BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
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surrey_commuter said:
I am starting to think you lot are doing it deliberately.
The referendum question was whether we should leave the EU, this became known as Brexit.
We left the EU (Google it)
Brexit is done
If you think Brexit is not done then you probably have Stockholm Syndrome.
You are confusing the act of leaving the EU with our future relationship with the EU.
Genuine question - do republican Aussies consider themselves as still in the act of leaving the British Empire?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It needs cross party consent anyway, so I'm not sure that matters.kingstongraham said:Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?
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kingstongraham said:
Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?
That's how I read it - so, if it's ratified by Parliament and the NI Assembly doesn't sit, then there's no brake.0 -
30 MLAs across multiple parties could be DUP plus UUP couldn't it? Just means the DUP can't do it on their own.TheBigBean said:
It needs cross party consent anyway, so I'm not sure that matters.kingstongraham said:Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?
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*Some* degree. More work to do with his therapist.kingstongraham said:
He said in that clip that what took its toll on him was all the rebellions that he had to lead, "Brexit, Covid Recovery group, net zero scrutiny group, the tax stuff with Conservative Way Forward".rjsterry said:
I think the difference is that Baker seems to have reached some degree of self-reflection. Not sure Raab shows any sign of such.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:Probably best you don't retrain as a counsellor.
I was thinking along similar (if not quite as strong) lines as RC, as the guy is a jerk. Whilst obviously not wishing any sort of mental anguish on anyone, I'm not sure at what point being a jerk might makes it more likely that you're going to get some serious pushback that might cause you grief.
Given that Raab has, reportedly, caused all sorts of problems for those suffering as a result of his tendencies, how sympathetic should we be to him if he later reported he'd had problems?
Genuine question. I'm really not sure.
I believe he still thinks he had to do that.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Maybe you are right. I thought I read it needed cross community support to come into effect, but I can't find that any more.kingstongraham said:
30 MLAs across multiple parties could be DUP plus UUP couldn't it? Just means the DUP can't do it on their own.TheBigBean said:
It needs cross party consent anyway, so I'm not sure that matters.kingstongraham said:Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?
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Bless
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
What exactly they mean is a subject of some debate - it needs clarificationTheBigBean said:
Maybe you are right. I thought I read it needed cross community support to come into effect, but I can't find that any more.kingstongraham said:
30 MLAs across multiple parties could be DUP plus UUP couldn't it? Just means the DUP can't do it on their own.TheBigBean said:
It needs cross party consent anyway, so I'm not sure that matters.kingstongraham said:Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
tailwindhome said:
What exactly they mean is a subject of some debate - it needs clarificationTheBigBean said:
Maybe you are right. I thought I read it needed cross community support to come into effect, but I can't find that any more.kingstongraham said:
30 MLAs across multiple parties could be DUP plus UUP couldn't it? Just means the DUP can't do it on their own.TheBigBean said:
It needs cross party consent anyway, so I'm not sure that matters.kingstongraham said:Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?
What? You're not telling us that Brexit isn't actually, finally, totally done, are you?0 -
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Nice of GB to downgrade their economy to let NI catch up“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Oh sweet summer child, no.briantrumpet said:tailwindhome said:
What exactly they mean is a subject of some debate - it needs clarificationTheBigBean said:
Maybe you are right. I thought I read it needed cross community support to come into effect, but I can't find that any more.kingstongraham said:
30 MLAs across multiple parties could be DUP plus UUP couldn't it? Just means the DUP can't do it on their own.TheBigBean said:
It needs cross party consent anyway, so I'm not sure that matters.kingstongraham said:Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?
What? You're not telling us that Brexit isn't actually, finally, totally done, are you?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I mean this was available to a somewhat larger area for a while. Wonder what stopped that?tailwindhome said:Bless
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This would be funny if it were not for the fact that it's about their level of logic.
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Bring it on. Love to the family.0
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30 MLAs across multiple parties could be DUP plus UUP couldn't it? Just means the DUP can't do it on their own.
I believe so, the text specifically states 30 MLA's coming together from "two or more parties".
I am not a legal expert but I think the "brake" is a clever bit of politicking on both sides. It is effectively saying (largely aimed at the DUP I think), you can veto regulations but only if you form a sitting government and get agreement from outside your party.
In essence it gives the DUP what they want, a say in how things get done, but only if they sign up to power sharing and restore the status quo. If they turn it down, it makes them look like they have no intention of reforming a government. UK/EU can say "Look we have given you the power of veto (in principle, anyway), and still you don't want a seat at the table".
I think it places a lot of pressure on the DUP now (and ERG by extension), but if we have learnt anything, it is to expect them not to take the logical and rational way out!0 -
I assume that is a satirical sketch?briantrumpet said:This would be funny if it were not for the fact that it's about their level of logic.
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To be more precise, if there is a sitting assembly/administration, you can request the UK government to look into negotiating that with the EU - if you get agreement from outside your party. While the negotiations are going on, the change is suspended for four weeks in NI.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:30 MLAs across multiple parties could be DUP plus UUP couldn't it? Just means the DUP can't do it on their own.
