BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Ok now it’s happend Stevo can you take us on your journey from apparently remain fo ERG level Brexit?0
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Indeed, it's democracy innit. But democracy also means we have a right to say we thinks it's shit.rick_chasey said:
Yeah come on short I don’t think any of the remain lot here think remain did a good job or that the govt should actually ignore the ref result.shortfall said:
Agree.rjsterry said:
FWIW, I find his tweets pretty depressing in their detachment from reality. Even having admitted that the actions of the more hardline elements of the Remain campaign have contributed to where we are, he still can't seem to stop himself arguing that we should try to rejoin immediately. As if what the country needs is yet more upheaval.shortfall said:
They could just follow Andrew Adonis on Twitter and agree with all of his posts whilst adding suggestions of their own where he hasn't been suitably pro EU enough because even he is actually #FBPE lite compared to some of the cakestop faithful.Stevo_666 said:
I was going to suggest that myself but felt that it wouldn't be very popular. I suppose there could be a new 'Brejoin' thread for people who really want it, although not sure whether that would be any different from this one.tailwindhome said:
This thread should be locked on 31st December at 11 pm.Stevo_666 said:
How about non whingeing pact? Win-win scenario. On the other hand, this is Cake Stop....morstar said:
Seeing as the winners haven’t stopped whingeing yet, what do you expect?Stevo_666 said:
Not a bad overall approach I would say. We need to see how this turn out and also there is the question of what the EU and the world will look like in say 15 years time. No doubt the whining will continue on 1st Jan but whether anyone will be listening is another question.spatt77 said:
Its a easy moniker to label Brexiteers with!. It comes from the self belief that Remainers are right and if you disagree with them you are , racist, xenophobic or thick. Of course these Remainers are the same people that fell for the "common market" and how it wouldn't infringe on our laws or sovereignty, they were gullible then and not much has changed. Pre referendum I didn't realise how tiring it must of been to be Pro EU and listening to whinging anti EU crowd, now the tables are turned it really is tiring listening to whinging Remainers, plus you have the TV media on your side! But I like the famous quote, "Resentment is like taking a poison and waiting for the other person to die". My advice for Remainers is give it 10 to 15 years years, see if its the Armageddon you predicted and then start your campaign after all we had to wait 40 odd years, only fair eh!;)Stevo_666 said:
Anyone can be but she most definitely isn't. Not sure where this sweeping generalisation about leavers being racists comes from, other than bitterness?elbowloh said:
Well Indians can be racist too ya know.Stevo_666 said:
Do you know a lot of old people?pblakeney said:
100% of the Pro-Brexit voters that I know personally admit to being racist so it is not too hard to accept 52% being racist. A common response is "Oh them, they're alright, but not the other lot.".john80 said:You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.
Ironically my OH voted leave and she is of Indian parentage. Not sure what what the sweeping generalisers will make of that?
Not saying that your OH is, but being a foreigner doesn't mean you also don't like other foreigners.0 -
And look to be clear I was a foot soldier in the remain campaign so I have some skin in that game.0
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The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?3 -
I imagine it will be even less if you look at GDP per capita. There is a danger that the whole debate about forecasting is opened up though, so probably best to not go there.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?0 -
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Don't think he's saying 4% pa though, just 4% in total which is obviously massively different.rick_chasey said:Where’s SC to talk about compound rates
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Sounds like a rounding error in year 1 to meFirst.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?0 -
no use, brexiters will never stop whining, it's their naturetailwindhome said:
This thread should be locked on 31st December at 11 pm.Stevo_666 said:
How about non whingeing pact? Win-win scenario. On the other hand, this is Cake Stop....morstar said:
Seeing as the winners haven’t stopped whingeing yet, what do you expect?Stevo_666 said:
Not a bad overall approach I would say. We need to see how this turn out and also there is the question of what the EU and the world will look like in say 15 years time. No doubt the whining will continue on 1st Jan but whether anyone will be listening is another question.spatt77 said:
Its a easy moniker to label Brexiteers with!. It comes from the self belief that Remainers are right and if you disagree with them you are , racist, xenophobic or thick. Of course these Remainers are the same people that fell for the "common market" and how it wouldn't infringe on our laws or sovereignty, they were gullible then and not much has changed. Pre referendum I didn't realise how tiring it must of been to be Pro EU and listening to whinging anti EU crowd, now the tables are turned it really is tiring listening to whinging Remainers, plus you have the TV media on your side! But I like the famous quote, "Resentment is like taking a poison and waiting for the other person to die". My advice for Remainers is give it 10 to 15 years years, see if its the Armageddon you predicted and then start your campaign after all we had to wait 40 odd years, only fair eh!;)Stevo_666 said:
Anyone can be but she most definitely isn't. Not sure where this sweeping generalisation about leavers being racists comes from, other than bitterness?elbowloh said:
Well Indians can be racist too ya know.Stevo_666 said:
Do you know a lot of old people?pblakeney said:
100% of the Pro-Brexit voters that I know personally admit to being racist so it is not too hard to accept 52% being racist. A common response is "Oh them, they're alright, but not the other lot.".john80 said:You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.
