BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

john80

david37 said:

someone needs to start a bike radar tally sheet, wins against losses.

obviously real measurable ones not hypothetical emotional possible ones.



even though that puts the remainers at a serious disadvantage.

It won't work as one thing positive or negative will be really important to each person with mainly self interest driving what it is. The rest to them is someone else's problem.

TheBigBean

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

surrey_commuter

john80 said:

david37 said:

someone needs to start a bike radar tally sheet, wins against losses.

obviously real measurable ones not hypothetical emotional possible ones.



even though that puts the remainers at a serious disadvantage.

It won't work as one thing positive or negative will be really important to each person with mainly self interest driving what it is. The rest to them is someone else's problem.

Good point but if you looked at customs agents then the 50,000 of them and their dependents are better off but the rest of us are worse off. Surely overall that must go down as a loss for the UK?

Stevo_666

david37 said:

someone needs to start a bike radar tally sheet, wins against losses.

obviously real measurable ones not hypothetical emotional possible ones.



even though that puts the remainers at a serious disadvantage.

I think there will be a lot of small or medium sized wins such as this. EU regs often came in dribs and drabs, so it was hard to point to individual bits of red tape that made a massive difference when introduced: it will be the same in reverse.

It was a favourite line of argument of many on here to say 'point to the bits that made it difficult', when in reality the answer was the sheer weight of all of it. So sensible reductions of that burden are welcome.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

david37 said:

someone needs to start a bike radar tally sheet, wins against losses.

obviously real measurable ones not hypothetical emotional possible ones.



even though that puts the remainers at a serious disadvantage.

I think there will be a lot of small or medium sized wins such as this. EU regs often came in dribs and drabs, so it was hard to point to individual bits of red tape that made a massive difference when introduced: it will be the same in reverse.

It was a favourite line of argument of many on here to say 'point to the bits that made it difficult', when in reality the answer was the sheer weight of all of it. So sensible reductions of that burden are welcome.

It isn't about the size of your business.

It is about what your margins are and what impact the new trading environment has on them.

Arguably there is an element of economies of scale re the paperwork etc, but that's it.

That eel producer, for example, his margins were small and he was only marginally cheaper than his continental rivals, so it is more convenient for his customers to go to his rivals than deal with the paperwork hassle by sticking with him.

john80

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

kingstongraham

I'd be interested to know how it came to be, if it was so onerous and not of any value? Was it introduced after the UK left and did we not have the ability to veto it?

Would there be someone in the EU who is in favour of all of it?

rick_chasey

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

Do you know what an illustrative example is?

kingstongraham

They will have to get used to it, as it's coming for intra-EU sales in July. The difference is that there'll be only one portal for the whole of the EU, and a different one for the UK.

ddraver

Does someone have an early learning guide to all that VAT stuff?

My knowledge of it is already a little poor...

surrey_commuter

ddraver said:

Does someone have an early learning guide to all that VAT stuff?

My knowledge of it is already a little poor...

If 99 out of a hundred people don’t understand compound growth then a good deal less understand VAT

ddraver

True but I feel like I should know in this job...

I cant actually answer this question to myself - If I ordered a rear Derailleur from wiggle, whilst I look bed in NL, did wiggle pay the VAT in the UK, or did they pay BTV in NL..?

john80

surrey_commuter said:

ddraver said:

Does someone have an early learning guide to all that VAT stuff?

My knowledge of it is already a little poor...

If 99 out of a hundred people don’t understand compound growth then a good deal less understand VAT

Are you sure you are not one of the 99. Running my own limited company VAT is possible the simplest part of administering the business even though it gets done quarterly.

kingstongraham

ddraver said:

True but I feel like I should know in this job...

I cant actually answer this question to myself - If I ordered a rear Derailleur from wiggle, whilst I look bed in NL, did wiggle pay the VAT in the UK, or did they pay TVA in NL..?

Wiggle would be large enough that it would be registered in NL, and would pay TVA. You would be charged the 21% rather than the UK 20%.

john80

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

Do you know what an illustrative example is?

Businesses with no physical presence in UK will do less business in the UK. An entirely predictable result of Brexit and one that may benefit the UK taxpayer. Did any of the examples in the article lead you to think the UK was going to have a problem? Or are you still pissed that Brooks saddles entire inventory is in Italy.

ddraver

kingstongraham said:

Stuff I didn't know

Hmmm, never knew that.

I've found a nice Dutch guy on YouTube who is explaining it to me...

Stevo_666

ddraver said:

True but I feel like I should know in this job...

I cant actually answer this question to myself - If I ordered a rear Derailleur from wiggle, whilst I look bed in NL, did wiggle pay the VAT in the UK, or did they pay BTV in NL..?

