BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Going for the sympathy vote seems to be de rigueur amongst Brexiters now ..
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I think a lot of people who voted for Brexit have been on the receiving end of vitriol.0
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if vitriol is being ridiculed and called a thickie then I think that is acceptable. Death threats less so.TheBigBean said:I think a lot of people who voted for Brexit have been on the receiving end of vitriol.
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The fact that in her article she moans about ‘remoaners’ is belting.
People who voted remain have routinely been branded as ‘Remoaners’ and ‘traitors’ with as much gusto as those branded ‘thick as mince’.
People in glasshouses…….0 -
What about the people outside the two glasshouses?skyblueamateur said:The fact that in her article she moans about ‘remoaners’ is belting.
People who voted remain have routinely been branded as ‘Remoaners’ and ‘traitors’ with as much gusto as those branded ‘thick as mince’.
People in glasshouses…….0 -
On empty shelves
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/04/food-tsar-blames-shortages-on-uks-weird-supermarket-culture?CMP=share_btn_tw&s=09“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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Founder of overpriced faux middle class fast food outlet complains food is too cheap shocker.tailwindhome said:
He's a prize A prick and I would not trust half the words that come out of his mouth.
How did he get the job?
Edit: I see I'm not the only one who's seen the link.
Why don't we f*cking ask people who actually have spent their careers in supermarkets and across the food supply chain hmm? Rather than chef who had a side career in journalism before setting up a fast-food chain.0 -
Probably trivial thread material but people who complain food shouldn't be so cheap need to get in the f*cking sea.
Moronic behaviour.0 -
In other news, this was almost inevitable.
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There are a lot of words making a simple point which is that supermarkets don't like to increase prices when there are shortages. For example, throughout the tomato crisis, I have been buying them, without thought, at 85p for 6. The cucumbers are 75p each. He is suggesting that in other countries this is not the case.rick_chasey said:
Founder of overpriced faux middle class fast food outlet complains food is too cheap shocker.tailwindhome said:
He's a prize A censored and I would not trust half the words that come out of his mouth.
How did he get the job?
Edit: I see I'm not the only one who's seen the link.
Why don't we f*cking ask people who actually have spent their careers in supermarkets and across the food supply chain hmm? Rather than chef who had a side career in journalism before setting up a fast-food chain.0 -
I don't know why we are coveting his opinion, when it's barely more informed than people on here.TheBigBean said:
There are a lot of words making a simple point which is that supermarkets don't like to increase prices when there are shortages. For example, throughout the tomato crisis, I have been buying them, without thought, at 85p for 6. The cucumbers are 75p each. He is suggesting that in other countries this is not the case.rick_chasey said:
Founder of overpriced faux middle class fast food outlet complains food is too cheap shocker.tailwindhome said:
He's a prize A censored and I would not trust half the words that come out of his mouth.
How did he get the job?
Edit: I see I'm not the only one who's seen the link.
Why don't we f*cking ask people who actually have spent their careers in supermarkets and across the food supply chain hmm? Rather than chef who had a side career in journalism before setting up a fast-food chain.
I actually posted an interesting article on localised pricing (via the medium of weatherspoons, who do exactly that) back in 2017 but no-one gave a stuff then.
https://www.ft.com/content/acf3d457-c787-3a51-b265-cb607c7e2ecb
(use https://12ft.io/ if you want to bypass the paywall).
It was interesting, and has some narrow lessons about food pricing.
I don't really see why though we're asking a fast food man about supermarket food supply chains?
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Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
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I'm not, the Guardian is, and they like it because he says everything is broken by the government/big business.rick_chasey said:
I don't really see why though we're asking a fast food man about supermarket food supply chains?0 -
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
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Sure. Brexit *has* made UK food trade more brittle however; it's increased the cost of that trade right?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
So when you get 70% drop in Spanish peppers yield, UK is gonna feel it sooner than Germany.0 -
Where does Germany normally source its peppers from? And have they increased the prices?rick_chasey said:
Sure. Brexit *has* made UK food trade more brittle however; it's increased the cost of that trade right?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
So when you get 70% drop in Spanish peppers yield, UK is gonna feel it sooner than Germany.0 -
Spain provides all of west Europe with the bulk of peppers.TheBigBean said:
Where does Germany normally source its peppers from? And have they increased the prices?rick_chasey said:
Sure. Brexit *has* made UK food trade more brittle however; it's increased the cost of that trade right?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
So when you get 70% drop in Spanish peppers yield, UK is gonna feel it sooner than Germany.
And yes, the harvest is 70% down, so of course pepper prices have risen.
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Has Brexit made trading with the EU easier or harder?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
There will be a myriad of reasons why we have shortages of staff and goods but Brexit has made it more likely.
