BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    morstar said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Because Sunak is getting a very soft ride and it’s annoying me a lot.

    Lad was chancellor until last year, we have inflation at 10% and Braverman wrecking all she can in the home office.

    What has actually done?

    I don’t think he’s done a whole lot. But he has got a chancellor in place who has steadied the ship, is potentially breaking the NI deadlock (he has at least addressed and issue without simply posturing).

    So yes, he gets a lot of benefit of a low bar, but it’s forward progress. And progress with such a shambolic party of empty vessels behind him is far from a given.

    Our politics is broken, it is slightly less worse currently than it has been.
    He didn’t even chose the chancellor. It was foisted upon the party as anyone he’d have put in would have made the markets puke even more.
    _
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    rick_chasey said:

    morstar said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Because Sunak is getting a very soft ride and it’s annoying me a lot.

    Lad was chancellor until last year, we have inflation at 10% and Braverman wrecking all she can in the home office.

    What has actually done?

    I don’t think he’s done a whole lot. But he has got a chancellor in place who has steadied the ship, is potentially breaking the NI deadlock (he has at least addressed and issue without simply posturing).

    So yes, he gets a lot of benefit of a low bar, but it’s forward progress. And progress with such a shambolic party of empty vessels behind him is far from a given.

    Our politics is broken, it is slightly less worse currently than it has been.
    He didn’t even chose the chancellor. It was foisted upon the party as anyone he’d have put in would have made the markets puke even more.
    So, what do you expect to happen? What response is acceptable?

    The Tories are a shitshow. Rishi has at least bought a sense of calm and maturity to a dysfunctional party purged of critical thinkers. He’s a part of that party and part of the problem but he is far superior to what we have suffered in recent times.

    We also have incompetence fatigue. For their messes to be in the news constantly, they would need to be getting increasingly worse.

    Without any mechanism to force a GE, we have them for nearly 2 more years. You can either suffer with impotent rage or recognise the better bits for what they are.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Needs to get pilloried for his choice of cabinet.

    Needs to accept some responsibility for UK’s dire economic performance (relative to other G7) post pandemic. He was chancellor, after all.

    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    morstar said:

    rick_chasey said:

    morstar said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Because Sunak is getting a very soft ride and it’s annoying me a lot.

    Lad was chancellor until last year, we have inflation at 10% and Braverman wrecking all she can in the home office.

    What has actually done?

    I don’t think he’s done a whole lot. But he has got a chancellor in place who has steadied the ship, is potentially breaking the NI deadlock (he has at least addressed and issue without simply posturing).

    So yes, he gets a lot of benefit of a low bar, but it’s forward progress. And progress with such a shambolic party of empty vessels behind him is far from a given.

    Our politics is broken, it is slightly less worse currently than it has been.
    He didn’t even chose the chancellor. It was foisted upon the party as anyone he’d have put in would have made the markets puke even more.
    So, what do you expect to happen? What response is acceptable?

    The Tories are a shitshow. Rishi has at least bought a sense of calm and maturity to a dysfunctional party purged of critical thinkers. He’s a part of that party and part of the problem but he is far superior to what we have suffered in recent times.

    We also have incompetence fatigue. For their messes to be in the news constantly, they would need to be getting increasingly worse.

    Without any mechanism to force a GE, we have them for nearly 2 more years. You can either suffer with impotent rage or recognise the better bits for what they are.

    And, TBH, if he does manage to partly disempower the DUP & Brexitloons over this, and has half a brain that can see that continuing friction with the EU benefits no-one, well, who knows? Though I'll not hold my breath, for obvious reasons, not least as I'm very likely to be disappointed.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    rick_chasey said:

    Needs to get pilloried for his choice of cabinet.

    Needs to accept some responsibility for UK’s dire economic performance (relative to other G7) post pandemic. He was chancellor, after all.

    I must admit to disappointment at his cabinet. But then you have to give him the benefit of the doubt and recognise a need to keep the party together to have any chance of moving forwards.

    Actually starting to govern rather than just inwardly squabble is a major step forward.

    That that is all the Tories are capable of is damning in itself but we are where we are and we are at least on an upward trajectory from an appalling mess of their own making.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    That F35 fighter jet that fell off the Royal Navy aircraft carrier was worth a hundred million quid.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    edited February 2023
    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    kingstongraham said:

    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.

    Does that mean this thread is finally at an end?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.

    Does that mean this thread is finally at an end?
    You are in control of what you see....
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.

    Does that mean this thread is finally at an end?
    You are in control of what you see....
    I that a yes or a no?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.

    Does that mean this thread is finally at an end?
    You are in control of what you see....
    I that a yes or a no?
    It's a no.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    edited February 2023
    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.

    Does that mean this thread is finally at an end?
    You are in control of what you see....
    I that a yes or a no?
    It's a no.
    Oh

    Cheers
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Does this mean NI is getting what was available to the whole UK under May?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    kingstongraham said:

    Does this mean NI is getting what was available to the whole UK under May?

    No, but it is a big step forwards
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Not out of the question that Rishi Sunak has played a blinder here.

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    tailwindhome said:

    Not out of the question that Rishi Sunak has played a blinder here.


    The 'Stormont Brake' appears to be a clever thing: it can only be applied if the Assembly is sitting, so if DUP continue to refuse to elect a speaker, then the power to block new EU regulations on goods won't be able to be applied.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    rick_chasey said:

    Because Sunak is getting a very soft ride and it’s annoying me a lot.

    Lad was chancellor until last year, we have inflation at 10% and Braverman wrecking all she can in the home office.

