BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.0 -
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Haha yeah I saw that. It's such a brilliant upside that it's surprising the Leave campaign kept quiet about it. Imagine how big the margin of victory would have been then!- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.0 -
my street was built in the 1930s and there is an old man who moved in 1967 when there were people who bought from new, one of whom told him outside the local shop that she used to buy her milk from the farm opposite. That farm is now a residential area, I wonder how much it would cost to buy the houses, demolish them and clean up the land so they can lease it to a dairy farmer so that I can pop round and buy milk from the farm gate.TheBigBean said:
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.0 -
I'm not sure the solution to food miles is lots of smaller journeys from individual farmers replacing tanker journeys from big dairies.
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a) There is nothing stopping people from buying locally other than it being less convenient and more costly for them.TheBigBean said:
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.
b) Most people don't live in villages with a local dairy farm.0 -
TheBigBean said:
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.
The idea of reducing food miles and buying local food in season is not silly in itself, but suggesting that the way to achieve it is by crashing a system that has evolved over decades is a bit like suggesting to your neighbours that setting fire to their house would be a good way to get their rather dated décor replaced. It does bolster the perception that current Tories are now wreckers at heart... hardly what the name of the party suggests.0 -
Yes, so the cost differential for (a) may reduce with the increased cost of transport. (b) won't change although presumably the aspiration is for it to apply to all produce and even us city folk are supposed to be getting our food from vertical farms*.kingstongraham said:
a) There is nothing stopping people from buying locally other than it being less convenient and more costly for them.TheBigBean said:
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.
b) Most people don't live in villages with a local dairy farm.
*not sold on this yet.0 -
As long as all that those people who live near dairy farms want is milk, sure. I'm not convinced on that bit, to be honest.TheBigBean said:
Yes, so the cost differential for (a) may reduce with the increased cost of transport. (b) won't change although presumably the aspiration is for it to apply to all produce and even us city folk are supposed to be getting our food from vertical farms*.kingstongraham said:
a) There is nothing stopping people from buying locally other than it being less convenient and more costly for them.TheBigBean said:
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.
b) Most people don't live in villages with a local dairy farm.
*not sold on this yet.0 -
If I drive 10 miles to the farm to get my milk, maybe that's a food miles saving of 90 miles over buying some after walking to a supermarket.
But if 15 people all stop walking to the supermarket and drive individually to the farm?
If I'm worried about the greenhouse gas emissions of milk, I'm likely not drinking cows milk anyway.
Modern farming and food distribution is quite a marvel, yes supermarkets have got very rich and probably have too much influence over the market. It doesn't seem that clear to me what the vision is for the replacement of the current logistics chain is, unless the plan is we all live in villages.0 -
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
This speaks to the wider point, that we're much more reliant on a smaller number of larger herd dairy farmers rather than lots of small herds across the whole country.surrey_commuter said:
my street was built in the 1930s and there is an old man who moved in 1967 when there were people who bought from new, one of whom told him outside the local shop that she used to buy her milk from the farm opposite. That farm is now a residential area, I wonder how much it would cost to buy the houses, demolish them and clean up the land so they can lease it to a dairy farmer so that I can pop round and buy milk from the farm gate.TheBigBean said:
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.
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Why doesn't a milk tanker pick up the milk from the farm and then drive 50 miles filling up 10 village milk vending machines along the way? You walk to the vending machine.Jezyboy said:If I drive 10 miles to the farm to get my milk, maybe that's a food miles saving of 90 miles over buying some after walking to a supermarket.
But if 15 people all stop walking to the supermarket and drive individually to the farm?
If I'm worried about the greenhouse gas emissions of milk, I'm likely not drinking cows milk anyway.
Modern farming and food distribution is quite a marvel, yes supermarkets have got very rich and probably have too much influence over the market. It doesn't seem that clear to me what the vision is for the replacement of the current logistics chain is, unless the plan is we all live in villages.
In contrast, the same milk tanker could drive 200 miles to the milk processing centre where the milk would be processed. Then another truck could drive the bottled milk another 200 miles to the supermarket distribution centre. Then, it can be moved onto another truck and driven 200 miles to your nearest supermarket. You can then drive to the supermarket.
Distances obviously made up.
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Finally managed to get some petrol this morning.
