BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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Comments

  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    morstar said:

    Arlenes wording was along the lines of ‘benefit from the advantages of Brexit’.

    I guess 4 years grants NI the best of both worlds in the immediate term at relatively low impact and a try before you buy on full Brexit. They can make an informed decision in 4 years time on how wonderful or censored Brexit actually is.

    they could make an informed decision.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,562
    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    BJ had to lie about all the benefits (apart from the racism one) this morning - you'd have thought he'd have just chosen truthful ones seeing as there are so many right...?

    Right..?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55522329

    Which bits were lies? I have read the article. I'll give you that already making cash savings is a bit much only a couple of days into January, but the rest seems to check out.
    Pulse fishing ban and freeports were already possible as a MS, so not benefits. The 'hoover trawlers' point, while possible, seems to be something he just made up on the spot. So that leaves points based immigration system extended to EU citizens (debatable whether that's a benefit) and some money.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry said:

    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    BJ had to lie about all the benefits (apart from the racism one) this morning - you'd have thought he'd have just chosen truthful ones seeing as there are so many right...?

    Right..?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55522329

    Which bits were lies? I have read the article. I'll give you that already making cash savings is a bit much only a couple of days into January, but the rest seems to check out.
    Pulse fishing ban and freeports were already possible as a MS, so not benefits. The 'hoover trawlers' point, while possible, seems to be something he just made up on the spot. So that leaves points based immigration system extended to EU citizens (debatable whether that's a benefit) and some money.
    Surely the few million saved gets swallowed up a thousand times over by things like the customs officials and extra quangos
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,562
    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    BJ had to lie about all the benefits (apart from the racism one) this morning - you'd have thought he'd have just chosen truthful ones seeing as there are so many right...?

    Right..?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55522329

    Which bits were lies? I have read the article. I'll give you that already making cash savings is a bit much only a couple of days into January, but the rest seems to check out.
    Pulse fishing ban and freeports were already possible as a MS, so not benefits. The 'hoover trawlers' point, while possible, seems to be something he just made up on the spot. So that leaves points based immigration system extended to EU citizens (debatable whether that's a benefit) and some money.
    Surely the few million saved gets swallowed up a thousand times over by things like the customs officials and extra quangos
    There may indeed be a detriment column.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    BJ had to lie about all the benefits (apart from the racism one) this morning - you'd have thought he'd have just chosen truthful ones seeing as there are so many right...?

    Right..?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55522329

    Which bits were lies? I have read the article. I'll give you that already making cash savings is a bit much only a couple of days into January, but the rest seems to check out.
    Pulse fishing ban and freeports were already possible as a MS, so not benefits. The 'hoover trawlers' point, while possible, seems to be something he just made up on the spot. So that leaves points based immigration system extended to EU citizens (debatable whether that's a benefit) and some money.
    Surely the few million saved gets swallowed up a thousand times over by things like the customs officials and extra quangos
    There may indeed be a detriment column.
    they're not detriments, they are opportunities, investments and jobs.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    darkhairedlord said:

    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    BJ had to lie about all the benefits (apart from the racism one) this morning - you'd have thought he'd have just chosen truthful ones seeing as there are so many right...?

    Right..?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55522329

    Which bits were lies? I have read the article. I'll give you that already making cash savings is a bit much only a couple of days into January, but the rest seems to check out.
    Pulse fishing ban and freeports were already possible as a MS, so not benefits. The 'hoover trawlers' point, while possible, seems to be something he just made up on the spot. So that leaves points based immigration system extended to EU citizens (debatable whether that's a benefit) and some money.
    Surely the few million saved gets swallowed up a thousand times over by things like the customs officials and extra quangos
    There may indeed be a detriment column.
    they're not detriments, they are opportunities, investments and jobs.
    I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,919
    rjsterry said:

    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    BJ had to lie about all the benefits (apart from the racism one) this morning - you'd have thought he'd have just chosen truthful ones seeing as there are so many right...?

    Right..?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55522329

    Which bits were lies? I have read the article. I'll give you that already making cash savings is a bit much only a couple of days into January, but the rest seems to check out.
    Pulse fishing ban and freeports were already possible as a MS, so not benefits. The 'hoover trawlers' point, while possible, seems to be something he just made up on the spot. So that leaves points based immigration system extended to EU citizens (debatable whether that's a benefit) and some money.
    Pulse fishing could only have been banned in the 12m distance. Now will be banned in all the waters.

