BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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The Institute for Government have analysed the deal
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/future-relationship-trade-deal/goods“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Quite right! The Home Office have a long and distinguished history of dealing with such things. One only has to look at their recent record to see just how reliable and efficient they are.john80 said:
When you are googling bring us up a full list of the criteria the government are using. If the government is acting outside this then yes I will back those wronged. However in my experience those getting decisions against them rarely tell the full story on the internet if it is not beneficial to their case.pinkbikini said:And just to add:
“It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction”
That’s not backed up when you look at status refusals. Admittedly we’re talking small percentages of the overall here, but 3mins googling gives you an answer, not an assumption!1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Name the things that are easier to do with a weaker economy.john80 said:
1600 pages on and you still think brexit was a purely GDP based decision.ugo.santalucia said:If there is a world of opportunities out there, how come I have yet to see a single report into how better off we will be once we're out of the Union?
My impression is that there aren't many opportunities that we didn't have already. Yes, we can in principle have a trade agreement with the US and maybe even China, but are they really going to bring any prosperity?
It's not that free trade per se is a good thing... you also need something to actually trade and if we aren't already trading it, then it's probably because there is no demand for it...
We're not in the EU, we can rack up as much debt as we like... but we don't want to... ultimately, we will follow pretty similar rules but maybe allow bananas of any shape to enter the market... is this what ultimately is all about? Having the freedom to trade in ounces and pounds and not having anyone supervising our finances?
It's not that when my parents stopped having a say on my finances I suddenly became wealthy...
Or take a flagship Brexit policy and explain how it is easier to achieve with a weaker economy and lower tax revenues.
1) levelling up the north
2) £350m extra a week for the NHS0 -
Full on hypocrite hysteria.rick_chasey said:Sure.
Now I have children my horizon is beyond 10 years tbh.
The thing is the relationship with the EU will be constantly reassessed, renegotiated etc.
There is also the wider strategic question of how does the U.K. place itself in the world, when the strategy for the last half century has been fundamentally based on EU membership.
Being a medium power on your own is a very different geopolitical system and I think currently, the government and the civil service haven’t got their head around the future. If they have they certainly haven’t articulated it.
In the shorter term there is challenge that China is not the ally the U.K. thought it was 8 years ago and the US is moving in a more pro-EU phase, so where does that leave the U.K.?
Meanwhile you’ve got the devolution problems which are absolutely coming down the road and will be very distracting politically when they do.
This all with a backdrop of self inflicted economic drag.
The easy bit is over - this stuff is the hard stuff.
If you truly believed the bollox you write above, any responsible parent would have moved to an EU country in the last 4.5 years to protect their children.
Your actions speak way louder than the bollox you type.0 -
Tariff free goods helps the EU more anyway as they’re bigger manufacturers than the U.K. which is mainly services. Shame they ignored that bit0
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Trying to get into the head of a Brexiter. So far losing the right to tow a trailer or drive a 7.5t HGV without a test equates to losing the right to live in the country where your children live and no longer having the freedom to live and work in another country due to the UK choosing to leave the EU is the fault of the other country.
It's a strange place to be.0 -
Most of them won’t have exercised those rights and had no plans to so it’s no biggie.Pross said:Trying to get into the head of a Brexiter. So far losing the right to tow a trailer or drive a 7.5t HGV without a test equates to losing the right to live in the country where your children live and no longer having the freedom to live and work in another country due to the UK choosing to leave the EU is the fault of the other country.
It's a strange place to be.
Lots of people don’t even move out of the town they were brought up in.0 -
Are the Leave side on here happy with the final outcome or would they have preferred to leave on WTO terms?
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I doubt many would know the difference.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm genuinely interested. Although I don't particularly agree with TBB or John80 it's enlightening to get a different opinion and see what the bigger picture is with Brexit. Obviously, for us to move forward Brexiteers need to be happy with the deal or otherwise the goalposts are going to shift again.rjsterry said:I doubt many would know the difference.