First two petrol stations (BP and Shell*) were still both out of fuel. Managed to get in a queue at Asda. Was about 12-15 cars ahead of me when i got there. Took about 20 mins to get to the pump. When i left the queue was much longer, snaking round the supermarket car park. I think i was lucky with the timing.
There was no limit on how much you get buy.
My "low fuel" message popped on the screen as i rolled up to the pump!
*M&S and Waitrose mini shops also, i wonder to what extent this is killing their grocery sales?
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Food miles are a problem.rick_chasey said:Is this a solution looking for a problem? I
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For milk?!TheBigBean said:
Food miles are a problem.rick_chasey said:Is this a solution looking for a problem? I
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Given large parts of the country are not suitable for dairy farming, that's not surprising.elbowloh said:
This speaks to the wider point, that we're much more reliant on a smaller number of larger herd dairy farmers rather than lots of small herds across the whole country.surrey_commuter said:
my street was built in the 1930s and there is an old man who moved in 1967 when there were people who bought from new, one of whom told him outside the local shop that she used to buy her milk from the farm opposite. That farm is now a residential area, I wonder how much it would cost to buy the houses, demolish them and clean up the land so they can lease it to a dairy farmer so that I can pop round and buy milk from the farm gate.TheBigBean said:
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I honestly don't think the solution to food miles is creating supply chain shortages through restricted labour pools.
That is nuts, and presumably not what you are suggesting.0 -
This happens already. My local coffee shop has a milk vending machine we use. It's very convenient as, unlike with a milkman, you can just get more whenever you need it (except the odd occasion it's run out, but that is quite rare).TheBigBean said:
Why doesn't a milk tanker pick up the milk from the farm and then drive 50 miles filling up 10 village milk vending machines along the way? You walk to the vending machine.Jezyboy said:If I drive 10 miles to the farm to get my milk, maybe that's a food miles saving of 90 miles over buying some after walking to a supermarket.
But if 15 people all stop walking to the supermarket and drive individually to the farm?
If I'm worried about the greenhouse gas emissions of milk, I'm likely not drinking cows milk anyway.
Modern farming and food distribution is quite a marvel, yes supermarkets have got very rich and probably have too much influence over the market. It doesn't seem that clear to me what the vision is for the replacement of the current logistics chain is, unless the plan is we all live in villages.
In contrast, the same milk tanker could drive 200 miles to the milk processing centre where the milk would be processed. Then another truck could drive the bottled milk another 200 miles to the supermarket distribution centre. Then, it can be moved onto another truck and driven 200 miles to your nearest supermarket. You can then drive to the supermarket.
Distances obviously made up.
Is the argument that we should be making the cheap end of the market intentionally worse to force people to use more environmentally friendly options? Because that is a reasonable argument but it's not one the public knew they were having.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
We should be making the environmentally friendly end of the market more attractive, not the other way around.
e.g.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I meant in terms of compared to other points in time/history, rather than compared to other countries. The industry has been consolidated.rjsterry said:
Given large parts of the country are not suitable for dairy farming, that's not surprising.elbowloh said:
This speaks to the wider point, that we're much more reliant on a smaller number of larger herd dairy farmers rather than lots of small herds across the whole country.surrey_commuter said:
my street was built in the 1930s and there is an old man who moved in 1967 when there were people who bought from new, one of whom told him outside the local shop that she used to buy her milk from the farm opposite. That farm is now a residential area, I wonder how much it would cost to buy the houses, demolish them and clean up the land so they can lease it to a dairy farmer so that I can pop round and buy milk from the farm gate.TheBigBean said:
Aside from the fact that milk is already sold by self service vending machines in villages, what is so comically bad about this? The amount of miles each item of food does isn't currently great for the environment.kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.
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Jezyboy said:
If I drive 10 miles to the farm to get my milk, maybe that's a food miles saving of 90 miles over buying some after walking to a supermarket.
But if 15 people all stop walking to the supermarket and drive individually to the farm?
If I'm worried about the greenhouse gas emissions of milk, I'm likely not drinking cows milk anyway.
Modern farming and food distribution is quite a marvel, yes supermarkets have got very rich and probably have too much influence over the market. It doesn't seem that clear to me what the vision is for the replacement of the current logistics chain is, unless the plan is we all live in villages.