I believe so, the text specifically states 30 MLA's coming together from "two or more parties".
I am not a legal expert but I think the "brake" is a clever bit of politicking on both sides. It is effectively saying (largely aimed at the DUP I think), you can veto regulations but only if you form a sitting government and get agreement from outside your party.
In essence it gives the DUP what they want, a say in how things get done, but only if they sign up to power sharing and restore the status quo. If they turn it down, it makes them look like they have no intention of reforming a government. UK/EU can say "Look we have given you the power of veto (in principle, anyway), and still you don't want a seat at the table".
I think it places a lot of pressure on the DUP now (and ERG by extension), but if we have learnt anything, it is to expect them not to take the logical and rational way out!
It sounds complicated.
But still, if Sinn Fein feels strongly enough that it doesn't want the objection to happen, surely it can prevent the UK government having the opportunity of stopping it by resigning from the executive.0 -
Pross said:
I assume that is a satirical sketch?briantrumpet said:This would be funny if it were not for the fact that it's about their level of logic.
Hard to tell, I'll admit.
If, and it's a big if, populism has taken a bit of a backward step here, with pragmatism gaining an edge, it might be a turning point. If more people can see Johnson and the Tory loons for what they are, maybe something can be salvaged from the whole sorry saga. A long way to go yet though, and I'll not hold my breath.0 -
It sounds complicated.
Deliberately so, I think. It's a bit of sleight of hand really, a clever one at that. Here's your veto, no wait it's over here now!
I have read various political commentators suggests it is similar to Norway's agreement. The idea being a theoretical veto is in place, but in practice it is so complicated that no one will actually dare trigger it. Apparently the Norwegians tried it once but the EU called their bluff and never went through with it.0 -
Apart from the single market bit.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:It sounds complicated.
Deliberately so, I think. It's a bit of sleight of hand really, a clever one at that. Here's your veto, no wait it's over here now!
I have read various political commentators suggests it is similar to Norway's agreement. The idea being a theoretical veto is in place, but in practice it is so complicated that no one will actually dare trigger it. Apparently the Norwegians tried it once but the EU called their bluff and never went through with it.0 -
On the BBC website it says that "a petition of concern normally requires the signatures of 30 MLAs (members of the legislative assembly) from two or more parties, meaning an issue would then be subject to a cross-community vote requiring a majority of unionists and nationalists, before it could proceed in the assembly."TheBigBean said:
Maybe you are right. I thought I read it needed cross community support to come into effect, but I can't find that any more.kingstongraham said:
30 MLAs across multiple parties could be DUP plus UUP couldn't it? Just means the DUP can't do it on their own.TheBigBean said:
It needs cross party consent anyway, so I'm not sure that matters.kingstongraham said:Am I right to think that if the "Stormont Brake" on EU changes can only be applied if Stormont is sitting, then either side can prevent this by doing what the DUP has been doing for the last year?
But for the "Stormont Brake", this would not happen, it would go directly to Westminster to consider once there are 30 signatures from two or more parties, and the EU law would be suspended in NI within 4 weeks while arbitration with the EU happens. But it won't be used for anything trivial.0 -
Trolling or deeply lacking in self awareness?rick_chasey said:
\slidvjhilsdhfglioeshfrlisehfklivtailwindhome said:Bless
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Trolling or deeply lacking in self awareness?
As you said earlier, he now has a glittery turd to polish and sell to the people. Just a further extension of the grand Brexit delusion.0 -
Has he ever explained why he was pro Brexit?MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:Trolling or deeply lacking in self awareness?
As you said earlier, he now has a glittery censored to polish and sell to the people. Just a further extension of the grand Brexit delusion.0 -
Has he ever explained why he was pro Brexit?
Well, he did the official explanation back in 2016
https://rishisunak.com/news/why-i-will-vote-britain-leave-eu-0
Have heard various political commentators suggest it was mainly down to him being a free marketeer at heart0 -
I just wonder how that goes with the great deal that keeps NI but not Britain in the single market. Would he have gone for a whole UK in the single market deal for preference?MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:Has he ever explained why he was pro Brexit?
Well, he did the official explanation back in 2016
https://rishisunak.com/news/why-i-will-vote-britain-leave-eu-0
Have heard various political commentators suggest it was mainly down to him being a free marketeer at heart0 -
I just wonder how that goes with the great deal that keeps NI but not Britain in the single market. Would he have gone for a whole UK in the single market deal for preference?
No idea, you would have to assume that as a free marketeer who wanted out of the single market, that he didn't feel it was "free" enough. I would therefore assume not, with regards the whole of the UK being kept in.
Not sure how that now squares with his suggesting NI being kept in the single market is a great deal.
All feels a bit contradictory, to say the least!0 -
Shine coming off Sunak's deal on day 2“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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tailwindhome said:
Shine coming off Sunak's deal on day 2
Anything in particular? I assume he's not taking Frost's Telegraph criticism to heart...0