My only hope with Brexit is that the government of the day are now held accountable. I think John80 alluded to this in previous posts. If they can't blame Europe for everything going forward then that is one highlight for me. I fear that they will still try to blame Europe though.0 -
Not arguing! Just pointing out that Gov guidelines and criteria are never fully documented and trip many people up. In some cases (from personal experience) you’d need a crystal ball to predict evidence you’d require in 20yrs time!pangolin said:
Your link doesn't seem to actually list the criteria you need to fulfill, or a full list of things that would mean you weren't eligible. As you seem to admit above.john80 said:
When you are googling bring us up a full list of the criteria the government are using. If the government is acting outside this then yes I will back those wronged. However in my experience those getting decisions against them rarely tell the full story on the internet if it is not beneficial to their case.pinkbikini said:And just to add:
“It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction”
That’s not backed up when you look at status refusals. Admittedly we’re talking small percentages of the overall here, but 3mins googling gives you an answer, not an assumption!
Wtf are you guys arguing about.
I object to people when they say something along the lines of “it’s no big deal, Brexit hasn’t made the process of choosing to settle in the UK more difficult”. That’s all.
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I think it's likely that potential amendments to this agreement will become one of the issues at each general election, with each party claiming they will improve on the current agreement by adding X. I don't for a moment think this will stop eurosceptic politicians from blaming the EU for this or that.skyblueamateur said:
I'm genuinely interested. Although I don't particularly agree with TBB or John80 it's enlightening to get a different opinion and see what the bigger picture is with Brexit. Obviously, for us to move forward Brexiteers need to be happy with the deal or otherwise the goalposts are going to shift again.rjsterry said:I doubt many would know the difference.
My only hope with Brexit is that the government of the day are now held accountable. I think John80 alluded to this in previous posts. If they can't blame Europe for everything going forward then that is one highlight for me. I fear that they will still try to blame Europe though.
I also think people who have spent the last 40 years nursing their resentment will not suddenly stop, regardless of whether their previously stated aims have been met.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Brexit was always about foreigners and foreign accents in the high street. The rest is just a smoke screen to hide their racism behind.skyblueamateur said:
I'm genuinely interested. Although I don't particularly agree with TBB or John80 it's enlightening to get a different opinion and see what the bigger picture is with Brexit. Obviously, for us to move forward Brexiteers need to be happy with the deal or otherwise the goalposts are going to shift again.rjsterry said:I doubt many would know the difference.
My only hope with Brexit is that the government of the day are now held accountable. I think John80 alluded to this in previous posts. If they can't blame Europe for everything going forward then that is one highlight for me. I fear that they will still try to blame Europe though.0 -
I can't see the EU whingeing stopping, after 40 years of blaming 'someone foreign' for all our woes (whilst ignoring the fact that the UK was part of it).
Every time the EU do something, the UK will have to choose how to respond (and vice versa), with the agreed mechanisms (and we'll probably whinge about the mechanisms, despite having signed up to them). I think the EU Whingers would like to pretend that the EU isn't there, or will have no effect on how the UK operates with this 'sovereignty' thing, and they (the EUW) will be sadly disappointed when they realise that was never a realistic prospect. And so the whingeing will continue.0 -
I called that we should have gone WTO terms on 1st December. This was because the damage of the uncertainty was creating to business.skyblueamateur said:Are the Leave side on here happy with the final outcome or would they have preferred to leave on WTO terms?
However, with hindsight and now knowing how the negotiations were actually moving forward towards a sensible outcome I would not have made that call with that great knowledge.
As to the outcome, yes I am overall happy as I always wanted an FTA. I can accept the rest of the agreement and see how it works out over the next few years. If there is anything we don't like as a country, Parliament and the electorate through elections, can update it as needed.0 -
I don't know where the driving licence thing came from, but this is the guidance, it looks the same as before, plus the green card, which is little more than a formality, although I am not sure why one needs to contact the insurer 6 weeks before travel...
[quote]Yes, but you'll need to take your driving licence, log book (V5C) and valid insurance documents.
You will need to contact your insurer six weeks before you travel to get a green card that will prove you have insurance that covers you in Europe.[/quote]left the forum March 20230 -
Has anyone seen anything that defines this new strategy?rick_chasey said:Sure.
Now I have children my horizon is beyond 10 years tbh.
The thing is the relationship with the EU will be constantly reassessed, renegotiated etc.