The self-service dispensers I know of are on dairy farms right next to commuter routes into Exeter, so mostly (I guess) don't involve extra miles from either the farmer or the consumers. I realise Exeter isn't quite like London though... I suspect there aren't that many dairy farms within four miles of the centre of London...0 -
Because it would be a matter of time before there'd be a major Campylobacter poisoning incident.TheBigBean said:
Why doesn't a milk tanker pick up the milk from the farm and then drive 50 miles filling up 10 village milk vending machines along the way? You walk to the vending machine.Jezyboy said:If I drive 10 miles to the farm to get my milk, maybe that's a food miles saving of 90 miles over buying some after walking to a supermarket.
But if 15 people all stop walking to the supermarket and drive individually to the farm?
If I'm worried about the greenhouse gas emissions of milk, I'm likely not drinking cows milk anyway.
Modern farming and food distribution is quite a marvel, yes supermarkets have got very rich and probably have too much influence over the market. It doesn't seem that clear to me what the vision is for the replacement of the current logistics chain is, unless the plan is we all live in villages.
In contrast, the same milk tanker could drive 200 miles to the milk processing centre where the milk would be processed. Then another truck could drive the bottled milk another 200 miles to the supermarket distribution centre. Then, it can be moved onto another truck and driven 200 miles to your nearest supermarket. You can then drive to the supermarket.
Distances obviously made up.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
Because it would be a matter of time before there'd be a major Campylobacter poisoning incident.TheBigBean said:
Why doesn't a milk tanker pick up the milk from the farm and then drive 50 miles filling up 10 village milk vending machines along the way? You walk to the vending machine.Jezyboy said:If I drive 10 miles to the farm to get my milk, maybe that's a food miles saving of 90 miles over buying some after walking to a supermarket.
But if 15 people all stop walking to the supermarket and drive individually to the farm?
If I'm worried about the greenhouse gas emissions of milk, I'm likely not drinking cows milk anyway.
Modern farming and food distribution is quite a marvel, yes supermarkets have got very rich and probably have too much influence over the market. It doesn't seem that clear to me what the vision is for the replacement of the current logistics chain is, unless the plan is we all live in villages.
In contrast, the same milk tanker could drive 200 miles to the milk processing centre where the milk would be processed. Then another truck could drive the bottled milk another 200 miles to the supermarket distribution centre. Then, it can be moved onto another truck and driven 200 miles to your nearest supermarket. You can then drive to the supermarket.
Distances obviously made up.
I'm not sure exactly how vending machines are currently filled, but I am sure that it involves stringent protocols to avoid any contamination. I can't see any reason (at least, in theory) why those protocols couldn't be extended to filling multiple vending machines.0 -
Chris Loder MP - "He grew up near Folke in Dorset on his parents' family farm, ..."kingstongraham said:
Chris Loder MP yesterday:pangolin said:
It's the latest in a long line of "this is what you were really voting for when you voted to leave the EU"rjsterry said:
I'm not sure they do want to. They've just managed to kid a lot of people that their prospects haven't looked up for the last 10 years solely because of cheap foreign labour. It's now apparent how much the country relied on that labour (which really wasn't that cheap for the most part) and the only way they can polish this particular censored is to pretend it'll all magically come right in the new year.rick_chasey said:I just don't understand why you want to solve pay and conditions problems without just legislating for pay and conditions, and instead making legislation about foreigners.
Joining such hits as:
Seasonal fruit and veg is better for us anyway
and
We don't want to be in the single market reallyI know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.
It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.
Easy to see his thinking.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I use a milkman with an electric milkfloat.
I'm not sure how I stack up in this but love that I go down in the morning and there's milk on my doorstep, and sometimes yoghurts, eggs and butter.0 -
apologies if my memory is wrong about your whereabouts but is that the ASDA at Burgh Heath, and if so whattime did you go?elbowloh said:Finally managed to get some petrol this morning.
First two petrol stations (BP and Shell*) were still both out of fuel. Managed to get in a queue at Asda. Was about 12-15 cars ahead of me when i got there. Took about 20 mins to get to the pump. When i left the queue was much longer, snaking round the supermarket car park. I think i was lucky with the timing.
There was no limit on how much you get buy.
My "low fuel" message popped on the screen as i rolled up to the pump!
*M&S and Waitrose mini shops also, i wonder to what extent this is killing their grocery sales?0