Ironically my OH voted leave and she is of Indian parentage. Not sure what what the sweeping generalisers will make of that?
Not saying that your OH is, but being a foreigner doesn't mean you also don't like other foreigners.
they wet the bed, whine that it's someone else's fault, do it again
the fact is that brexiters are traitors, we executed a king for less, every time one of them dies the world will become just a little bit better
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny-1 -
Bit much Sungod
I mean, Brexit's a bad idea badly done, but still
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Knock yourself out. If anybody wants to campaign to remain the EU I'm not stopping them, but as Stevo points out there are those in this thread who supported every trick in the book used by Remain to frustrate the result, up to an including a second referendum, sorry "people's vote". Lord Adonis was one of the more vocal of this grouping and whilst he's entitled to campaign and pursue all legal means at his disposal to reverse what has happened, I'm equally entitled to take the p1ss out of him for having a tin ear.elbowloh said:
Indeed, it's democracy innit. But democracy also means we have a right to say we thinks it's censored .rick_chasey said:
Yeah come on short I don’t think any of the remain lot here think remain did a good job or that the govt should actually ignore the ref result.shortfall said:
Agree.rjsterry said:
FWIW, I find his tweets pretty depressing in their detachment from reality. Even having admitted that the actions of the more hardline elements of the Remain campaign have contributed to where we are, he still can't seem to stop himself arguing that we should try to rejoin immediately. As if what the country needs is yet more upheaval.shortfall said:
They could just follow Andrew Adonis on Twitter and agree with all of his posts whilst adding suggestions of their own where he hasn't been suitably pro EU enough because even he is actually #FBPE lite compared to some of the cakestop faithful.Stevo_666 said:
I was going to suggest that myself but felt that it wouldn't be very popular. I suppose there could be a new 'Brejoin' thread for people who really want it, although not sure whether that would be any different from this one.tailwindhome said:
This thread should be locked on 31st December at 11 pm.Stevo_666 said:
How about non whingeing pact? Win-win scenario. On the other hand, this is Cake Stop....morstar said:
Seeing as the winners haven’t stopped whingeing yet, what do you expect?Stevo_666 said:
Not a bad overall approach I would say. We need to see how this turn out and also there is the question of what the EU and the world will look like in say 15 years time. No doubt the whining will continue on 1st Jan but whether anyone will be listening is another question.spatt77 said:
Its a easy moniker to label Brexiteers with!. It comes from the self belief that Remainers are right and if you disagree with them you are , racist, xenophobic or thick. Of course these Remainers are the same people that fell for the "common market" and how it wouldn't infringe on our laws or sovereignty, they were gullible then and not much has changed. Pre referendum I didn't realise how tiring it must of been to be Pro EU and listening to whinging anti EU crowd, now the tables are turned it really is tiring listening to whinging Remainers, plus you have the TV media on your side! But I like the famous quote, "Resentment is like taking a poison and waiting for the other person to die". My advice for Remainers is give it 10 to 15 years years, see if its the Armageddon you predicted and then start your campaign after all we had to wait 40 odd years, only fair eh!;)Stevo_666 said:
Anyone can be but she most definitely isn't. Not sure where this sweeping generalisation about leavers being racists comes from, other than bitterness?elbowloh said:
Well Indians can be racist too ya know.Stevo_666 said:
Do you know a lot of old people?pblakeney said:
100% of the Pro-Brexit voters that I know personally admit to being racist so it is not too hard to accept 52% being racist. A common response is "Oh them, they're alright, but not the other lot.".john80 said:You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.