We were fully integrated into the EU for decades, it will take several years for our economy to adjust. When that adjustment is complete things will not be as good as they once were but it should mean that we do not get so many noticeable shortages.0 -
Surely it depends on whether it is cheap because the suppliers are having to sell at less than the cost of production? If that is happening then it can only be sustained for a very short time before the suppliers call it a day. Also, it's not good if cheap relies on imports from countries using questionable production techniques.rick_chasey said:Probably trivial thread material but people who complain food shouldn't be so cheap need to get in the f*cking sea.
Moronic behaviour.
Cheap sustainable food is obviously not a bad thing.0 -
Set healthy and sustainable parameters, and encourage it to be as cheap as possible.Pross said:
Surely it depends on whether it is cheap because the suppliers are having to sell at less than the cost of production? If that is happening then it can only be sustained for a very short time before the suppliers call it a day. Also, it's not good if cheap relies on imports from countries using questionable production techniques.rick_chasey said:Probably trivial thread material but people who complain food shouldn't be so cheap need to get in the f*cking sea.
Moronic behaviour.
Cheap sustainable food is obviously not a bad thing.
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...and this is exactly why we have shortages. Cough up the extra or do without.rick_chasey said:
Spain provides all of west Europe with the bulk of peppers.TheBigBean said:
Where does Germany normally source its peppers from? And have they increased the prices?rick_chasey said:
Sure. Brexit *has* made UK food trade more brittle however; it's increased the cost of that trade right?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
So when you get 70% drop in Spanish peppers yield, UK is gonna feel it sooner than Germany.
And yes, the harvest is 70% down, so of course pepper prices have risen.
Our supermarkets (and customers) do not want to cough up.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
But in the UK supermarket prices haven't risen, and I don't know about peppers, but a lot of the UK's tomatoes used to come from the UK and Netherlands. Therefore, if Germany always sourced all its veg from Spain and has put prices up, it is hardly surprising there isn't a shortage.rick_chasey said:
Spain provides all of west Europe with the bulk of peppers.TheBigBean said:
Where does Germany normally source its peppers from? And have they increased the prices?rick_chasey said:
Sure. Brexit *has* made UK food trade more brittle however; it's increased the cost of that trade right?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
So when you get 70% drop in Spanish peppers yield, UK is gonna feel it sooner than Germany.
And yes, the harvest is 70% down, so of course pepper prices have risen.
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Brexit has made trade harder. That doesn't mean it is always the explanation. There were shortages before Brexit. There will be shortages in the future.surrey_commuter said:
Has Brexit made trading with the EU easier or harder?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
There will be a myriad of reasons why we have shortages of staff and goods but Brexit has made it more likely.
We were fully integrated into the EU for decades, it will take several years for our economy to adjust. When that adjustment is complete things will not be as good as they once were but it should mean that we do not get so many noticeable shortages.
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So it's more complicated than that as different fruit and veg at different times of the year cost different amounts. Some farmers recognise that being first in the season commands a higher price for their produce so they try to make their food be fully ripe earlier in the year.TheBigBean said:
But in the UK supermarket prices haven't risen, and I don't know about peppers, but a lot of the UK's tomatoes used to come from the UK and Netherlands. Therefore, if Germany always sourced all its veg from Spain and has put prices up, it is hardly surprising there isn't a shortage.rick_chasey said:
Spain provides all of west Europe with the bulk of peppers.TheBigBean said:
Where does Germany normally source its peppers from? And have they increased the prices?rick_chasey said:
Sure. Brexit *has* made UK food trade more brittle however; it's increased the cost of that trade right?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
So when you get 70% drop in Spanish peppers yield, UK is gonna feel it sooner than Germany.
And yes, the harvest is 70% down, so of course pepper prices have risen.
Plus there are different models and fixed contracts farmers and producers enter into which they are obliged to meet, regardless of their costs etc. Farmers also plant according to anticipate demand and future contracts etc.
The market is fairly complicated.
You don't see any of this at the front end of supermarkets, but it's quite common for supermarkets to make small losses on certain fresh food at certain times of year.
That's worth it as having a reputation for not having staples like peppers is probably worse than just sucking up small losses for some part of the year. Supermarkets only work if they are indeed supermarkets. But they aren't in a position to change the price on a weekly basis up and down; customers like predictability.0 -
Think of it this way. Demand for food in aggegrate is fairly predictable, but supply of food is hugely dependent the weather and varies substantially each year.
Yet the prices of our food in the supermarket are remarkably stable. There's an awful lot going on behind the scenes there to make it so.0 -
rick_chasey said:
So it's more complicated than that as different fruit and veg at different times of the year cost different amounts. Some farmers recognise that being first in the season commands a higher price for their produce so they try to make their food be fully ripe earlier in the year.TheBigBean said:
But in the UK supermarket prices haven't risen, and I don't know about peppers, but a lot of the UK's tomatoes used to come from the UK and Netherlands. Therefore, if Germany always sourced all its veg from Spain and has put prices up, it is hardly surprising there isn't a shortage.rick_chasey said:
Spain provides all of west Europe with the bulk of peppers.TheBigBean said:
Where does Germany normally source its peppers from? And have they increased the prices?rick_chasey said:
Sure. Brexit *has* made UK food trade more brittle however; it's increased the cost of that trade right?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
So when you get 70% drop in Spanish peppers yield, UK is gonna feel it sooner than Germany.
