for describing him in Lunch with the FT as the “brains behind Brexit”
https://www.ft.com/content/5fb1afd4-e3e4-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a
No wonder it's not turned out as we were promised. The more you look at the cast list who had a hand in it, the more you realise why it was doomed. Even if you'd had the most able and agile politicians, it would have been hard to get something positive out of cutting trade ties with the massive market on our doorstep, but when the 'brains' behind it and its implementation were the likes of Johnson, Frost, Hannan and David Davis, it's no wonder the 'easiest deal in human history' didn't quite go to plan.
I wonder what happened to Cake & Eat It...
Only a moron would think there was not a heavy economic price to pay for Brexit. Therefore Brexit was always going to be implemented by morons.
The most able and agile politicians would have implemented a form of Brexit that looked as much like remaining as possible.
Gove mocked experts because he scoured the world and could not find a credible one to argue in favour of Brexit. When you consider that even Truss and climate change deniers can amass experts to give some cover for their lunatic thoughts it shows how Brexit can only ever lead to relative economic decline.0 -
The issue isn’t a the standard chosen now. It is that the muppets in charge genuinely thought a dual standards scheme was viable and forced industry to waste many man hours and £ complying, having been advised by many experts that a dual scheme was doomed before bowing to the inevitable.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure but not that significant in the scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. Surely going back to CE is a positive thing from your point of view?skyblueamateur said:
I would agree that there has been a tendency to blame anything and everything on Brexit which isn’t helpful, there has also been insightful regarding the issues that have arisen from Brexit, your own being included in that.Stevo_666 said:
Who else exactly is making salient points about Brexit in this thread that isn't a complete rehash of stuff debated to death or the 'ooh, we've found a problem that we can try to blame on Brexit, let's rejoin to solve it' approach?skyblueamateur said:😂😂😂
Nobody thinks signing up to CE as a Brexit failure. I’ve been banging on about it for the last million pages. Pretending we were going to create our own UKCA standard and getting business’ to spaff a load of money on it before accepting the inevitable is the failure or would you disagree?
You used to make salient points regarding Brexit, now you just regurgitate Telegraph nonsense that I don’t think you even believe in. It’s a shame as you used to be a useful counter point.
I’ve always tried to be pragmatic but will always call out nonsense policy regardless of which side of the fence I sit.
It is a discussion board though?
You didn’t answer my question on wether you thought UKCA was a Brexit failure btw 👍
“Poor judgement” is the death knell of many politicians, and with good reason.
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Steveo is just being disingenuous. Of course he knows it was a stupid idea. If the issue doesn’t directly affect him then it’s ’not that significant in the scheme of things’.wallace_and_gromit said:
The issue isn’t a the standard chosen now. It is that the muppets in charge genuinely thought a dual standards scheme was viable and forced industry to waste many man hours and £ complying, having been advised by many experts that a dual scheme was doomed before bowing to the inevitable.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure but not that significant in the scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. Surely going back to CE is a positive thing from your point of view?skyblueamateur said:
I would agree that there has been a tendency to blame anything and everything on Brexit which isn’t helpful, there has also been insightful regarding the issues that have arisen from Brexit, your own being included in that.Stevo_666 said:
Who else exactly is making salient points about Brexit in this thread that isn't a complete rehash of stuff debated to death or the 'ooh, we've found a problem that we can try to blame on Brexit, let's rejoin to solve it' approach?skyblueamateur said:😂😂😂
Nobody thinks signing up to CE as a Brexit failure. I’ve been banging on about it for the last million pages. Pretending we were going to create our own UKCA standard and getting business’ to spaff a load of money on it before accepting the inevitable is the failure or would you disagree?
You used to make salient points regarding Brexit, now you just regurgitate Telegraph nonsense that I don’t think you even believe in. It’s a shame as you used to be a useful counter point.
I’ve always tried to be pragmatic but will always call out nonsense policy regardless of which side of the fence I sit.
It is a discussion board though?
You didn’t answer my question on wether you thought UKCA was a Brexit failure btw 👍
“Poor judgement” is the death knell of many politicians, and with good reason.
In answer to Steveo, we’re not ‘going back to CE’ we would always have to adhere to that because we still export to the EU. We just wasted a wedge in time and testing on UKCA certification which, as I have posted about interminably, was always going to be a failed project. It penalised British companies and not European companies as they were able to just use CE.
It was one of the most stupid policies thought up post Brexit and that’s saying something.
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He asked me whether I thought it was a Brexit failure. You're making a different point.wallace_and_gromit said:
The issue isn’t a the standard chosen now. It is that the muppets in charge genuinely thought a dual standards scheme was viable and forced industry to waste many man hours and £ complying, having been advised by many experts that a dual scheme was doomed before bowing to the inevitable.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure but not that significant in the scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. Surely going back to CE is a positive thing from your point of view?skyblueamateur said:
I would agree that there has been a tendency to blame anything and everything on Brexit which isn’t helpful, there has also been insightful regarding the issues that have arisen from Brexit, your own being included in that.Stevo_666 said:
Who else exactly is making salient points about Brexit in this thread that isn't a complete rehash of stuff debated to death or the 'ooh, we've found a problem that we can try to blame on Brexit, let's rejoin to solve it' approach?skyblueamateur said:😂😂😂
Nobody thinks signing up to CE as a Brexit failure. I’ve been banging on about it for the last million pages. Pretending we were going to create our own UKCA standard and getting business’ to spaff a load of money on it before accepting the inevitable is the failure or would you disagree?
You used to make salient points regarding Brexit, now you just regurgitate Telegraph nonsense that I don’t think you even believe in. It’s a shame as you used to be a useful counter point.
I’ve always tried to be pragmatic but will always call out nonsense policy regardless of which side of the fence I sit.