Ironically my OH voted leave and she is of Indian parentage. Not sure what what the sweeping generalisers will make of that?
Not saying that your OH is, but being a foreigner doesn't mean you also don't like other foreigners.0 -
I could sit quietly and wait for you to discover that I am right and achieve godlike status in your eyes.david37 said:
Yes I meant to put the question mark, it’s indicating incredulity and asking if your position of insight on a deal that hadnt been published and you hadn’t read and much less understood, was where you really stood.surrey_commuter said:
Did you mean to put the ?david37 said:
within hours of a deal being announced and before it was published your superior brain and negotiating skills announce what is so wrong?surrey_commuter said:
How could it be worse? He missed 80% of the economy. I guess if I had missed services and fishing I could have got to 80.1%.david37 said:
Glass always totally empty still. I wish you were negotiating it would have gone swimmingly.surrey_commuter said:
Depending upon how you look at it this will come to be seen as the biggest omission or biggest accomplishment and in many ways symptomatic of the exclusion of 80% of the UK economy from Boris’s world beating FTA.TheBigBean said:
Doesn't have free movement of people either. Lots of things it doesn't have that weren't expected.rick_chasey said:
Worth reiterating.TheBigBean said:
Have you been following the last 9 months?rick_chasey said:No fs passporting
Makes a difference to my job
But I am genuinely interested how you feel it could have been worse.
You are a political social media bot and I claim my £5
I never used to think of myself as intellectually superior.
What bit do you think is the difficult bit that makes me clever;
Knowing 80% of our economy is services?
Knowing we have a £20bn trade surplus in services?
Knowing we have a £100bn trade deficit in goods?
Knowing Boris’s deal does not cover services?
Far from it being a genuine suggestion you had intellectual superiority i was pointing out the crass stupidity of your position.
That you thought otherwise merely serves to reinforce my opinion (based on fact) that you are actually a bit thick and prone to hysterical outburst.
As it is Xmas I will admit that this is all publicly available info and even Boris has conceded it is a shame services are not included.
Now if I am not an intellectual colossus then what other possibility does that leave?0 -
As a former remainer, I think having made the incorrect decision that the UK was too weak and pathetic to exert our influence within the EU, this deal is as good as could be. Anything more tied would mean more whining from the brexiters forever, and anything less would mean the conservatives donors could insist on reducing standards.
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Having skimmed the last few pages I still can't work out what annoys some people on here the most, the prospect of leaving on WTO terms or admitting that Boris has come back with a half decent deal.4
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It's not a lot over 15 years.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
That's as close to a compliment for Boris as I think we'll ever get on here.kingstongraham said:As a former remainer, I think having made the incorrect decision that the UK was too weak and pathetic to exert our influence within the EU, this deal is as good as could be. Anything more tied would mean more whining from the brexiters forever, and anything less would mean the conservatives donors could insist on reducing standards.
Former remainer?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think KG actually gets it now. No such thing as a Remainer now, and hasn't been for some time. They are now Rejoiners.Stevo_666 said:
That's as close to a compliment for Boris as I think we'll ever get on here.kingstongraham said:As a former remainer, I think having made the incorrect decision that the UK was too weak and pathetic to exert our influence within the EU, this deal is as good as could be. Anything more tied would mean more whining from the brexiters forever, and anything less would mean the conservatives donors could insist on reducing standards.
Former remainer?0 -
I'd be happy to if it was.rick_chasey said:Ok now it’s happend Stevo can you take us on your journey from apparently remain fo ERG level Brexit?