And yes, the harvest is 70% down, so of course pepper prices have risen.
Plus there are different models and fixed contracts farmers and producers enter into which they are obliged to meet, regardless of their costs etc. Farmers also plant according to anticipate demand and future contracts etc.
The market is fairly complicated.
You don't see any of this at the front end of supermarkets, but it's quite common for supermarkets to make small losses on certain fresh food at certain times of year.
That's worth it as having a reputation for not having staples like peppers is probably worse than just sucking up small losses for some part of the year. Supermarkets only work if they are indeed supermarkets. But they aren't in a position to change the price on a weekly basis up and down; customers like predictability.
I think that's the bit, along with the one-sided contracts with growers, that screws the market though. More dynamics pricing can't be that hard. I actually do like to eat seasonally, and when you visit proper food markets (as I do in France), you soon get to know what to buy and when. And you then look forward to the changing season, and low prices for what's 'in'.
Supermarkets have sold us the idea that all foods should be available all year round, at low prices. Perhaps we need to relearn. Supermarkets are no more 'inevitable' than private motorised transport, but we've become accustomed to both, and unable to envisage an alternative.0 -
Eventually you'll realise in a global market, eating locally and seasonably is even less sustainable than the current model.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
So it's more complicated than that as different fruit and veg at different times of the year cost different amounts. Some farmers recognise that being first in the season commands a higher price for their produce so they try to make their food be fully ripe earlier in the year.TheBigBean said:
But in the UK supermarket prices haven't risen, and I don't know about peppers, but a lot of the UK's tomatoes used to come from the UK and Netherlands. Therefore, if Germany always sourced all its veg from Spain and has put prices up, it is hardly surprising there isn't a shortage.rick_chasey said:
Spain provides all of west Europe with the bulk of peppers.TheBigBean said:
Where does Germany normally source its peppers from? And have they increased the prices?rick_chasey said:
Sure. Brexit *has* made UK food trade more brittle however; it's increased the cost of that trade right?TheBigBean said:
All seems pretty simple to me. The UK/Dutch market collapsed because of energy prices. The gap in the market then needed to be sourced from other markets further afield which was always going to be harder particularly when the British consumer won't pay more and transport costs clearly matter (how else can local producers compete?).rick_chasey said:Anyway, I don't think it's a Brexit issue as much as anything that involved heavy trade with the EU is a Brexit issue, i.e. Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU than it was and has made that trade more brittle.
It's more acute in fresh food because of the time pressures of the trade, which is also why there is more trade with EU countries in food than say in widgets, but I don't think there is a a specific food and brexit dynamic.
Arguably Brexit has increased UK reliance on foreign food because it has so affected the labour market for UK pickers, but no brexiter seemed bothered by that and saw it as a failing of young people not wanting to do back-breaking work.
So when you get 70% drop in Spanish peppers yield, UK is gonna feel it sooner than Germany.
And yes, the harvest is 70% down, so of course pepper prices have risen.
Plus there are different models and fixed contracts farmers and producers enter into which they are obliged to meet, regardless of their costs etc. Farmers also plant according to anticipate demand and future contracts etc.
The market is fairly complicated.
You don't see any of this at the front end of supermarkets, but it's quite common for supermarkets to make small losses on certain fresh food at certain times of year.
That's worth it as having a reputation for not having staples like peppers is probably worse than just sucking up small losses for some part of the year. Supermarkets only work if they are indeed supermarkets. But they aren't in a position to change the price on a weekly basis up and down; customers like predictability.
I think that's the bit, along with the one-sided contracts with growers, that screws the market though. More dynamics pricing can't be that hard. I actually do like to eat seasonally, and when you visit proper food markets (as I do in France), you soon get to know what to buy and when. And you then look forward to the changing season, and low prices for what's 'in'.
Supermarkets have sold us the idea that all foods should be available all year round, at low prices. Perhaps we need to relearn. Supermarkets are no more 'inevitable' than private motorised transport, but we've become accustomed to both, and unable to envisage an alternative.
It's the ultimate rich middle class position that food should be local and seasonal.
We've been moving food around for Millenia.0 -
On Sunday Tescos had no peppers fresh or frozen- save for a couple of stray packets of chopped peppers. About a third of a pepper in a little bag for 1.20
Lidl had boxes of loose red peppers. Loads of them. But I'd doubt if they'd get onto the shelves on Tesco. Huge, mishappen and some overripe. But available for sale.
Clearly supply chain decisions being taken which result in this scenario“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
