BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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I'll let Rick answer as the question was to him. Squadron of pigs on standby...ddraver said:
Tax details - boring storyStevo_666 said:
Explain the difference then.rick_chasey said:
I think you’ve misunderstood what qualifies as a good story and I stand by that tax competition is a net cost to the world.Stevo_666 said:
Seem to recall not that long ago you refusing to believe that tax could influence things like where people base themselves or their businesses. Have you changed your mind now?rick_chasey said:Fwiw Italy is handing out monster tax breaks for the first bunch of years when you move.
Heard a good story of guys who were about to sell business for billions (in London). It was in the pipeline for more than a year.
Anyway, they managed to all move to Italy and get residency there just before it closed, and to celebrate they had quite the ludicrous debauched party that befitted the island they did it on; Capri.
Also would this sort of thing not constitute tax avoidance of some sort in your mind? It was only the other day that Cake Stop was up in arms about a government minister allegedly using Gibraltar to reduce his tax bill
And yet this is a 'good story'....
Lying about them, while in government, while lecturing the public about how everyone will have to tighten their belts, while chancellor - Biiiig story, frothing journalists, bad interviews, resignations. The Works.
If every detail was identical save for the colour of Zahawi's rosette, I don't think we need to guess what side you'd be on..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
what on earth could have happened in 2016?
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Well, Jeremy Corbyn became Labour leader in 2015.
Obvious really.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.0 -
It never crossed my mind that they were deluded enough to believe that sh1t. I took it as a gven that they just said whatever it took to win the vote.rick_chasey said:
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.0 -
I suspect some did believe it.tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
It never crossed my mind that they were deluded enough to believe that censored . I took it as a gven that they just said whatever it took to win the vote.rick_chasey said:
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.0 -
UK car production collapses to lowest for 66 years https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64399748
Another Brexit bonus. Oh, wait…..0 -
The annoying thing is that none of this is people moaning in hindsight. It is all the stuff that was raised during the referendum and dismissed as project fear.0
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Indeed.morstar said:
I suspect some did believe it.tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
It never crossed my mind that they were deluded enough to believe that censored . I took it as a given that they just said whatever it took to win the vote.rick_chasey said:
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.
I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised at how the EU prioritised the political aspects of the EU over the economic aspects, but as I voted to remain, I don't need to justify having voted to leave for spurious reasons! I was also somewhat surprised at just how incompetent the "leave" supporting politicians were (and continue to be) on the practical aspects of leaving. (IIRC Davies proudly announced one day that the UK would be striking trade deals with individual EU countries, despite it being in the treaties for decades that trade deals are an EU/EEC etc. competency and can't be negotiated bilaterally.)0 -
wallace_and_gromit said:
Indeed.morstar said:
I suspect some did believe it.tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
It never crossed my mind that they were deluded enough to believe that censored . I took it as a given that they just said whatever it took to win the vote.rick_chasey said:
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.
I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised at how the EU prioritised the political aspects of the EU over the economic aspects, but as I voted to remain, I don't need to justify having voted to leave for spurious reasons! I was also somewhat surprised at just how incompetent the "leave" supporting politicians were (and continue to be) on the practical aspects of leaving. (IIRC Davies proudly announced one day that the UK would be striking trade deals with individual EU countries, despite it being in the treaties for decades that trade deals are an EU/EEC etc. competency and can't be negotiated bilaterally.)
I'm still not sure if the claims like that were just downright stupidity or downright lies.0 -
In a nutshell. Very frustrating. The tragedy is that those leave supporting heartlands in the Midlands and the North will be disproportionately affected by it.Pross said:The annoying thing is that none of this is people moaning in hindsight. It is all the stuff that was raised during the referendum and dismissed as project fear.
Goes to show that it was decades of UK government incompetence to blame for the decline in their communities and livelihoods, not the EU.0 -
FWIW, I think the public face of "leave" (Davies, Gove etc.) were either genuinely stupid (eg Davies) or too full of ideological zeal to make use of the intelligence they had (eg Gove). They were fed bullsh*t by the "brains behind the operation" who never showed their faces in public and knew perfectly well that they were spouting tosh.briantrumpet said:wallace_and_gromit said:
Indeed.morstar said:
I suspect some did believe it.tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
It never crossed my mind that they were deluded enough to believe that censored . I took it as a given that they just said whatever it took to win the vote.rick_chasey said:
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.
I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised at how the EU prioritised the political aspects of the EU over the economic aspects, but as I voted to remain, I don't need to justify having voted to leave for spurious reasons! I was also somewhat surprised at just how incompetent the "leave" supporting politicians were (and continue to be) on the practical aspects of leaving. (IIRC Davies proudly announced one day that the UK would be striking trade deals with individual EU countries, despite it being in the treaties for decades that trade deals are an EU/EEC etc. competency and can't be negotiated bilaterally.)
