BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Difficulties maybe, but I think derailing a government over this would be absolutely nuts.tailwindhome said:It's a non zero chance that Sunak runs into real difficulties this week over NI.
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Jezyboy said:
Difficulties maybe, but I think derailing a government over this would be absolutely nuts.tailwindhome said:It's a non zero chance that Sunak runs into real difficulties this week over NI.
Have you been following politics lately?0 -
Did I mention incompetence? A thread worth reading, on why there's no shortage of tomatoes in the EU.
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If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
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I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!0 -
Was it Kenneth Williams who said "Autarky, autarky, they've all got it autarky!"?
Might be misremembering...0 -
The thread you linked to above suggested it was more to do with relying too heavily on Morrocan fruit and veg, but not setting up sufficient direct imports.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
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rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.1 -
It’s also inefficient to not use the land or the labour that we have available. If a business is hugely successful in a narrow area, maybe it doesn’t need to explore every commercial opportunity available to it. As a country, we do not have that luxury.
Also, specifically in Ricks case, there seems to be an inability to see that some people would rather live and work in the country.0 -
Is anyone stopping farmers doing farming?morstar said:It’s also inefficient to not use the land or the labour that we have available. If a business is hugely successful in a narrow area, maybe it doesn’t need to explore every commercial opportunity available to it. As a country, we do not have that luxury.
Also, specifically in Ricks case, there seems to be an inability to see that some people would rather live and work in the country.0 -
We buy from the lowest bidder and that currently means importing.kingstongraham said:
Is anyone stopping farmers doing farming?morstar said:It’s also inefficient to not use the land or the labour that we have available. If a business is hugely successful in a narrow area, maybe it doesn’t need to explore every commercial opportunity available to it. As a country, we do not have that luxury.
Also, specifically in Ricks case, there seems to be an inability to see that some people would rather live and work in the country.
This is fine until there is nothing to import and no farmers.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience0 -
Same argument over and over.
2 things.
1), make your farming competitive and productive. I've suggested things but they were, probably fairly, shot down.
2) nothing wrong with importing food unless you're intent on waging a big war when you can't rely on imports.
Food is traded in global markets all the time. Countries don't hold a bit back just in case - they buy it at the same prices we do. Clearly being closer to the production is an advantage as the cost of transport is lower, especially with fresh food, but still.
What do people think supermarket buyers are doing?0 -
My solution is simple. Eat only seasonal food. We have become conditioned to availability. I don't recall ever eating a salad during winter when I was young.surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenienceThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
Genuinely, if we go back to only eating seasonal local food, the UK will very quickly become very unattractive.pblakeney said:
My solution is simple. Eat only seasonal food. We have become conditioned to availability. I don't recall ever eating a salad during winter when I was young.surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience0 -
I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who's decider on immigration is eating a salad during winter.rick_chasey said:
Genuinely, if we go back to only eating seasonal local food, the UK will very quickly become very unattractive.pblakeney said:
My solution is simple. Eat only seasonal food. We have become conditioned to availability. I don't recall ever eating a salad during winter when I was young.surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenienceThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
F'ing progress.pblakeney said:
My solution is simple. Eat only seasonal food. We have become conditioned to availability. I don't recall ever eating a salad during winter when I was young.surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience0 -
as always there is a third way when we eat more seasonal food, if nothing else it tastes a lot betterrick_chasey said:
Genuinely, if we go back to only eating seasonal local food, the UK will very quickly become very unattractive.pblakeney said:
My solution is simple. Eat only seasonal food. We have become conditioned to availability. I don't recall ever eating a salad during winter when I was young.surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience0 -
Can you guys split off into a let's just eat turnips and other basic root veg thread.1
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Beat me to it. There's been some bad weather in tomato growing regions and there is a bit of a shortage. What's the bloody fuss about?surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No, but Rick would as he believes everybody should live and work in the city.kingstongraham said:
Is anyone stopping farmers doing farming?morstar said:It’s also inefficient to not use the land or the labour that we have available. If a business is hugely successful in a narrow area, maybe it doesn’t need to explore every commercial opportunity available to it. As a country, we do not have that luxury.