Think your spelling auto correct did something there - 'look bed'? I'll have a go if you can clarify the question.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

david37 said:

someone needs to start a bike radar tally sheet, wins against losses.

obviously real measurable ones not hypothetical emotional possible ones.



even though that puts the remainers at a serious disadvantage.

I think there will be a lot of small or medium sized wins such as this. EU regs often came in dribs and drabs, so it was hard to point to individual bits of red tape that made a massive difference when introduced: it will be the same in reverse.

It was a favourite line of argument of many on here to say 'point to the bits that made it difficult', when in reality the answer was the sheer weight of all of it. So sensible reductions of that burden are welcome.

It isn't about the size of your business.

It is about what your margins are and what impact the new trading environment has on them.

Arguably there is an element of economies of scale re the paperwork etc, but that's it.

That eel producer, for example, his margins were small and he was only marginally cheaper than his continental rivals, so it is more convenient for his customers to go to his rivals than deal with the paperwork hassle by sticking with him.

I didn't say it was. The size reference was to the size of the bits of red tape.

rick_chasey

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

Do you know what an illustrative example is?

Businesses with no physical presence in UK will do less business in the UK. An entirely predictable result of Brexit and one that may benefit the UK taxpayer. Did any of the examples in the article lead you to think the UK was going to have a problem? Or are you still pissed that Brooks saddles entire inventory is in Italy.

Benefit to the UK taxpayer bahaha.

You are priceless.

Shall I get my little illustrative charts out to show you, again?

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

david37 said:

someone needs to start a bike radar tally sheet, wins against losses.

obviously real measurable ones not hypothetical emotional possible ones.



even though that puts the remainers at a serious disadvantage.

I think there will be a lot of small or medium sized wins such as this. EU regs often came in dribs and drabs, so it was hard to point to individual bits of red tape that made a massive difference when introduced: it will be the same in reverse.

It was a favourite line of argument of many on here to say 'point to the bits that made it difficult', when in reality the answer was the sheer weight of all of it. So sensible reductions of that burden are welcome.

It isn't about the size of your business.

It is about what your margins are and what impact the new trading environment has on them.

Arguably there is an element of economies of scale re the paperwork etc, but that's it.

That eel producer, for example, his margins were small and he was only marginally cheaper than his continental rivals, so it is more convenient for his customers to go to his rivals than deal with the paperwork hassle by sticking with him.

I didn't say it was. The size reference was to the size of the bits of red tape.

Ah sorry I read it as SMEs.

Think it's *bold* to suggest the bonfire of regs is a benefit in this. HMRC boss said the *extra* paperwork for customs declarations alone will cost them £7.5bn.

surrey_commuter

john80 said:

surrey_commuter said:

ddraver said:

Does someone have an early learning guide to all that VAT stuff?

My knowledge of it is already a little poor...

If 99 out of a hundred people don’t understand compound growth then a good deal less understand VAT

Are you sure you are not one of the 99. Running my own limited company VAT is possible the simplest part of administering the business even though it gets done quarterly.

How much is with Switzerland as the seem to swap the rules backwards and forwards every couple of years?

ddraver

Stevo_666 said:

ddraver said:

True but I feel like I should know in this job...

I cant actually answer this question to myself - If I ordered a rear Derailleur from wiggle, whilst I look bed in NL, did wiggle pay the VAT in the UK, or did they pay BTV in NL..?

Think your spelling auto correct did something there - 'look bed'? I'll have a go if you can clarify the question.

*Lived

Alternatively the question would be, Where is VAT paid on an order from bike-discount.de, shipped to one of us in the UK..?

(Also - what is "drop shipping"? This is a bad YouTube hole...)

david37

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

it wasnt even cash they were asked for,merely that they paid as much tax as the UK companies they were competing with. not 20%less

as an avid internet bike bits bargain hunter i hadnt even heard of these people.

david37

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

Do you know what an illustrative example is?

Businesses with no physical presence in UK will do less business in the UK. An entirely predictable result of Brexit and one that may benefit the UK taxpayer. Did any of the examples in the article lead you to think the UK was going to have a problem? Or are you still pissed that Brooks saddles entire inventory is in Italy.

Benefit to the UK taxpayer bahaha.

You are priceless.

Shall I get my little illustrative charts out to show you, again?

i have to tell you Rick that in the real world things dont work like in personnel at a bank.

kingstongraham

ddraver said:

Stevo_666 said:

ddraver said:

True but I feel like I should know in this job...

I cant actually answer this question to myself - If I ordered a rear Derailleur from wiggle, whilst I look bed in NL, did wiggle pay the VAT in the UK, or did they pay BTV in NL..?