I'm still not sure if the claims like that were just downright stupidity or downright lies.0 -
Or Johnson who used it purely as a vehicle for his own desperate need for power and attention.wallace_and_gromit said:
FWIW, I think the public face of "leave" (Davies, Gove etc.) were either genuinely stupid (eg Davies) or too full of ideological zeal to make use of the intelligence they had (eg Gove). They were fed bullsh*t by the "brains behind the operation" who never showed their faces in public and knew perfectly well that they were spouting tosh.briantrumpet said:wallace_and_gromit said:
Indeed.morstar said:
I suspect some did believe it.tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
It never crossed my mind that they were deluded enough to believe that censored . I took it as a given that they just said whatever it took to win the vote.rick_chasey said:
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.
I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised at how the EU prioritised the political aspects of the EU over the economic aspects, but as I voted to remain, I don't need to justify having voted to leave for spurious reasons! I was also somewhat surprised at just how incompetent the "leave" supporting politicians were (and continue to be) on the practical aspects of leaving. (IIRC Davies proudly announced one day that the UK would be striking trade deals with individual EU countries, despite it being in the treaties for decades that trade deals are an EU/EEC etc. competency and can't be negotiated bilaterally.)
I'm still not sure if the claims like that were just downright stupidity or downright lies.
The word ‘traitor’ was thrown around a lot by one side. That and ‘you hate this country’.
I know who I think the real patriots are and who genuinely wanted the best for this country.
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Blue passports and....
Eh, that's it.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The irony of course being that we could have had blue passports whilst in the EU as the evil purple was an informal agreement amongst EU members with further irony that they aren't blue anyway.pblakeney said:Blue passports and....
Eh, that's it.1 -
Gove has always been blinded by ideological zeal in everything he does. See his reign as Education minister.
So it was no surprise to witness a total lack of critical thought in his support for Brexit.
I can remember a time when I felt Gove was the most dangerous Tory out there.
Oh how wrong that proved to be!0 -
You may see this as callous but I see that as far from a tragedy and think it only fair that they should bear the brunt. If I was in charge I would target Brexit pain at those demographics most likely to vote for it. I will clarify that Brexit pain was inevitable.skyblueamateur said:
In a nutshell. Very frustrating. The tragedy is that those leave supporting heartlands in the Midlands and the North will be disproportionately affected by it.Pross said:The annoying thing is that none of this is people moaning in hindsight. It is all the stuff that was raised during the referendum and dismissed as project fear.
Goes to show that it was decades of UK government incompetence to blame for the decline in their communities and livelihoods, not the EU.
Just explain that Brexit has punched a £40bn a year hole in Govt finances so as a consequence the triple lock has to go and future increases will be the same as the increase in Govt revenue or zero, whichever is the highest.
Farming and fishing subsidies - FRO
Transfers of wealth to regions that voted Leave - FRO
It may seem harsh but people need to learn that their actions have consequences. There seems to be a strong correlation between dependency on the state and voting Leave.2 -
I am surprised that you are surprised at the stupidity of Leave supportig politicians but then I firmly believe that outside of a few thousand people you would have to be a moron to think it was a good idea.wallace_and_gromit said:
Indeed.morstar said:
I suspect some did believe it.tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
It never crossed my mind that they were deluded enough to believe that censored . I took it as a given that they just said whatever it took to win the vote.rick_chasey said:
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.
I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised at how the EU prioritised the political aspects of the EU over the economic aspects, but as I voted to remain, I don't need to justify having voted to leave for spurious reasons! I was also somewhat surprised at just how incompetent the "leave" supporting politicians were (and continue to be) on the practical aspects of leaving. (IIRC Davies proudly announced one day that the UK would be striking trade deals with individual EU countries, despite it being in the treaties for decades that trade deals are an EU/EEC etc. competency and can't be negotiated bilaterally.)0 -
Could someone do a pretty graph which compares car production in other countries? It has fallen everywhere.
Also, even the Guardian has managed to find a Brexit positive.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/26/new-farm-subsidies-regime-could-be-great-for-nature-properly-funded0 -
well if car production has halved and is close to a death spiral in every country then Ricktopia can not be too far off.TheBigBean said:Could someone do a pretty graph which compares car production in other countries? It has fallen everywhere.
Also, even the Guardian has managed to find a Brexit positive.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/26/new-farm-subsidies-regime-could-be-great-for-nature-properly-funded
That article has no numbers in it but on the assumption that subsidies will remain in the billions and that people will do crazy things to maximise their share I do not see it as a benefit0 -
Just proves that you're never too old to learn. In my case, just how stupid people can be. I'd always assumed that politicians tended to be bright with dubious morals. I now know that only the latter is true.surrey_commuter said:
I am surprised that you are surprised at the stupidity of Leave supportig politicians but then I firmly believe that outside of a few thousand people you would have to be a moron to think it was a good idea.wallace_and_gromit said:
Indeed.morstar said:
I suspect some did believe it.tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
It never crossed my mind that they were deluded enough to believe that censored . I took it as a given that they just said whatever it took to win the vote.rick_chasey said:
LOL. Rather than the German car companies coming in to rescue Britain, they've in fact been a beneficiary of Britian's self inflicted f*ck up.surrey_commuter said:what on earth could have happened in 2016?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-former-german-ambassador-thomas-matussek-brexit-only-headache-number-25-35560/Former Brexit secretary David Davis all but used his first tour of Europe following the referendum result to mock local politicians about their lack of influence once the likes of BMW and Volkswagen started making their demands.