    What has actually done?

    Pffft. Like there was anything left to wreck.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    Almost looking forward to Wrecker Frost's reaction to this.

    If Sunak achieves nothing else before the Tories are voted out en masse, it might be to demonstrate that constructive negotiation with the EU, rather than trying to wreck everything in sight, is better for everyone. I somewhat doubt if Sunak can keep the nutjobs in line, but I hope he can, after this, given he has (potentially) taken away one of their wrecking mechanisms.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    I think the Ukraine/Putin war has probably softened hardliners. The EU and it's partners working together makes sense. Why we shouldn't have left in the first place.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    One for the irony thread maybe.

    Sunak's big political win, which may be his legacy as PM, is on something no one who votes for his party actually cares about
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    From Dougan's legal and EU-sympathetic viewpoint... seems OK.

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    tailwindhome said:

    One for the irony thread maybe.

    Sunak's big political win, which may be his legacy as PM, is on something no one who votes for his party actually cares about

    You think the DUP will accept it? It seems like some tweaks to avoid the ridiculous (eg medicine, Sainsbury's sausages) but not enough to avoid the look of a border in the "wrong" place.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    TheBigBean said:

    tailwindhome said:

    One for the irony thread maybe.

    Sunak's big political win, which may be his legacy as PM, is on something no one who votes for his party actually cares about

    You think the DUP will accept it? It seems like some tweaks to avoid the ridiculous (eg medicine, Sainsbury's sausages) but not enough to avoid the look of a border in the "wrong" place.

    I think Sunak might, to adapt Johnson, say "Fvck the DUP", but preferably not in earshot of them or any journalists. As Starmer has pretty much said that Labour will vote in favour, I can't see that the DUP can hold Sunak hostage. And with the Stormont Brake as a political bind for them, they've not got much room to block it, as far as I can see.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    briantrumpet said:

    TheBigBean said:

    tailwindhome said:

    One for the irony thread maybe.

    Sunak's big political win, which may be his legacy as PM, is on something no one who votes for his party actually cares about

    You think the DUP will accept it? It seems like some tweaks to avoid the ridiculous (eg medicine, Sainsbury's sausages) but not enough to avoid the look of a border in the "wrong" place.

    I think Sunak might, to adapt Johnson, say "Fvck the DUP", but preferably not in earshot of them or any journalists. As Starmer has pretty much said that Labour will vote in favour, I can't see that the DUP can hold Sunak hostage. And with the Stormont Brake as a political bind for them, they've not got much room to block it, as far as I can see.
    Same as they are now, but with less justification?
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Nice move calling it the Windsor Framework. 🤨
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    kingstongraham said:

    briantrumpet said:

    TheBigBean said:

    tailwindhome said:

    One for the irony thread maybe.

    Sunak's big political win, which may be his legacy as PM, is on something no one who votes for his party actually cares about

    You think the DUP will accept it? It seems like some tweaks to avoid the ridiculous (eg medicine, Sainsbury's sausages) but not enough to avoid the look of a border in the "wrong" place.

    I think Sunak might, to adapt Johnson, say "Fvck the DUP", but preferably not in earshot of them or any journalists. As Starmer has pretty much said that Labour will vote in favour, I can't see that the DUP can hold Sunak hostage. And with the Stormont Brake as a political bind for them, they've not got much room to block it, as far as I can see.
    Same as they are now, but with less justification?

    I guess that Sunak not being a lying untrustworthy ärsehole and being willing to compromise means that VdL felt easier in making enough movement to defuse most of the DUP's demands, at least to the extent that if they are still obstructive, it will be perceived as just being unreasonably obstructive.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    TheBigBean said:

    tailwindhome said:

    One for the irony thread maybe.

    Sunak's big political win, which may be his legacy as PM, is on something no one who votes for his party actually cares about

    You think the DUP will accept it? It seems like some tweaks to avoid the ridiculous (eg medicine, Sainsbury's sausages) but not enough to avoid the look of a border in the "wrong" place.
    I think they'll find a political narrative to move forward with it, while opposing it.

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,115
    I think it is fair to be highly critical of someone, whilst retaining the ability to recognise when they have (seemingly) done something worth commending.

    Sunak seems to have approached this was a genuine degree of dilligence and an eagerness to reach a mutually beneficial agreement. He has got some significant concessions and started the long overdue process of reconciliation with the EU.

    Like most, I am guessing the ERG twunts and DUP will try and shat all over it but I think their influence is no longer what it was.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    Haha, now that would be funny.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/27/rishi-sunak-whip-boris-johnson-northern-ireland-protocol

    Under Sunak’s leadership, dealing with the most intense challenges, the one thing his own party might offer him is unqualified support. Johnson has let it be known that he opposes the protocol, which he himself once described as “an ideal solution” to the Northern Ireland-Brexit conundrum. He then introduced a bill to wreck it if it did not suit the DUP, and has now declared the non-activation of that bill “a great mistake”, allegedly with a four-letter word in the Commons. He has allowed himself to become the focus of opposition to Sunak’s deal in the Commons.

    When he was prime minister, Johnson slammed his fist on the table and told anyone who disagreed with his version of Brexit to get out. He cleared his party of dissenters. Sunak may be justified in responding in kind. Sunak will probably bring his deal to a Commons vote at some point. Though he will get Labour support to carry it through, he can reasonably impose a three-line whip on his own backbenchers. Should Johnson defy it, Sunak would only be mimicking his predecessor in withdrawing the whip and suggesting he might fight the next election as an independent.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Blimey.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition

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