There is also the wider strategic question of how does the U.K. place itself in the world, when the strategy for the last half century has been fundamentally based on EU membership.
Being a medium power on your own is a very different geopolitical system and I think currently, the government and the civil service haven’t got their head around the future. If they have they certainly haven’t articulated it.
In the shorter term there is challenge that China is not the ally the U.K. thought it was 8 years ago and the US is moving in a more pro-EU phase, so where does that leave the U.K.?
Meanwhile you’ve got the devolution problems which are absolutely coming down the road and will be very distracting politically when they do.
This all with a backdrop of self inflicted economic drag.
The easy bit is over - this stuff is the hard stuff.
Because now might be a good time to have one.0 -
NO, NO, NO!!!!!coopster_the_1st said:
I called that we should have gone WTO terms on 1st December. This was because the damage of the uncertainty was creating to business.skyblueamateur said:Are the Leave side on here happy with the final outcome or would they have preferred to leave on WTO terms?
However, with hindsight and now knowing how the negotiations were actually moving forward towards a sensible outcome I would not have made that call with that great knowledge.
As to the outcome, yes I am overall happy as I always wanted an FTA. I can accept the rest of the agreement and see how it works out over the next few years. If there is anything we don't like as a country, Parliament and the electorate through elections, can update it as needed.
You did not always want an FTA
You are the person who voted Leave to strengthen Cameron’s hand for a renegotiation around the edges.
That is a large amount of egg to have on your face and probably explains the bitterness that you drag behind you.
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For politicians this was always about sovereignty - they have no strategy for they have no understanding or interest in economics.rick_chasey said:
Has anyone seen anything that defines this new strategy?rick_chasey said:Sure.
Now I have children my horizon is beyond 10 years tbh.
The thing is the relationship with the EU will be constantly reassessed, renegotiated etc.
There is also the wider strategic question of how does the U.K. place itself in the world, when the strategy for the last half century has been fundamentally based on EU membership.
Being a medium power on your own is a very different geopolitical system and I think currently, the government and the civil service haven’t got their head around the future. If they have they certainly haven’t articulated it.
In the shorter term there is challenge that China is not the ally the U.K. thought it was 8 years ago and the US is moving in a more pro-EU phase, so where does that leave the U.K.?
Meanwhile you’ve got the devolution problems which are absolutely coming down the road and will be very distracting politically when they do.
This all with a backdrop of self inflicted economic drag.
The easy bit is over - this stuff is the hard stuff.
Because now might be a good time to have one.
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darkhairedlord said:
Brexit was always about foreigners and foreign accents in the high street. The rest is just a smoke screen to hide their racism behind.skyblueamateur said:
I'm genuinely interested. Although I don't particularly agree with TBB or John80 it's enlightening to get a different opinion and see what the bigger picture is with Brexit. Obviously, for us to move forward Brexiteers need to be happy with the deal or otherwise the goalposts are going to shift again.rjsterry said:I doubt many would know the difference.
My only hope with Brexit is that the government of the day are now held accountable. I think John80 alluded to this in previous posts. If they can't blame Europe for everything going forward then that is one highlight for me. I fear that they will still try to blame Europe though.
Whilst racists would have been pro-Brexit the whole foreign thing is surely xenophobia?0 -
skyblueamateur said:
I'm genuinely interested. Although I don't particularly agree with TBB or John80 it's enlightening to get a different opinion and see what the bigger picture is with Brexit. Obviously, for us to move forward Brexiteers need to be happy with the deal or otherwise the goalposts are going to shift again.rjsterry said:I doubt many would know the difference.
My only hope with Brexit is that the government of the day are now held accountable. I think John80 alluded to this in previous posts. If they can't blame Europe for everything going forward then that is one highlight for me. I fear that they will still try to blame Europe though.
TBB is a Remainer pretending to be a Leaver
SteveO is a Leaver pretending (badly) to be a Remainer
John80 is not interested in the economic outcome as for him it is all about sovereignty.
