BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Pross said:
His intention was to get out of the country. That seems to be crux of his post, he can no longer freely work in the country of his choice.john80 said:
Was it a promising career. What metric was it promising if some fairly minor change scuppered it. You might want to get out of a country where 52% are racists.ddraver said:And again, my promising career and life in my dream location has ended because of racists and for zero benefit to the country...but I had some.time to prepare so it's ok...
Erm....F*ck off?!!
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
You’ve been through the settled status application process then?john80 said:
In 1998 my right to drive a 7.5tonne hgv or tow a trailer was taken away by the EU standardisation of driving tests as prior to this year I could not sit the test. Cost me quite a bit of money to get these benefits that were given to everyone else prior. Freedom of movement was a unnecessary freedom that has not enhanced the EU cause and is one of the main reasons the UK is where it is. A simple working visa system would have allowed people to work across borders and those that want to live abroad could emigrate accordingly.rick_chasey said:
It all seems fairly arbitrary.kingstonian said:joenobody said:
Splitting up of families is happening though, and it seems it's not "a bit of paperwork" to sort it. A colleague of mine, sounds very English but is a Dutch citizen, has had his application to remain rejected. I don't know the reasons given, but he was led to believe it was just a formality. So from Jan 1st he's expected to "return home", leaving his son here with his ex-wife.john80 said:
When they start putting foreign nationals in the gullag and forcefully splitting up families I will start to take you seriously. If it is a bit of paperwork then no I don't have a lot of sympathy.
Obviously it's not dragging them apart with physical force, but I'd say that's in the "forcefully splitting up families" category.
That sounds strange. My wife is Dutch, has lived in the UK for 28 years, and went through the process a few months ago. It was really quite straightforward and in fact a fair bit easier than the pain we’re currently going through to get Dutch passports for our 2 sons. I know that quite a few people don’t immediately have their right to remain granted and have to submit additional documents etc, but I’d be really surprised if your colleague has point blank had it rejected.
I know one couple (out of an awful lot) who had this and it makes no sense why they would have been rejected.
But it’s a small proportion.
The point is more it has been taken away. I don’t know why you find that difficult to understand john or BB.
As I’ve said before BB your experience of a non-EU system shouldn’t want you to bring everyone else down to a worse level.
For those that are interested in the process instead of mate of a mate stories the process is here.
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/eligibility
It is not onerous and caters for those living in the UK for over and under 5 years.0 -
As a UK passport holder I don't. Maybe you would like to share why you think the process is fundamentally unfair. It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction. If your sole argument is that it is different to what was there before then this was set in stone back in 2016 through a democratic process. Those pesky 52% racists always messing things up as this form would have you believe.pinkbikini said:
You’ve been through the settled status application process then?john80 said:
In 1998 my right to drive a 7.5tonne hgv or tow a trailer was taken away by the EU standardisation of driving tests as prior to this year I could not sit the test. Cost me quite a bit of money to get these benefits that were given to everyone else prior. Freedom of movement was a unnecessary freedom that has not enhanced the EU cause and is one of the main reasons the UK is where it is. A simple working visa system would have allowed people to work across borders and those that want to live abroad could emigrate accordingly.rick_chasey said:
It all seems fairly arbitrary.kingstonian said:joenobody said:
Splitting up of families is happening though, and it seems it's not "a bit of paperwork" to sort it. A colleague of mine, sounds very English but is a Dutch citizen, has had his application to remain rejected. I don't know the reasons given, but he was led to believe it was just a formality. So from Jan 1st he's expected to "return home", leaving his son here with his ex-wife.john80 said:
When they start putting foreign nationals in the gullag and forcefully splitting up families I will start to take you seriously. If it is a bit of paperwork then no I don't have a lot of sympathy.
Obviously it's not dragging them apart with physical force, but I'd say that's in the "forcefully splitting up families" category.
That sounds strange. My wife is Dutch, has lived in the UK for 28 years, and went through the process a few months ago. It was really quite straightforward and in fact a fair bit easier than the pain we’re currently going through to get Dutch passports for our 2 sons. I know that quite a few people don’t immediately have their right to remain granted and have to submit additional documents etc, but I’d be really surprised if your colleague has point blank had it rejected.
I know one couple (out of an awful lot) who had this and it makes no sense why they would have been rejected.
But it’s a small proportion.
The point is more it has been taken away. I don’t know why you find that difficult to understand john or BB.
As I’ve said before BB your experience of a non-EU system shouldn’t want you to bring everyone else down to a worse level.
For those that are interested in the process instead of mate of a mate stories the process is here.
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/eligibility
It is not onerous and caters for those living in the UK for over and under 5 years.0 -
What and his dream career was not attractive to the country of his choice. Is he more pissed at brexiteers or the population of his choice who don't think his skills are essential. How can this be. They must be racists.ddraver said:Pross said:
His intention was to get out of the country. That seems to be crux of his post, he can no longer freely work in the country of his choice.john80 said:
Was it a promising career. What metric was it promising if some fairly minor change scuppered it. You might want to get out of a country where 52% are racists.ddraver said:And again, my promising career and life in my dream location has ended because of racists and for zero benefit to the country...but I had some.time to prepare so it's ok...