It is a discussion board though?
You didn’t answer my question on wether you thought UKCA was a Brexit failure btw 👍
“Poor judgement” is the death knell of many politicians, and with good reason."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You're not a very good mind reader.skyblueamateur said:
Steveo is just being disingenuous. Of course he knows it was a stupid idea. If the issue doesn’t directly affect him then it’s ’not that significant in the scheme of things’.wallace_and_gromit said:
The issue isn’t a the standard chosen now. It is that the muppets in charge genuinely thought a dual standards scheme was viable and forced industry to waste many man hours and £ complying, having been advised by many experts that a dual scheme was doomed before bowing to the inevitable.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure but not that significant in the scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. Surely going back to CE is a positive thing from your point of view?skyblueamateur said:
I would agree that there has been a tendency to blame anything and everything on Brexit which isn’t helpful, there has also been insightful regarding the issues that have arisen from Brexit, your own being included in that.Stevo_666 said:
Who else exactly is making salient points about Brexit in this thread that isn't a complete rehash of stuff debated to death or the 'ooh, we've found a problem that we can try to blame on Brexit, let's rejoin to solve it' approach?skyblueamateur said:😂😂😂
Nobody thinks signing up to CE as a Brexit failure. I’ve been banging on about it for the last million pages. Pretending we were going to create our own UKCA standard and getting business’ to spaff a load of money on it before accepting the inevitable is the failure or would you disagree?
You used to make salient points regarding Brexit, now you just regurgitate Telegraph nonsense that I don’t think you even believe in. It’s a shame as you used to be a useful counter point.
I’ve always tried to be pragmatic but will always call out nonsense policy regardless of which side of the fence I sit.
It is a discussion board though?
You didn’t answer my question on wether you thought UKCA was a Brexit failure btw 👍
“Poor judgement” is the death knell of many politicians, and with good reason.
In answer to Steveo, we’re not ‘going back to CE’ we would always have to adhere to that because we still export to the EU. We just wasted a wedge in time and testing on UKCA certification which, as I have posted about interminably, was always going to be a failed project. It penalised British companies and not European companies as they were able to just use CE.
It was one of the most stupid policies thought up post Brexit and that’s saying something.
I answered your question and if you don't like my answer, too bad. As mentioned, not a big issue for me. And it won't make EU membership come back even if it was."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's an example of a pure loss from brexit. We've become a rule taker.
It being inevitable is also true.0 -
As ever there was a lot of delusional thinking about the realpolitik of the EUkingstongraham said:It's an example of a pure loss from brexit. We've become a rule taker.
It being inevitable is also true.0 -
given the ever growing power/influence of brics (though it's only ric that really count) it was an act of particular idiocy to split from the eurick_chasey said:
As ever there was a lot of delusional thinking about the realpolitik of the EUkingstongraham said:It's an example of a pure loss from brexit. We've become a rule taker.
It being inevitable is also true.
the usa doesn't care much about the uk, it'll care even less if the increasingly batshit republicans gain control
the eu has it's own problems, but it's big/diverse enough to be almost self-sufficient, there'll be no favours to outsiders
as for the commonwealth, never more than a desperate attempt to perpetuate a fantasy of empire, they don't care either
brexit was the fever dream of reactionary old fogeys, cheered on by enemies of the uk and enabled by bountiful foreign backing
the 'west' is no longer dominant, the world has moved on, the uk has been diminished, it'll carry on, but with reduced opportunity and declining relevance
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Irony of course is the steadfast belief in superior British governance has taken an absolute battering largely as a result of Brexit.0
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You should read that book that I linked to above - wonderful bit of confirmation bias.rick_chasey said:Irony of course is the steadfast belief in superior British governance has taken an absolute battering largely as a result of Brexit.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You genuinely think governance had been good since Brexit?Stevo_666 said:
You should read that book that I linked to above - wonderful bit of confirmation bias.rick_chasey said:Irony of course is the steadfast belief in superior British governance has taken an absolute battering largely as a result of Brexit.
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Fair point. The sad saga of the standards regime is a failure of the Brexiteers. Thankfully in this case, real world practicalities prevented the Brexiteers from doing too much harm with their stupidity.Stevo_666 said:
He asked me whether I thought it was a Brexit failure. You're making a different point.wallace_and_gromit said:
The issue isn’t a the standard chosen now. It is that the muppets in charge genuinely thought a dual standards scheme was viable and forced industry to waste many man hours and £ complying, having been advised by many experts that a dual scheme was doomed before bowing to the inevitable.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure but not that significant in the scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. Surely going back to CE is a positive thing from your point of view?skyblueamateur said:
I would agree that there has been a tendency to blame anything and everything on Brexit which isn’t helpful, there has also been insightful regarding the issues that have arisen from Brexit, your own being included in that.Stevo_666 said:
Who else exactly is making salient points about Brexit in this thread that isn't a complete rehash of stuff debated to death or the 'ooh, we've found a problem that we can try to blame on Brexit, let's rejoin to solve it' approach?skyblueamateur said:😂😂😂
Nobody thinks signing up to CE as a Brexit failure. I’ve been banging on about it for the last million pages. Pretending we were going to create our own UKCA standard and getting business’ to spaff a load of money on it before accepting the inevitable is the failure or would you disagree?
You used to make salient points regarding Brexit, now you just regurgitate Telegraph nonsense that I don’t think you even believe in. It’s a shame as you used to be a useful counter point.
I’ve always tried to be pragmatic but will always call out nonsense policy regardless of which side of the fence I sit.
It is a discussion board though?
You didn’t answer my question on wether you thought UKCA was a Brexit failure btw 👍
“Poor judgement” is the death knell of many politicians, and with good reason.
But for the avoidance of doubt, there is nothing good about this in terms of Brexit / Brexiteer credibility.
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