BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
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You seem to think we're going to get everything that is promised. Did you not learn anything from the WA or the FTA agreement?david37 said:oh no the erasmus scheme is going
. its being replaced by one that is open to more people and more countries. Erasmus plus.
havent noticed the remoaner world is going to end bedwetters complaining about that.0 -
Why not keep Erasmus and enact a new one that is the same for non-EU?david37 said:oh no the erasmus scheme is going
. its being replaced by one that is open to more people and more countries. Erasmus plus.
havent noticed the remoaner world is going to end bedwetters complaining about that.
The fact the new one is materially less expensive suggests they are not looking to create Erasmus plus.
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Both innit.Stevo_666 said:
Are you talking about the EU FS industry?rick_chasey said:
FS has essentially been given “no deal” and has materially less optionality as an industry than it did.
The City has basically been told “look after yourself we won’t” by the govt.
That strikes me as odd as FS is a great asset that they ought to protect.
Maybe the government wants to rebalance towards other industries but they haven’t said this.
The big nations of the EU have bigger advantages over the U.K. in manufacturing and the U.K. has advantages in services so it’s a shame for the U.K. that the trade deal focuses on goods and not services, wouldn’t you say?0 -
You would think that given the relatively small size of the UK armed forces but relatively large expenditure it would be a good candidate for pivoting to a “ahead of the curve” innovative armed forces that relies less on big expensive set piece conventional forces and more on efficient, technologically advanced strengths that reflect the likelier threats.surrey_commuter said:
Try and let it go with the anti EU stuff and focus on the UKTheBigBean said:
Who doesn't accept this? No one is claiming the UK is going to be a world power. Attempting to be a world power is something a nearby organisation aspires to...surrey_commuter said:
If only we could accept that it would be a good thing.TheBigBean said:
Similar to Canada.rick_chasey said:Seriously what role does the U.K. play in the post Brexit?
Anyone sensible with any ideas?
I don’t believe our politicians accept we are no longer a global player. I hate the obsession with “punching above our weight” which results in us being lumbered with aircraft carriers and joining in with any war the US wants us to.
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It does seem a bit like throwing away your best hand.rick_chasey said:
Both innit.Stevo_666 said:
Are you talking about the EU FS industry?rick_chasey said:
FS has essentially been given “no deal” and has materially less optionality as an industry than it did.
The City has basically been told “look after yourself we won’t” by the govt.
That strikes me as odd as FS is a great asset that they ought to protect.
Maybe the government wants to rebalance towards other industries but they haven’t said this.
The big nations of the EU have bigger advantages over the U.K. in manufacturing and the U.K. has advantages in services so it’s a shame for the U.K. that the trade deal focuses on goods and not services, wouldn’t you say?0 -
I seem to remember reading that Erasmus is gradually opening up to non-EU opportunities anyway, and will continue to do so. Can’t find the reference now though.rick_chasey said:
Why not keep Erasmus and enact a new one that is the same for non-EU?david37 said:oh no the erasmus scheme is going
. its being replaced by one that is open to more people and more countries. Erasmus plus.
havent noticed the remoaner world is going to end bedwetters complaining about that.
The fact the new one is materially less expensive suggests they are not looking to create Erasmus plus.
Sending a student to, say, a US college will surely be materially more expensive? So perhaps overall fewer opportunities, or reduced scope.
Like so much of the Brexit process, I find it irritating to see a workable scheme being replicated. I’m sure the costs will be huge. But in theory the expanded scope might be of benefit to many if it’s implemented well.
Process being overseen by Williamson, just about the most incompetent minister of the past few years. There’s the red flag!0 -
That and Johnson said in parliament that they would not scrap Erasmus so why believe about this?pinkbikini said:
I seem to remember reading that Erasmus is gradually opening up to non-EU opportunities anyway, and will continue to do so. Can’t find the reference now though.rick_chasey said:
Why not keep Erasmus and enact a new one that is the same for non-EU?david37 said:oh no the erasmus scheme is going
. its being replaced by one that is open to more people and more countries. Erasmus plus.
havent noticed the remoaner world is going to end bedwetters complaining about that.
The fact the new one is materially less expensive suggests they are not looking to create Erasmus plus.
Sending a student to, say, a US college will surely be materially more expensive? So perhaps overall fewer opportunities, or reduced scope.
Like so much of the Brexit process, I find it irritating to see a workable scheme being replicated. I’m sure the costs will be huge. But in theory the expanded scope might be of benefit to many if it’s implemented well.
