BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2023
    What a f@cking pr!ck
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Probably best you don't retrain as a counsellor.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,616
    Hard to rustle up much if any sympathy for someone suffering from any type of fallout from Brexit, given he was one of the architects of the chaotic approach that led to the fallout.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    edited February 2023
    Don't think it's that hard to see past the politics, but each to their own.
    Seems like a genuine admission that a lot of things got out hand.

    DUP now on still grumbling that what Johnson said hasn't happened 😂😂.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    rjsterry said:

    Probably best you don't retrain as a counsellor.


    I was thinking along similar (if not quite as strong) lines as RC, as the guy is a jerk. Whilst obviously not wishing any sort of mental anguish on anyone, I'm not sure at what point being a jerk might makes it more likely that you're going to get some serious pushback that might cause you grief.

    Given that Raab has, reportedly, caused all sorts of problems for those suffering as a result of his tendencies, how sympathetic should we be to him if he later reported he'd had problems?

    Genuine question. I'm really not sure.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    Probably best you don't retrain as a counsellor.


    I was thinking along similar (if not quite as strong) lines as RC, as the guy is a jerk. Whilst obviously not wishing any sort of mental anguish on anyone, I'm not sure at what point being a jerk might makes it more likely that you're going to get some serious pushback that might cause you grief.

    Given that Raab has, reportedly, caused all sorts of problems for those suffering as a result of his tendencies, how sympathetic should we be to him if he later reported he'd had problems?

    Genuine question. I'm really not sure.
    I think the difference is that Baker seems to have reached some degree of self-reflection. Not sure Raab shows any sign of such.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,115
    edited February 2023
    Given that Raab has, reportedly, caused all sorts of problems for those suffering as a result of his tendencies, how sympathetic should we be to him if he later reported he'd had problems?

    Genuine question. I'm really not sure.


    It depends on what led to a person's behaviours. Those who have suffered trauma can internalise that trauma and project it on to others in a negative and destructive way i.e. Bullying, abuse etc. I will have sympathy for people like that who eventually recognise their issues and seek help to address their behaviour.

    Raab, IMO, is not in this category. He appears to be a narcissistic bully who offers no acknowledgment or acceptance of his behaviour or the impact it has. People who abuse, hurt, denigrate, bully others because it is a personality trait or a psychological defect don't get a free pass.

    I could be wrong, and if it transpires Raab has had genuine issues in the past, admits his errors and takes full responsibility for his actions, fair enough. I ain't holding my breath though!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    Probably best you don't retrain as a counsellor.


    I was thinking along similar (if not quite as strong) lines as RC, as the guy is a jerk. Whilst obviously not wishing any sort of mental anguish on anyone, I'm not sure at what point being a jerk might makes it more likely that you're going to get some serious pushback that might cause you grief.

    Given that Raab has, reportedly, caused all sorts of problems for those suffering as a result of his tendencies, how sympathetic should we be to him if he later reported he'd had problems?

    Genuine question. I'm really not sure.
    I think the difference is that Baker seems to have reached some degree of self-reflection. Not sure Raab shows any sign of such.
    It’s a bit late for all of that.

    He can’t help but make it all about him.
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    Probably best you don't retrain as a counsellor.


    I was thinking along similar (if not quite as strong) lines as RC, as the guy is a jerk. Whilst obviously not wishing any sort of mental anguish on anyone, I'm not sure at what point being a jerk might makes it more likely that you're going to get some serious pushback that might cause you grief.

    Given that Raab has, reportedly, caused all sorts of problems for those suffering as a result of his tendencies, how sympathetic should we be to him if he later reported he'd had problems?

    Genuine question. I'm really not sure.
    I think the difference is that Baker seems to have reached some degree of self-reflection. Not sure Raab shows any sign of such.
    It’s a bit late for all of that.

    He can’t help but make it all about him.

    The timing seems to be rather 'coincidental', as he suddenly needs to explain why he's not a nutter any more.

    Maybe Dorries inspired him.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    I'm not sure a selection of HoP Lobby interviews give an in depth view of the person. I also think wanting some sort of retribution for somebody who was at most a cheerleader is not very becoming and a bit pointless.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    He's a man I can't really figure out, but I'd say his determination to rebuild a relationship with Dublin has been an important part of getting to this point.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    rjsterry said:

    I'm not sure a selection of HoP Lobby interviews give an in depth view of the person. I also think wanting some sort of retribution for somebody who was at most a cheerleader is not very becoming and a bit pointless.

    His complaint about populism made me want to throw the phone across the room
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Listening to Cleverly just now having to defend ripping up Johnson’s deal and my interpretation of his words was “we had to chuck something in so we could say we’d got Brexit done”. Basically sums up Johnson’s stint in charge - do the bare minimum and claim a victory.
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    Nice to have a sensible, statesman like leader in charge again.

    Credit where it’s due.