What's your journey? You started out by whining a lot about the result and here we are over 4 years later..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nobody is denying anyone the right to free speech. Note that free speech also includes the right to tell whiners when they've repeated themselves ad nauseumelbowloh said:
Indeed, it's democracy innit. But democracy also means we have a right to say we thinks it's censored .rick_chasey said:
Yeah come on short I don’t think any of the remain lot here think remain did a good job or that the govt should actually ignore the ref result.shortfall said:
Agree.rjsterry said:
FWIW, I find his tweets pretty depressing in their detachment from reality. Even having admitted that the actions of the more hardline elements of the Remain campaign have contributed to where we are, he still can't seem to stop himself arguing that we should try to rejoin immediately. As if what the country needs is yet more upheaval.shortfall said:
They could just follow Andrew Adonis on Twitter and agree with all of his posts whilst adding suggestions of their own where he hasn't been suitably pro EU enough because even he is actually #FBPE lite compared to some of the cakestop faithful.Stevo_666 said:
I was going to suggest that myself but felt that it wouldn't be very popular. I suppose there could be a new 'Brejoin' thread for people who really want it, although not sure whether that would be any different from this one.tailwindhome said:
This thread should be locked on 31st December at 11 pm.Stevo_666 said:
How about non whingeing pact? Win-win scenario. On the other hand, this is Cake Stop....morstar said:
Seeing as the winners haven’t stopped whingeing yet, what do you expect?Stevo_666 said:
Not a bad overall approach I would say. We need to see how this turn out and also there is the question of what the EU and the world will look like in say 15 years time. No doubt the whining will continue on 1st Jan but whether anyone will be listening is another question.spatt77 said:
Its a easy moniker to label Brexiteers with!. It comes from the self belief that Remainers are right and if you disagree with them you are , racist, xenophobic or thick. Of course these Remainers are the same people that fell for the "common market" and how it wouldn't infringe on our laws or sovereignty, they were gullible then and not much has changed. Pre referendum I didn't realise how tiring it must of been to be Pro EU and listening to whinging anti EU crowd, now the tables are turned it really is tiring listening to whinging Remainers, plus you have the TV media on your side! But I like the famous quote, "Resentment is like taking a poison and waiting for the other person to die". My advice for Remainers is give it 10 to 15 years years, see if its the Armageddon you predicted and then start your campaign after all we had to wait 40 odd years, only fair eh!;)Stevo_666 said:
Anyone can be but she most definitely isn't. Not sure where this sweeping generalisation about leavers being racists comes from, other than bitterness?elbowloh said:
Well Indians can be racist too ya know.Stevo_666 said:
Do you know a lot of old people?pblakeney said:
100% of the Pro-Brexit voters that I know personally admit to being racist so it is not too hard to accept 52% being racist. A common response is "Oh them, they're alright, but not the other lot.".john80 said:You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.
Ironically my OH voted leave and she is of Indian parentage. Not sure what what the sweeping generalisers will make of that?
Not saying that your OH is, but being a foreigner doesn't mean you also don't like other foreigners.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It’s also not an improvement. Bizarre how easily you’re pleased!Stevo_666 said:
It's not a lot over 15 years.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?
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Where did I say that?pinkbikini said:
It’s also not an improvement. Bizarre how easily you’re pleased!Stevo_666 said:
It's not a lot over 15 years.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think what's annoying remainers is the gap between 'half decent' and what we already had.ballysmate said:Having skimmed the last few pages I still can't work out what annoys some people on here the most, the prospect of leaving on WTO terms or admitting that Boris has come back with a half decent deal.
Even more annoying is that Brexiteers seems oblivious to the gap between the 'half decent' deal and what they were promised.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Ah, you didn’t say that directly. You seemed to imply it wasn’t much of an issue. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood your motives - apols if that’s the case. I’m assuming you’d prefer an outcome where the economy wasn’t predicted to shrink then?Stevo_666 said:
Where did I say that?pinkbikini said:
It’s also not an improvement. Bizarre how easily you’re pleased!Stevo_666 said:
It's not a lot over 15 years.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?0 -
Sounds like a band name.ballysmate said:
I think KG actually gets it now. No such thing as a Remainer now, and hasn't been for some time. They are now Rejoiners.Stevo_666 said:
That's as close to a compliment for Boris as I think we'll ever get on here.kingstongraham said:As a former remainer, I think having made the incorrect decision that the UK was too weak and pathetic to exert our influence within the EU, this deal is as good as could be. Anything more tied would mean more whining from the brexiters forever, and anything less would mean the conservatives donors could insist on reducing standards.
Former remainer?