Process being overseen by Williamson, just about the most incompetent minister of the past few years. There’s the red flag!0 -
Its a easy moniker to label Brexiteers with!. It comes from the self belief that Remainers are right and if you disagree with them you are , racist, xenophobic or thick. Of course these Remainers are the same people that fell for the "common market" and how it wouldn't infringe on our laws or sovereignty, they were gullible then and not much has changed. Pre referendum I didn't realise how tiring it must of been to be Pro EU and listening to whinging anti EU crowd, now the tables are turned it really is tiring listening to whinging Remainers, plus you have the TV media on your side! But I like the famous quote, "Resentment is like taking a poison and waiting for the other person to die". My advice for Remainers is give it 10 to 15 years years, see if its the Armageddon you predicted and then start your campaign after all we had to wait 40 odd years, only fair eh!;)Stevo_666 said:
Anyone can be but she most definitely isn't. Not sure where this sweeping generalisation about leavers being racists comes from, other than bitterness?elbowloh said:
Well Indians can be racist too ya know.Stevo_666 said:
Do you know a lot of old people?pblakeney said:
100% of the Pro-Brexit voters that I know personally admit to being racist so it is not too hard to accept 52% being racist. A common response is "Oh them, they're alright, but not the other lot.".john80 said:You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.
Ironically my OH voted leave and she is of Indian parentage. Not sure what what the sweeping generalisers will make of that?
Not saying that your OH is, but being a foreigner doesn't mean you also don't like other foreigners.3 -
Can you please not tar all those who voted remain with the same brush. It smacks of hypocrisy, and we know that is the worst sin of all. Thank you.0
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My apologies Graham, its quite annoying when people put you in one ideological group isn't it?1
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Apology accepted.spatt77 said:My apologies Graham, its quite annoying when people put you in one ideological group isn't it?
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I look forward to you calling this out going forward rather than staying quiet, no matter which side makes the generalisation...kingstongraham said:Can you please not tar all those who voted remain with the same brush. It smacks of hypocrisy, and we know that is the worst sin of all. Thank you.
You wouldn't want to be hung by your own hypocrisy now, would you?1 -
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It's also very easy to say that's bullshit because myself and many other remainders weren't even bloody born when we joined the common market.
Also, from looking back most of the laws coming from the EU have been good for us (if you ignore the absolute made-up crap about bananas and the like from the Mail). We also don't really give much of a toss about the sovereignty argument because the UK had a say, had a veto, had MEPs and from put point of view the politicians in Europe couldn't be any worse than the shower of shit that have been served up to us over the decade by parties of all shades.0 -
materially less expensive seems like a good idea to me in the current circumstances. And when youre unemployd and unemployable you might appreciate less waste.rick_chasey said:
Why not keep Erasmus and enact a new one that is the same for non-EU?david37 said:oh no the erasmus scheme is going
. its being replaced by one that is open to more people and more countries. Erasmus plus.
havent noticed the remoaner world is going to end bedwetters complaining about that.
The fact the new one is materially less expensive suggests they are not looking to create Erasmus plus.1 -
I'm loving this, all these remoaners set off again by something they said wouldnt happen.
My thoughts...... better to look for good than hypothetical despair and disaster. You'll feel better and have the wherewithall to make the best of a fantastic one off opportunity.0 -
Sorry what’s the argument here? That it’s good the scheme is Erasmus plus or is it good that it’s gone because you want...more money for benefits?david37 said:
materially less expensive seems like a good idea to me in the current circumstances. And when youre unemployd and unemployable you might appreciate less waste.rick_chasey said:
Why not keep Erasmus and enact a new one that is the same for non-EU?david37 said:oh no the erasmus scheme is going
. its being replaced by one that is open to more people and more countries. Erasmus plus.
havent noticed the remoaner world is going to end bedwetters complaining about that.
The fact the new one is materially less expensive suggests they are not looking to create Erasmus plus.
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I'd also ask the question, what about sovereignty in Northern Ireland?0
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that its good spending less and that you'll be glad of benefits when you're redundant which seems to be something you fear.rick_chasey said:
Sorry what’s the argument here? That it’s good the scheme is Erasmus plus or is it good that it’s gone because you want...more money for benefits?david37 said:
materially less expensive seems like a good idea to me in the current circumstances. And when youre unemployd and unemployable you might appreciate less waste.rick_chasey said:
Why not keep Erasmus and enact a new one that is the same for non-EU?david37 said:oh no the erasmus scheme is going
. its being replaced by one that is open to more people and more countries. Erasmus plus.
havent noticed the remoaner world is going to end bedwetters complaining about that.
The fact the new one is materially less expensive suggests they are not looking to create Erasmus plus.0 -
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“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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So you actually get joy out of people's unhappiness and concern over their livelihoods and children's futures. Says a lot about you.david37 said:I'm loving this, all these remoaners set off again by something they said wouldnt happen.
My thoughts...... better to look for good than hypothetical despair and disaster. You'll feel better and have the wherewithall to make the best of a fantastic one off opportunity.0 -
I don’t know enough about the workings of Erasmus, and I tend to think quite simplistically about these things.
Current Erasmus - UK contributes, funds a UK student studying for a year in a Madrid uni and a Spanish student studying for a year in a London uni. 2 way traffic.