Think your spelling auto correct did something there - 'look bed'? I'll have a go if you can clarify the question.

*Lived

Alternatively the question would be, Where is VAT paid on an order from bike-discount.de, shipped to one of us in the UK..?

(Also - what is "drop shipping"? This is a bad YouTube hole...)

Drop shipping is where company A sells you a product (through its website), you pay company A, but the product is stocked by company B and delivered to you direct from company B. Company A pays company B.

rick_chasey

david37 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

Do you know what an illustrative example is?

Businesses with no physical presence in UK will do less business in the UK. An entirely predictable result of Brexit and one that may benefit the UK taxpayer. Did any of the examples in the article lead you to think the UK was going to have a problem? Or are you still pissed that Brooks saddles entire inventory is in Italy.

Benefit to the UK taxpayer bahaha.

You are priceless.

Shall I get my little illustrative charts out to show you, again?

i have to tell you Rick that in the real world things dont work like in personnel at a bank.

You're right I don't live in a world that is real, nor do I know anyone who does.

pangolin

david37 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

Do you know what an illustrative example is?

Businesses with no physical presence in UK will do less business in the UK. An entirely predictable result of Brexit and one that may benefit the UK taxpayer. Did any of the examples in the article lead you to think the UK was going to have a problem? Or are you still pissed that Brooks saddles entire inventory is in Italy.

Benefit to the UK taxpayer bahaha.

You are priceless.

Shall I get my little illustrative charts out to show you, again?

i have to tell you Rick that in the real world things dont work like in personnel at a bank.

As a UK taxpayer I am loving this benefit of having fewer companies I can buy from. Too much choice was confusing. Put this one squarely in the pros column.

skyblueamateur

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

Do you know what an illustrative example is?

Businesses with no physical presence in UK will do less business in the UK. An entirely predictable result of Brexit and one that may benefit the UK taxpayer. Did any of the examples in the article lead you to think the UK was going to have a problem? Or are you still pissed that Brooks saddles entire inventory is in Italy.

Also limits the ability of British companies with no physical presence in Europe to do business in Europe then?

Jezyboy

skyblueamateur said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

EU firms not taking orders for delivery to the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I read this and laughed. A company with no links to the UK and no physical presence getting all upset when the UK asks them for some cash to access the market. I wonder how many letters from those unable to buy Dutch bike bits will be coming across MPs desks. I imagine people have got bigger issues to be writing to them about.

Do you know what an illustrative example is?

Businesses with no physical presence in UK will do less business in the UK. An entirely predictable result of Brexit and one that may benefit the UK taxpayer. Did any of the examples in the article lead you to think the UK was going to have a problem? Or are you still pissed that Brooks saddles entire inventory is in Italy.

Also limits the ability of British companies with no physical presence in Europe to do business in Europe then?

Meaning the re double their focus on pleasing the British consumer. Another tick in the pro column.

Stevo_666

ddraver said:

Stevo_666 said:

ddraver said:

True but I feel like I should know in this job...

I cant actually answer this question to myself - If I ordered a rear Derailleur from wiggle, whilst I look bed in NL, did wiggle pay the VAT in the UK, or did they pay BTV in NL..?

Think your spelling auto correct did something there - 'look bed'? I'll have a go if you can clarify the question.

*Lived

Alternatively the question would be, Where is VAT paid on an order from bike-discount.de, shipped to one of us in the UK..?

(Also - what is "drop shipping"? This is a bad YouTube hole...)

Ah, OK.

Here's a couple of references for reading in your leisure time:
https://icaew.com/brexit/uk-vat-after-the-transition-period
https://gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021
Although not sure if I could point you to a general VAT overview that is any better than what you can find on the net.

As a non VAT registered individual under the new rules, depends on whether what you buy is below or above the £135 threshold. Above that and you pay import VAT (usually via FedEx or whoever calling you when the goods land here and asking for payment before they ship to you). Below that and the supplier or online platform has to charge UK VAT which will be included in the overall price.

I think they are trying to shift the burden of the VAT onto the relevant suppliers rather then the individual buyer, but I can see the drawbacks for small direct sellers.

Drop shipment in my world is where the goods are delivered direct from say manufacturer in country A to end customer in country B, but there is a third party such as a retailer or dealer in either country B or country C that takes title to the goods and is in the invoicing chain. It's a complex area with lots of permutations but quite often there is an obligation to register for VAT in the end customer country if the third party is in country C. And often the issue with end customer seeing the manufacturer charges if nobody swaps the manucactueprer paperwork out for the third party paperwork before delivery.

HTH.