I think KG is in a minority however."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Open to more people? Although most Erasmus projects and exchanges are in the field of higher education (and so most participants are students), depending on the project/exchange, participants can actually be uni lecturers, apprentices in vocational training, professionals in research, teachers and pupils in primary and secondary schools, non-vocational adult education staff and pupils, youth workers, athletes, coaches and even just volunteer helpers in sport, as well as generally all young people between 13 and 30 (to name just some categories).david37 said:oh no the erasmus scheme is going
. its being replaced by one that is open to more people and more countries. Erasmus plus.
It's hard to see how the government's new idea is going to be 'open to more people' than Erasmus now is, especially as the govt have already said their scheme will be for higher and further education students, with no mention of other categories.
More countries? Erasmus isn't just restricted to the EU; there are 33 programme countries in Erasmus, but also about 170 partner countries or dependencies. Erasmus projects mostly take place in programme countries, but partner countries can apply to send participants to them, to organise projects in their own countries (which does happen, with participants from programme countries going there) or to be awarded Erasmus scholarships. Several partner countries make good use of their partnership status. But the UK doesn't even seem to be considering partner status.
So where are the govt's 'more countries' coming from? Well yes, there are about 30 other (small) places in the World which don't participate in Erasmus, mostly dependencies, e.g. Falkland Islands. Big plus!
The possibility of placements/exchanges with the USA has been touted, but already now, under Erasmus, about 3,000 p.a. move in each direction between Europe and the USA, so there is really no need for another (less well-financed) scheme.
It is purely a political isolationist decision to leave Erasmus.0 -
I'm simply putting it into context. Not sure if you were part of the debate since 2016 but there have been so many apocalyptic economic and business predicted times on here that bit of balance is needed sometimes.pinkbikini said:
Ah, you didn’t say that directly. You seemed to imply it wasn’t much of an issue. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood your motives - apols if that’s the case. I’m assuming you’d prefer an outcome where the economy wasn’t predicted to shrink then?Stevo_666 said:
Where did I say that?pinkbikini said:
It’s also not an improvement. Bizarre how easily you’re pleased!Stevo_666 said:
It's not a lot over 15 years.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?
As I've said before - that is assuming that long term forecasting is accurate. And in any even there is no alternative reality where we never left that we can look at to compare. Both well debated on here before."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Dorset_Boy said:
Don't think he's saying 4% pa though, just 4% in total which is obviously massively different.rick_chasey said:Where’s SC to talk about compound rates
I can’t be arsed to do the maths but I imagine it is not far off the £4,300 per household that was dismissed as project fear.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?
Ignore me it is much worse.
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We've been here before and the same reasoning applies this time. Bigbean even hinted at it further up. That 4% in 15 years time could easily be related to lower EU immigration in year 1 compounding, but you will see no difference on a per capita basis.pinkbikini said:
Ah, you didn’t say that directly. You seemed to imply it wasn’t much of an issue. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood your motives - apols if that’s the case. I’m assuming you’d prefer an outcome where the economy wasn’t predicted to shrink then?Stevo_666 said:
Where did I say that?pinkbikini said:
It’s also not an improvement. Bizarre how easily you’re pleased!Stevo_666 said:
It's not a lot over 15 years.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?0 -
Not sure how you get that. Unless it's over 15 years, in which case that's less than £300 a year.surrey_commuter said:Dorset_Boy said:
Don't think he's saying 4% pa though, just 4% in total which is obviously massively different.rick_chasey said:Where’s SC to talk about compound rates
I can’t be arsed to do the maths but I imagine it is not far off the £4,300 per household that was dismissed as project fear.First.Aspect said:The latest forecasts are that the economy will be 4% smaller than it would have been... After 15 years.
I am a remainer. But is it just me or is that really not very much?
Ignore me it is much worse."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
We left the EU in January.Stevo_666 said:
That's as close to a compliment for Boris as I think we'll ever get on here.kingstongraham said:As a former remainer, I think having made the incorrect decision that the UK was too weak and pathetic to exert our influence within the EU, this deal is as good as could be. Anything more tied would mean more whining from the brexiters forever, and anything less would mean the conservatives donors could insist on reducing standards.
Former remainer?
Not a good decision, as you would agree, but you can't remain in something that you've already left.
Not a compliment to Boris, that would be like Stockholm syndrome.0