Also, specifically in Ricks case, there seems to be an inability to see that some people would rather live and work in the country.0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Beat me to it. There's been some bad weather in tomato growing regions and there is a bit of a shortage. What's the bloody fuss about?surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience
OK, so that canary looks a bit peaky, but let's carry on at the coalface, what's the fuss about?0 -
Surely the city dwelling farmers would get special day passes to go to the countryside on their ebikes in order to grow stuff?morstar said:
No, but Rick would as he believes everybody should live and work in the city.kingstongraham said:
Is anyone stopping farmers doing farming?morstar said:It’s also inefficient to not use the land or the labour that we have available. If a business is hugely successful in a narrow area, maybe it doesn’t need to explore every commercial opportunity available to it. As a country, we do not have that luxury.
Also, specifically in Ricks case, there seems to be an inability to see that some people would rather live and work in the country."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Been to a supermarket in the last few days? It's not a crisis, but it's not great.Stevo_666 said:
Beat me to it. There's been some bad weather in tomato growing regions and there is a bit of a shortage. What's the bloody fuss about?surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience
Also, the relevance to this thread is that the Moroccan (and Spanish) growers find it easier and more lucrative to sell into the EU, so when there is a shortage, that's what they'll do. There might be a similar problem later and to a lesser extent in the EU.0 -
Despite Brexit, the UK is no closer to Morocco. Broken promises etc.kingstongraham said:
Been to a supermarket in the last few days? It's not a crisis, but it's not great.Stevo_666 said:
Beat me to it. There's been some bad weather in tomato growing regions and there is a bit of a shortage. What's the bloody fuss about?surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience
Also, the relevance to this thread is that the Moroccan (and Spanish) growers find it easier and more lucrative to sell into the EU, so when there is a shortage, that's what they'll do. There might be a similar problem later and to a lesser extent in the EU.
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Surely having salad available all year is regression? Progress would be banning it altogther.kingstongraham said:
F'ing progress.pblakeney said:
My solution is simple. Eat only seasonal food. We have become conditioned to availability. I don't recall ever eating a salad during winter when I was young.surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience1 -
It's fine to rely on imports for a bit of variety. The key is whether we can reasonably feed the country without them if it became a necessity. Even when we did farm a lot more of our produce in WW2 we were reliant on imports getting through some incredibly dangerous sea routes alongside pretty strict rationing. I can't see a scenario where we are blockaded in the forseeable future but then I didn't foresee the impact of the pandemic in 2020 or a war in Europe in 2022. We've possibly become a bit too blase about ease of trading with other nations in the last 80 years.0
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Small point but tomatoes and peppers, of which there is a shortage, are not exclusively salad items. You all know they are foods that get cooked too, right?2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner1
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Still closer than much of Germany. But now in reality we chose to move further away.TheBigBean said:
Despite Brexit, the UK is no closer to Morocco. Broken promises etc.kingstongraham said:
Been to a supermarket in the last few days? It's not a crisis, but it's not great.Stevo_666 said:
Beat me to it. There's been some bad weather in tomato growing regions and there is a bit of a shortage. What's the bloody fuss about?surrey_commuter said:
I am not convinced that growing tomatoes in greenhouses in the middle of a UK winter is the best use of the world's resources.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Autarky is the route to ruin.morstar said:
I feel your pain. Every time I have mentioned having a broad, and to some degree, self supporting economy, I heard autarky.briantrumpet said:If I could be bothered, I'd search for dismissive replies to my suggestion that relying too heavily on imported food wasn't a great idea in an uncertain world.
Oh how quickly times change!
Better?
Whenever I have suggested UK farming needs to become much more productive I get told British soil can’t handle it for the most part.
It’s been net importuning food for over a century. We’re not at war, there’s no blockade. That’s clearly not the issue.
Neither of us is suggesting autarky is either desirable or possible, and though war isn't the issue for the fruit & veg in this instance, that's one of the variables that can upset global supplies (with Ukraine, it's grain and sunflower oil).
But I am suggesting it's not wise to offshore too much food production, when farmable land could all too easily permanently be lost because of temporary economic forces. That's a long way from advocating autarky.
What is wrong with people that a shortage of tomatoes becomes a crisis rather than a minor inconvenience
Also, the relevance to this thread is that the Moroccan (and Spanish) growers find it easier and more lucrative to sell into the EU, so when there is a shortage, that's what they'll do. There might be a similar problem later and to a lesser extent in the EU.0