    Just confirms what a self-serving, lying, incompetent, egotistical piece of w@nk Johnson was
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    I'm not sure a selection of HoP Lobby interviews give an in depth view of the person. I also think wanting some sort of retribution for somebody who was at most a cheerleader is not very becoming and a bit pointless.

    His complaint about populism made me want to throw the phone across the room

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Pross said:

    Listening to Cleverly just now having to defend ripping up Johnson’s deal and my interpretation of his words was “we had to chuck something in so we could say we’d got Brexit done”. Basically sums up Johnson’s stint in charge - do the bare minimum and claim a victory.

    What should Johnson have done differently to bring this deal about?

    I think this deal has only happened because we left with the lies he told. It was not available to him in 2019, but is only possible because he made the alternative so much worse.

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    Dougan's more detailed second reading.

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2023
    briantrumpet said:

    Dougan's more detailed second reading.

    AKA they rolled the tu rd in some glitter.
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    rick_chasey said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Dougan's more detailed second reading.

    AKA they rolled the tu rd in some glitter.

    There's a lot of that, and the EU is letting Sunak claim it as a win, but there is some movement in there to make it sellable as an improvement.

    Still no noise from Johnson or Frost, as far as I've seen. Perhaps Johnson is taking his time writing two opposing articles, and trying to decide which stance is going to benefit him more.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    A glittery tu rd is better than just a tu rd, granted.

    Sunak looking competent is the only route to victory so the tory faithful would do well to shut up.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    I think it's that finally there is someone in charge who is willing to consider the details and not just tell everyone that they can tear up any paperwork they have to do.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.

    Does that mean this thread is finally at an end?
    Patience, Young jedi. It has to get through parliament first. Although if it does, all this nonsense about Brexit not being done should drop away and the thread can finally have the dignified burial so desperately deserves :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    edited February 2023
    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.

    Does that mean this thread is finally at an end?
    Patience, Young jedi. It has to get through parliament first. Although if it does, all this nonsense about Brexit not being done should drop away and the thread can finally have the dignified burial so desperately deserves :)

    You might be right, but I might start up a GB-EU thread to discuss how improving relations change the landscape to mitigate the continuing fallout of the lunacy.

    Meanwhile on Planet Stevograph:


    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    rick_chasey said:

    A glittery tu rd is better than just a tu rd, granted.

    Sunak looking competent is the only route to victory so the tory faithful would do well to shut up.

    To me, this is the crux of where they are right now.

    Have a little grumble to appeal to their core but suck it up with an eye on December 24.

    Or stick to ideological purity?

    I’m intrigued to which way they go.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    morstar said:

    rick_chasey said:

    A glittery tu rd is better than just a tu rd, granted.

    Sunak looking competent is the only route to victory so the tory faithful would do well to shut up.

    To me, this is the crux of where they are right now.

    Have a little grumble to appeal to their core but suck it up with an eye on December 24.

    Or stick to ideological purity?

    I’m intrigued to which way they go.

    It would be hilarious is Johnson turned out to be the Corbyn for Tories.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    Probably best you don't retrain as a counsellor.


    I was thinking along similar (if not quite as strong) lines as RC, as the guy is a jerk. Whilst obviously not wishing any sort of mental anguish on anyone, I'm not sure at what point being a jerk might makes it more likely that you're going to get some serious pushback that might cause you grief.

    Given that Raab has, reportedly, caused all sorts of problems for those suffering as a result of his tendencies, how sympathetic should we be to him if he later reported he'd had problems?

    Genuine question. I'm really not sure.
    I think the difference is that Baker seems to have reached some degree of self-reflection. Not sure Raab shows any sign of such.
    He said in that clip that what took its toll on him was all the rebellions that he had to lead, "Brexit, Covid Recovery group, net zero scrutiny group, the tax stuff with Conservative Way Forward".

    I believe he still thinks he had to do that.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    briantrumpet said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Looks like we have a deal.

    Partially fixing what he helped break deserves some very muted praise.

    Does that mean this thread is finally at an end?
    Patience, Young jedi. It has to get through parliament first. Although if it does, all this nonsense about Brexit not being done should drop away and the thread can finally have the dignified burial so desperately deserves :)

    You might be right, but I might start up a GB-EU thread to discuss how improving relations change the landscape to mitigate the continuing fallout of the lunacy.

    Meanwhile on Planet Stevograph:


    We already have a suitable thread for post Brexit matters, I started it. Just given a little bump :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    I am starting to think you lot are doing it deliberately.
    The referendum question was whether we should leave the EU, this became known as Brexit.
    We left the EU (Google it)
    Brexit is done

    If you think Brexit is not done then you probably have Stockholm Syndrome.

    You are confusing the act of leaving the EU with our future relationship with the EU.

    Genuine question - do republican Aussies consider themselves as still in the act of leaving the British Empire?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?

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