BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

veronese68

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

We, as companies, are streamlining the paperwork and red tape as best we can. Pragmatism always wins out.

It is still at a huge cost and time to business’. A massively disingenuous article.

In summary ‘it’s not as censored as it was’.

I do like your posts from the front line.

Economic theory says that the free market finds the most efficient way of doing business and that Govt interference makes it less so.

The people who argue that a worse trade deal makes no difference are the same people who argue the opposite about other improved trade deals.

Thank you.

I have nothing against the trade deals being done but for most SME’s they are never going to be a substitute for being in the single market.

Pre-Brexit I could send a parcel to the continent for £5.95, that is now £25 plus customs clearance charges and duty. That would be £75-£100 to send to Australia.

With an average order value of between £150-£300 you can see why trade deals with countries on the other side of the world are of no use to companies like mine.

This is very much our experience, we used to send up to 500 parcels a day out in the busy periods, 200 of them into the EU. Retail business into the EU has all but stopped from our UK outfits, fortunately we still sell to our wholesale customers and we have a branch in Paris. We lost a couple of million in sales and have laid off a significant proportion of UK staff.

skyblueamateur

veronese68 said:

skyblueamateur said:

surrey_commuter said:

skyblueamateur said:

We, as companies, are streamlining the paperwork and red tape as best we can. Pragmatism always wins out.

It is still at a huge cost and time to business’. A massively disingenuous article.

In summary ‘it’s not as censored as it was’.

I do like your posts from the front line.

Economic theory says that the free market finds the most efficient way of doing business and that Govt interference makes it less so.

The people who argue that a worse trade deal makes no difference are the same people who argue the opposite about other improved trade deals.

Thank you.

I have nothing against the trade deals being done but for most SME’s they are never going to be a substitute for being in the single market.

Pre-Brexit I could send a parcel to the continent for £5.95, that is now £25 plus customs clearance charges and duty. That would be £75-£100 to send to Australia.

With an average order value of between £150-£300 you can see why trade deals with countries on the other side of the world are of no use to companies like mine.

This is very much our experience, we used to send up to 500 parcels a day out in the busy periods, 200 of them into the EU. Retail business into the EU has all but stopped from our UK outfits, fortunately we still sell to our wholesale customers and we have a branch in Paris. We lost a couple of million in sales and have laid off a significant proportion of UK staff.

Sorry to hear that. Is tough to take.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

veronese68

Were the majority of UK exports to non EU destinations before Brexit? The problem for small businesses is that shipping small orders to the other side of the world is expensive. I was talking to one of our bigger wholesale customers in Oz the other day, shipping a £600 bonnet would cost £1200. Shipping the same to France is significantly cheaper, but it used to be about a third of what it is now.

briantrumpet

Gee, i wonder what it is that Slovenia and Poland has that the UK hasn't, Daniel?

https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1682888723833266177

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

He hasn’t said it is, he’s giving his own experiences. There are a huge number of SMEs, Maggie’s ‘nation of shopkeepers’, who are impacted in different ways to large multinationals.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

He hasn’t said it is, he’s giving his own experiences. There are a huge number of SMEs, Maggie’s ‘nation of shopkeepers’, who are impacted in different ways to large multinationals.

And I'm giving mine. But RJS only made the comment to me. Why do you think that would be?

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

He hasn’t said it is, he’s giving his own experiences. There are a huge number of SMEs, Maggie’s ‘nation of shopkeepers’, who are impacted in different ways to large multinationals.

And I'm giving mine. But RJS only made the comment to me. Why do you think that would be?

Because you said "it's business as usual on the cross border logistics front".

If you only meant it to refer to your narrow experience, you should have been more clear.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

Your business as usual comment read more as a universal observation. You've often been fairly dismissive of anyone suggesting that there's a measurable impact on them. It's great that larger multinational businesses are back to normal, but they are the group that you would expect to be able to deal with the changes.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

Your business as usual comment read more as a universal observation. You've often been fairly dismissive of anyone suggesting that there's a measurable impact on them. It's great that larger multinational businesses are back to normal, but they are the group that you would expect to be able to deal with the changes.

Nope, as mentioned above I was giving my perspective on the situation as I see it in our organsiation - and others where I have enough info from contacts etc. It just doesn't happen to align with your views.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

Your business as usual comment read more as a universal observation. You've often been fairly dismissive of anyone suggesting that there's a measurable impact on them. It's great that larger multinational businesses are back to normal, but they are the group that you would expect to be able to deal with the changes.

Nope, as mentioned above I was giving my perspective on the situation as I see it in our organsiation - and others where I have enough info from contacts etc. It just doesn't happen to align with your views.

Zero change in one area and a negative change in another makes it negative in aggregate doesn't it?

pangolin

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

Your business as usual comment read more as a universal observation. You've often been fairly dismissive of anyone suggesting that there's a measurable impact on them. It's great that larger multinational businesses are back to normal, but they are the group that you would expect to be able to deal with the changes.

Nope, as mentioned above I was giving my perspective on the situation as I see it in our organsiation - and others where I have enough info from contacts etc. It just doesn't happen to align with your views.