New Turing scheme - UK contributes, funds a UK student studying in California for a year. 1 way traffic, hence much cheaper.
Won’t UK universities be the big funding loser in this example? Or does it work differently?0 -
We didn't make use of the freedoms we had as a MS, so while on paper we might have fewer constraints, we have a history of not making the most of the opportunities we have. Just this morning, Gove is proudly announcing a thing that we could have done all along but had chosen not to. The question is if free ports are such a brilliant idea why have we not made use of them already? What specific proposals are you aware of that make use of these new freedoms? There's some vague hand-wavey stuff about tech, but no suggestion of what that will be or how it was previously not possible.Stevo_666 said:
So we will have less scope to act independently than when we were part of the EU?rjsterry said:
This 'they were holding us back' nonsense never dies does it.Stevo_666 said:
Hard to predict, but probably more than before now we have more freedom to do so.rick_chasey said:Post Brexit world. You know what I mean.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think standards need to change by enough to be distorting the market, but assuming that test is passed in two different sectors, I suppose it would be possible to have tariffs being applied by both sides at the same time. Given that they can be applied to any sector and not just the affected one, you would hope both sides might compromise.kingstongraham said:
They can only reduce some standards if the corresponding increase in standards actually has a similar reverse impact to the same industries, can't they? So increasing animal welfare standards while reducing safety standards in fireworks factories wouldn't be doable. Correct me if that's not right.TheBigBean said:
It is possible to raise standards in some areas and reduce them in others. So far all the noise is about higher standards for animal welfare, the environment and carbon reduction. I would expect health and safety will also see a standard increase as it has historically been the UK pushing for that in the EU.rick_chasey said:Not really sure you got the point but let’s just say the home office minister has been on public record about it frequently. I’m not saying it’ll come back
It doesn’t give off the “raising” standards vibe - I probably could have picked a better examples.
But quite a few of you seem to think this govt is capable of governance and competence that their track record does not deserve.
In contrast, I would expect this government to reduce some social standards. Then labour can increase them if they ever win an election.0 -
Surely under Erasmus Spain would also contribute?pinkbikini said:I don’t know enough about the workings of Erasmus, and I tend to think quite simplistically about these things.
Current Erasmus - UK contributes, funds a UK student studying for a year in a Madrid uni and a Spanish student studying for a year in a London uni. 2 way traffic.
New Turing scheme - UK contributes, funds a UK student studying in California for a year. 1 way traffic, hence much cheaper.
Won’t UK universities be the big funding loser in this example? Or does it work differently?
Also, not sure how much cheaper it is bearing in mind the cost of tuition at most US colleges.0 -
Nah, was a joke. I don't think hypocrisy means that you're wrong.coopster_the_1st said:
I look forward to you calling this out going forward rather than staying quiet, no matter which side makes the generalisation...kingstongraham said:Can you please not tar all those who voted remain with the same brush. It smacks of hypocrisy, and we know that is the worst sin of all. Thank you.
You wouldn't want to be hung by your own hypocrisy now, would you?
All you leave snowflakes don't understand it's just part of the human condition to feel the need to self justify.0 -
Yes, obv. meant to say under Erasmus UK contributes to a pot of funding, along with Spain, etc.elbowloh said:
Surely under Erasmus Spain would also contribute?pinkbikini said:I don’t know enough about the workings of Erasmus, and I tend to think quite simplistically about these things.
Current Erasmus - UK contributes, funds a UK student studying for a year in a Madrid uni and a Spanish student studying for a year in a London uni. 2 way traffic.
New Turing scheme - UK contributes, funds a UK student studying in California for a year. 1 way traffic, hence much cheaper.
Won’t UK universities be the big funding loser in this example? Or does it work differently?
Also, not sure how much cheaper it is bearing in mind the cost of tuition at most US colleges.
And the much cheaper comment was my attempt at positivity around the new scheme, but I also have doubts!0 -
This is a fair point and much the same as reducing carbon in one country only to increase it in another.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:So far all the noise is about higher standards for animal welfare, the environment and carbon reduction.
I really hope this is the case, but the tension with the Tory Party is that these aspirations are countered by the tenets of lowering costs through competition. The noises for a US trade deal which would have allowed cheaper imported food produced in systems that would not be legal here illustrated the point.
Historically the UK has actually been good on this, even in comparison with the EU, when the UK outlawed certain practices (sow crates is one that comes to mind) before the rest of the EU did (hey, sovereignty
), but it comes at a price.
You could actually improve the UK environment by reducing more intensive farming methods (see the book 'Wilding', for instance), but once you start importing food to replace the lost production, you are simply exporting the environmental impact elsewhere, especially if the food is produced by even more intensive methods (eg US feed lots and prairies).0 -
I, for one, am glad the Conservative Party have thrown off the shackles of the Single Market and can begin their long term plan to level up the UK.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