I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised at how the EU prioritised the political aspects of the EU over the economic aspects, but as I voted to remain, I don't need to justify having voted to leave for spurious reasons! I was also somewhat surprised at just how incompetent the "leave" supporting politicians were (and continue to be) on the practical aspects of leaving. (IIRC Davies proudly announced one day that the UK would be striking trade deals with individual EU countries, despite it being in the treaties for decades that trade deals are an EU/EEC etc. competency and can't be negotiated bilaterally.)
My excuse is that from leaving school until the mid-2010s, I have mainly associated with extremely bright people (typically 2i or higher in terms of degree in STEM subject, with legal, accounting or actuarial qualifications on top in terms of colleagues, with a bit more diversity amongst friends, including Doctors etc.) and my baseline for "average intelligence" had been skewed somewhat by 30 years of intellectual jousting with such types. What I thought was average intelligence was realistically top quartile or higher across the whole population.
Another contributory factor is that I hadn't found Twitter at that time. Ten minutes there quickly resets your baseline re average intelligence!
Ironically, since the Brexit vote, I have become heavily involved in the competitive swimming world (through the kids' involvement) and I have discovered quite frightening levels of stupidity amongst those who make a living via sports admin and entry-level coaching. (The competitors, being the offspring of highly strung middle class types, tend to be high achievers academically.)0 -
https://ft.com/content/a422455a-8f7b-417f-a540-5fdedee2a2efskyblueamateur said:UK car production collapses to lowest for 66 years https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64399748
Another Brexit bonus. Oh, wait….."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Looks like chip shortages are having a major impact on car production:skyblueamateur said:UK car production collapses to lowest for 66 years https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64399748
Another Brexit bonus. Oh, wait…..
https://ft.com/content/a422455a-8f7b-417f-a540-5fdedee2a2ef"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I don’t think you can necessarily blame people for that correlation.surrey_commuter said:
You may see this as callous but I see that as far from a tragedy and think it only fair that they should bear the brunt. If I was in charge I would target Brexit pain at those demographics most likely to vote for it. I will clarify that Brexit pain was inevitable.skyblueamateur said:
In a nutshell. Very frustrating. The tragedy is that those leave supporting heartlands in the Midlands and the North will be disproportionately affected by it.Pross said:The annoying thing is that none of this is people moaning in hindsight. It is all the stuff that was raised during the referendum and dismissed as project fear.
Goes to show that it was decades of UK government incompetence to blame for the decline in their communities and livelihoods, not the EU.
Just explain that Brexit has punched a £40bn a year hole in Govt finances so as a consequence the triple lock has to go and future increases will be the same as the increase in Govt revenue or zero, whichever is the highest.
Farming and fishing subsidies - FRO
Transfers of wealth to regions that voted Leave - FRO
It may seem harsh but people need to learn that their actions have consequences. There seems to be a strong correlation between dependency on the state and voting Leave.
People dependent on the state because the economy doesn’t work for them were persuaded the reason it doesn’t work for them was down to external factors (eu).
Clearly this was stupid but equally it is stupid to run a rich economy and allow growth of wealth disparity to continue unhindered.
I agree handouts aren’t the solution but until you address a low wage economy, people will be persuaded to latch onto bad ideas as the status quo isn’t working for them.1 -
FWIW I was chatting to a Greek about how well the Greek economy is doing, and he basically said that post Sovereign Debt Crisis Greek gave up on vast swathes of social security, and he basically said "if you want anything in Greece you're gonna have to go out and earn it. Want a pension? Go work. Want to see a doctor? Have the money to pay to see them" etc.
I think we can see what side of the political spectrum he comes from but I do think sometimes in the mainstream conversation on the UK the incentives for social security are too overlooked.
Presumably as the UK just has too many really poor people and without the security they are genuinely f*cked.0 -
Correct, as pointed out in the original article I posted.Stevo_666 said:
Looks like chip shortages are having a major impact on car production:skyblueamateur said:UK car production collapses to lowest for 66 years https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64399748
Another Brexit bonus. Oh, wait…..
https://ft.com/content/a422455a-8f7b-417f-a540-5fdedee2a2ef
It also acknowledges the huge impact Brexit has had and how unless there is state intervention that the car industry in this country is in huge trouble.
Know loads of lads that work at JLR, you can’t not living round here, and they spell out the difficulties they are having with export.0 -
Bloody, woke/loonie left/remoaners/traitors at the Express
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1723478/brexit-britishvolt-uk-ev-william-hague-blyth0