Zero change in one area and a negative change in another makes it negative in aggregate doesn't it?

Zero change because they spent lots of time and money mitigating it. I guess you could almost call that a net negative.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

skyblueamateur said:

Not in my experience. Although improved it is still taking twice as long and at a much more expensive rate. It’s stabilised and is better then it was but to say it’s as efficient as pre Brexit is utter, utter nonsense.

Whereas it is in my experience, hence the comment.

Most businesses aren't multinationals. It's not surprising that your firm has seen less impact as you were already trading across multiple markets. Scale is also obviously an advantage - I think you said you had a team on it for a few months. For an SME there just aren't the resources to do that.

Although a large proportion of cross border trade is done by multinationals.

And let's not forget that the majority of UK exports are to non EU destinations. Also this percentage is increasing (and it was before Brexit). There is a direction of travel here, which is not surprising given that the EU represents less than 15% of the global economy - and shrinking.

Well obviously. Just pointing out that your experience is just that and not universally applicable. Looking out of the window and seeing the sun doesn't prove it's sunny everywhere.

Why don't you tell Skybueamateur that looking out of his window and seeing gloom doesn't mean it's gloomy everywhere?

Your business as usual comment read more as a universal observation. You've often been fairly dismissive of anyone suggesting that there's a measurable impact on them. It's great that larger multinational businesses are back to normal, but they are the group that you would expect to be able to deal with the changes.

Nope, as mentioned above I was giving my perspective on the situation as I see it in our organsiation - and others where I have enough info from contacts etc. It just doesn't happen to align with your views.

Zero change in one area and a negative change in another makes it negative in aggregate doesn't it?

Depends what the criteria are. We know there is a negative impact on certain areas of trade, which most people on here now focus on as you would expect. My line has always been is that it has not been as bad as many try to make out.

I think most people who voted for Brexit did so far other reasons such as ability to make more of our own decisions and to avoid being eventually sucked into a European superstate in the long term. Things which most people on here ignore or say doesn't matter for some reason.

kingstongraham

After previous extensions from Jan 2022 and Jan 2023, EU standards recognition extended in the UK from Dec 2024 until forever.

kingstongraham

kingstongraham said:

After previous extensions from Jan 2022 and Jan 2023, EU standards recognition extended in the UK from Dec 2024 until forever.

If you've paid to get UKCA certification as well as CE as you were told was required, I'm afraid you've wasted your money.

rjsterry

kingstongraham said:

kingstongraham said:

After previous extensions from Jan 2022 and Jan 2023, EU standards recognition extended in the UK from Dec 2024 until forever.

If you've paid to get UKCA certification as well as CE as you were told was required, I'm afraid you've wasted your money.

Slow hand clap from the construction industry.

Pross

It's almost as though they concluded the standards made sense and that the UK had played a significant role in developing them in the first place.

skyblueamateur

It’s beyond parody now.

verylonglegs

Another example that the whole thing is and always was being led by genuine morons.

briantrumpet

I'm holding onto my hope that this has lanced the Europe boil that has affected both parties for the last forty years. I'm not expecting a return any time soon, but once the 'ills' of the EU are only that they aren't letting the UK do things that it could when we were in it, then I think incrementally we'll find ourselves in a situation where it'll just be easier to shrug our shoulders and say "Well why not?" when the question is posed.

pblakeney

That's the real benefit of Brexit.
We get to do exactly as we were before but now it is because we decided to do so. Nuts.

briantrumpet

There's that 'gravity' word again. I suspect we won't need to sign up to any CTPTPPPTTT kitemarking as they'll accept CE marking. It looks like the UK's attempt to escape gravity was less like a space rocket and more like those people who jump off Brighton Pier.

It's all very well to say you want sovereignty, but you've still got to bow to international demands for various 'standards' (whether they are lower or higher), and each one of those restricts your choices of how 'freestyle' a single nation can go.

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1686283387164573696

I wonder what the next U-turn will be.

ddraver

https://twitter.com/simon_schama/status/1686419864997580803?s=20

rjsterry

skyblueamateur said:

It’s beyond parody now.

And the cherry on the top is that UK based certifying bodies are no longer recognised by the EU, so UK companies now need to go to an EU certifying body to get their CE mark.

tailwindhome

Hall of fame correction to the Guardian article

skyblueamateur

rjsterry said:

skyblueamateur said:

It’s beyond parody now.

And the cherry on the top is that UK based certifying bodies are no longer recognised by the EU, so UK companies now need to go to an EU certifying body to get their CE mark.

I’ve given up paying attention now as it would drive you to distraction and drink.

If you look back over this discussion and see my thoughts on UKCA, I can only laugh at the whole thing.

Our governance is of such a p1ss poor level I’m coming round to Surrey Commuters POV.

ddraver

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1686829994494836736?t=VqBOP_6dWs509yps_WygCA&s=19

briantrumpet

Kind of admitting that Brexiting is inflationary (well, reducing competition normally is), and the best type of Brexit is not actually doing what Johnson 'got done'.