    The supertrawlers previously couldn't be banned, so the only issue is whether they are banned.

    Freeports previously would be subject to EU rules, so the extent of their freedom was a bit limited.

    All in the article!
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    rick_chasey said:

    darkhairedlord said:

    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    BJ had to lie about all the benefits (apart from the racism one) this morning - you'd have thought he'd have just chosen truthful ones seeing as there are so many right...?

    Right..?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55522329

    Which bits were lies? I have read the article. I'll give you that already making cash savings is a bit much only a couple of days into January, but the rest seems to check out.
    Pulse fishing ban and freeports were already possible as a MS, so not benefits. The 'hoover trawlers' point, while possible, seems to be something he just made up on the spot. So that leaves points based immigration system extended to EU citizens (debatable whether that's a benefit) and some money.
    Surely the few million saved gets swallowed up a thousand times over by things like the customs officials and extra quangos
    There may indeed be a detriment column.
    they're not detriments, they are opportunities, investments and jobs.
    I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
    yes, I was.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    darkhairedlord said:

    rick_chasey said:

    darkhairedlord said:

    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    BJ had to lie about all the benefits (apart from the racism one) this morning - you'd have thought he'd have just chosen truthful ones seeing as there are so many right...?

    Right..?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55522329

    Which bits were lies? I have read the article. I'll give you that already making cash savings is a bit much only a couple of days into January, but the rest seems to check out.
    Pulse fishing ban and freeports were already possible as a MS, so not benefits. The 'hoover trawlers' point, while possible, seems to be something he just made up on the spot. So that leaves points based immigration system extended to EU citizens (debatable whether that's a benefit) and some money.
    Surely the few million saved gets swallowed up a thousand times over by things like the customs officials and extra quangos
    There may indeed be a detriment column.
    they're not detriments, they are opportunities, investments and jobs.
    I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
    yes, I was.
    Phew.

    I have genuinely heard the govt use that line sincerely so had to check.
    _
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Further cyclo-irony



    Have a feeling we're going to find out quite a few bootiful British companies don't have RoO certificates to match the marketing...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,330
    edited January 2021
    ddraver said:

    Further cyclo-irony

    Have a feeling we're going to find out quite a few bootiful British companies don't have RoO certificates to match the marketing...

    It was with a twist of irony that I was quite happy to fit my Brooks C13 saddle to my Colnago as it was made in Italy*. Truth doesn't fit the marketing! 😉

    *I know it's silly but I like the idea of keeping the illusion.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • david37
    david37 Posts: 1,313
    john80 said:

    I am keeping an eye on Facebook for which loonatics are having a Brexit party. There has got to be a few going down.

    Epicly sad
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,424
    Quick update from me on the work front to cheer people up a bit.

    1. We got confirmation that our first shipment of kit from our NL logistics op into the UK went through smoothly and with no delays. No queues reported etc and the customs process appeared to be working well (thank you DDRaver).

    2. We also heard from our advisors that the UK is dropping all but a couple of minor OECD mandated points from the EU mandatory disclosure rules (aka DAC 6) that the UK had signed up to. These rules are highly complex, subjective in many areas place a large compliance and reporting burden (plus associated costs) on businesses across Europe, with the threat of large fines for even inadvertent omissions. The first and hopefully not the last example of EU red tape being cut :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,424
    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,424
    edited January 2021
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    So, moving from Scotland to NI: have just been told by our movers that we will need to inventorise every box for customs. Just another everyday Brexit hassle I guess

    But having said that, I still suspect that on the whole we'll be on the better side of the border.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    bompington said:

    So, moving from Scotland to NI: have just been told by our movers that we will need to inventorise every box for customs. Just another everyday Brexit hassle I guess

    But having said that, I still suspect that on the whole we'll be on the better side of the border.

    Or able to at least easily cross the other one.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    morstar said:

    bompington said:

    So, moving from Scotland to NI: have just been told by our movers that we will need to inventorise every box for customs. Just another everyday Brexit hassle I guess

    But having said that, I still suspect that on the whole we'll be on the better side of the border.

    Or able to at least easily cross the other one.
    We like the look of one house which is a couple of miles from a point where the border is literally a hole in the hedge. Just to confuse everyone, we would travel due north to get to it.

    But of course we can also take advantage of, effectively, EU citizenship.