And if you want to understand Brexiteers you have to stop thinking in terms of economics. Nobody voted Leave to improve the economic well being of the country or themselves. No cost is too high to stop foreigners having a say in their lives, living here, working here or catching our fish.0 -
Pross said:
Trying to get into the head of a Brexiter. So far losing the right to tow a trailer or drive a 7.5t HGV without a test equates to losing the right to live in the country where your children live and no longer having the freedom to live and work in another country due to the UK choosing to leave the EU is the fault of the other country.
It's a strange place to be.
It is the total lack of sympathy or empathy that is most striking.1 -
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Bit of both... never heard anyone complaining about those pesky Scandi relocating in the UK, but you hear a lot against Romanians and Polish and I don't think it's just the sheer numbers. As an Italian (a fairly large community), I never had much grief, other than the usual xeno-jokes about pizzas and waving arms... but because I do fit the stereotype, I never really mind. Mafia jokes are usually ignored, as they say a lot about the sheer ignorance of the person involved, so best not to even engage.surrey_commuter said:
Whilst racists would have been pro-Brexit the whole foreign thing is surely xenophobia?
If it was pure xenophobia, then there wouldn't be hate targeted towards specific communities and not towards others... I am inclined to think it is racismleft the forum March 20230 -
I would say we've renegotiated a rather good dealsurrey_commuter said:
NO, NO, NO!!!!!coopster_the_1st said:
I called that we should have gone WTO terms on 1st December. This was because the damage of the uncertainty was creating to business.skyblueamateur said:Are the Leave side on here happy with the final outcome or would they have preferred to leave on WTO terms?
However, with hindsight and now knowing how the negotiations were actually moving forward towards a sensible outcome I would not have made that call with that great knowledge.
As to the outcome, yes I am overall happy as I always wanted an FTA. I can accept the rest of the agreement and see how it works out over the next few years. If there is anything we don't like as a country, Parliament and the electorate through elections, can update it as needed.
You did not always want an FTA
You are the person who voted Leave to strengthen Cameron’s hand for a renegotiation around the edges.
That is a large amount of egg to have on your face and probably explains the bitterness that you drag behind you.
I changed my position to a harder leave when patronising remoaners turned up!
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You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.1
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We all know you know diddly squat about economics. You were exposed years ago!surrey_commuter said:skyblueamateur said:
I'm genuinely interested. Although I don't particularly agree with TBB or John80 it's enlightening to get a different opinion and see what the bigger picture is with Brexit. Obviously, for us to move forward Brexiteers need to be happy with the deal or otherwise the goalposts are going to shift again.rjsterry said:I doubt many would know the difference.
My only hope with Brexit is that the government of the day are now held accountable. I think John80 alluded to this in previous posts. If they can't blame Europe for everything going forward then that is one highlight for me. I fear that they will still try to blame Europe though.
TBB is a Remainer pretending to be a Leaver
SteveO is a Leaver pretending (badly) to be a Remainer
John80 is not interested in the economic outcome as for him it is all about sovereignty.
And if you want to understand Brexiteers you have to stop thinking in terms of economics. Nobody voted Leave to improve the economic well being of the country or themselves. No cost is too high to stop foreigners having a say in their lives, living here, working here or catching our fish.
As soon as you are called out on it you deflect and avoid
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john80 said:
You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.
Have you experienced racism? I have, from a large spectrum of people.john80 said:You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.
Have you ever been amongst a group of people and every single one of them expressed racists views in the time you were with them?
I can honestly believe that it's possible for 52% of people in this country hold some racist or discriminatory views or prejudices. Or least are gullible enough to believe that the UKs ills were because of all the foreigners being here.
Its not so long ago that racism was prime-time TV viewing.0 -
It is a generalisation, but it isn't entirely without basis. Any political movement based on nationalism above all else inevitably needs a "them" or there is no reason for nationalism in the first place. In the US it is anyone from Mexico or who might possibly be from Mexico, and anyone from anywhere else that looks foreign. In Scotland it is the English. In England it is the "European" - a conveniently adaptable term.john80 said:You keep pulling the racism card and it amuses me as you either think that you live in a country where 52% of the electorate are racists or you know you are talking bollocks but continue to do so for a laugh. It has no more basis in fact than stating group X are a load of kiddy fiddler's. It demeans your argument and is embarrassing. The funniest thing is you would be first to round on those with ridiculous generalisations.
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