    I personally see logical, moral and emotional reasons for the UK continuing in its current form: but I have to say that, from the point of view of NI - even an increasing number of unionists - Irish unification looks more and more inevitable, and even desirable.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Stevo_666 said:

    (thank you DDRaver).

    I can't take any credit...

    I'm averaging a call every 2 days at the moment. It's interesting to see the insides of one of these huge Government Projects. Starting to think Dominic Cummings may have had a point about the civil service...

    Anyway, Declarations training starts tomorrow so hopefully next week I'l be able to...do something

    What I would say is that it seems to be very quiet in terms of numbers of Declarations at the moment, which presumably can't last if TWH is going to eat.

    😴😴😴
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    An idea of what these rules were meant to prevent would be useful here...

    If it's a sugar-ton of tax avoidance legislation I can see why Johnson didn't lead with that...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,424
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,374
    ddraver said:

    An idea of what these rules were meant to prevent would be useful here...

    If it's a sugar-ton of tax avoidance legislation I can see why Johnson didn't lead with that...


    One reason, I guess, why tax legislation is so voluminous is that clever people whose job it is to minimise tax for companies find damned clever wheezes for minimising tax, and then governments who like to keep tax coming in bring in more and more regulations to to to stop those wheezes.

    I remember filling out a claims form for Devon County Council for some minor expenses (it was no more than about £15), and I think it needed four counter-signatories... I bet each one of those had been added because of someone taking advantage of a loophole they'd found in the system.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    Why did we do that? I've never heard of it, but Mr Google says that 21 EU countries delayed their requirement to report into 2021.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,424
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    Why did we do that? I've never heard of it, but Mr Google says that 21 EU countries delayed their requirement to report into 2021.
    They delayed the first reporting deadline into 2021, but it was in law and most companies/countries had to do the rather onerous info gathering before the deferral was announced (deferred in most countries due to Covid).
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    Why did we do that? I've never heard of it, but Mr Google says that 21 EU countries delayed their requirement to report into 2021.
    They delayed the first reporting deadline into 2021, but it was in law and most companies/countries had to do the rather onerous info gathering before the deferral was announced (deferred in most countries due to Covid).
    Fair dos. I guess would have been nice to know more than a few days in advance so the work for it wasn't wasted, but good news for you. Or your company, anyway.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,424
    ddraver said:

    An idea of what these rules were meant to prevent would be useful here...

    If it's a sugar-ton of tax avoidance legislation I can see why Johnson didn't lead with that...

    It is aimed at tax avoidance but it was the way they went about it. Here's one article it for reference:
    https://nortonrosefulbright.com/en/knowledge/publications/c72547af/dac-6-uk-implementation-of-the-new-eu-tax-disclosure-rules-consultation

    As mentioned, a lot of subjective elements and often worded so widely that perfectly bona fide commercial transactions are caught, with the consequent time and cost. Typical bureaucrat think with no appreciation of the practical consequences - not just an EU failing as you allude to above.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,424
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    It's clearly true that the left (or centre left) needs to take advantage of this and say "let's do what's best for the people here, rather than just slashing regulations and taxes". The reality of which regulations were apparently stifling the UK is still to be made clear.

    I posted an example above for you.
    I don't think that regulation could be described as stifling the UK while it was a member of the EU.
    It was extra burden and cost which has now been largely eliminated. Something I no longer have to deal with as well. Good, no?

    Also not bad going for the first working day after the end of the transition period :)


    Sure. I'll take your word for it.

    Had it even been implemented by the UK before we cancelled it?
    Yes, the UK signed up to it in full, and was in force (I.e. part of UK law) last year, with retroactive effect to June 2018.
    Why did we do that? I've never heard of it, but Mr Google says that 21 EU countries delayed their requirement to report into 2021.
    They delayed the first reporting deadline into 2021, but it was in law and most companies/countries had to do the rather onerous info gathering before the deferral was announced (deferred in most countries due to Covid).
    Fair dos. I guess would have been nice to know more than a few days in advance so the work for it wasn't wasted, but good news for you. Or your company, anyway.
    It wasn't wasted in the EU countries where we operate (the large and medium sized ones plus a few of the tiddlers). UK businesses will be quietly raising a glass though.

    I await more good news...
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • david37
    david37 Posts: 1,313
    someone needs to start a bike radar tally sheet, wins against losses.

    obviously real measurable ones not hypothetical emotional possible ones.



    even though that puts the remainers at a serious disadvantage.

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