Erm....F*ck off?!!0 -
My point is that you’re rejecting ‘friend of a...’ feedback but you’ve even less experience. What’s your opinion worth then?john80 said:
As a UK passport holder I don't. Maybe you would like to share why you think the process is fundamentally unfair. It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction. If your sole argument is that it is different to what was there before then this was set in stone back in 2016 through a democratic process. Those pesky 52% racists always messing things up as this form would have you believe.pinkbikini said:
You’ve been through the settled status application process then?john80 said:
In 1998 my right to drive a 7.5tonne hgv or tow a trailer was taken away by the EU standardisation of driving tests as prior to this year I could not sit the test. Cost me quite a bit of money to get these benefits that were given to everyone else prior. Freedom of movement was a unnecessary freedom that has not enhanced the EU cause and is one of the main reasons the UK is where it is. A simple working visa system would have allowed people to work across borders and those that want to live abroad could emigrate accordingly.rick_chasey said:
It all seems fairly arbitrary.kingstonian said:joenobody said:
Splitting up of families is happening though, and it seems it's not "a bit of paperwork" to sort it. A colleague of mine, sounds very English but is a Dutch citizen, has had his application to remain rejected. I don't know the reasons given, but he was led to believe it was just a formality. So from Jan 1st he's expected to "return home", leaving his son here with his ex-wife.john80 said:
When they start putting foreign nationals in the gullag and forcefully splitting up families I will start to take you seriously. If it is a bit of paperwork then no I don't have a lot of sympathy.
Obviously it's not dragging them apart with physical force, but I'd say that's in the "forcefully splitting up families" category.
That sounds strange. My wife is Dutch, has lived in the UK for 28 years, and went through the process a few months ago. It was really quite straightforward and in fact a fair bit easier than the pain we’re currently going through to get Dutch passports for our 2 sons. I know that quite a few people don’t immediately have their right to remain granted and have to submit additional documents etc, but I’d be really surprised if your colleague has point blank had it rejected.
I know one couple (out of an awful lot) who had this and it makes no sense why they would have been rejected.
But it’s a small proportion.
The point is more it has been taken away. I don’t know why you find that difficult to understand john or BB.
As I’ve said before BB your experience of a non-EU system shouldn’t want you to bring everyone else down to a worse level.
For those that are interested in the process instead of mate of a mate stories the process is here.
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/eligibility
It is not onerous and caters for those living in the UK for over and under 5 years.0 -
And just to add:
“It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction”
That’s not backed up when you look at status refusals. Admittedly we’re talking small percentages of the overall here, but 3mins googling gives you an answer, not an assumption!0 -
Remember the trips down to london or to Harwich for a passport well.pinkbikini said:
Not such a problem if you’re London-based I suppose. My wife spent a lot of time at the Dutch embassy during her UK citizenship application, laughing with them at the levels of bureaucracy exhibited by the Home Office. I’d always thought the Dutch love of paperwork was incredible, and was amazed that in the UK we could outdo them. World-leaders really.kingstonian said:pinkbikini said:So some years ago my wife (Dutch citizen) applied for UK nationality (predicting the whole Brexshit nonsense). I was amazed that some of the validation criteria involved having private health insurance if you’ve not worked. To have used the NHS counted towards invalidating the application. Luckily she’d worked and gone through PAYE/NI so was covered. But had she not worked in the UK it would have been very different. And here’s the main point - there was no info available anywhere referencing this criteria.
I can understand why people get caught out. I can’t understand the sanctimonious “oh it’s so easy” people who have an opinion but no experience.
I’d have hoped getting Dutch passports for UK-born kids was relatively easy if they were born to a Dutch citizen. We’re going to be going through that process soon, seeing if we can get them dual nationality. I’d never provide on opinion on it without having tried though.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, we’re going through the Dutch passport application for our kids. Unfortunately it all has to be done in person at the Dutch embassy in London rather than online or through the post.
A particular preoccupation for providing vast amounts of evidence to show you live where you live.0 -
So after all the brinkmanship over fishing, the leaders of the fishing industry in the UK have accused Boris of "caving in" and not getting what he promised.
What did we get in return?0 -
A free trade agreement.elbowloh said:So after all the brinkmanship over fishing, the leaders of the fishing industry in the UK have accused Boris of "caving in" and not getting what he promised.
What did we get in return?0 -
The point at which someone needs to engage an immigration lawyer, they do get my sympathy.pinkbikini said:And just to add:
“It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction”
That’s not backed up when you look at status refusals. Admittedly we’re talking small percentages of the overall here, but 3mins googling gives you an answer, not an assumption!0 -
Just not sure the one we and the fishing industry was promised.TheBigBean said:
A free trade agreement.elbowloh said:So after all the brinkmanship over fishing, the leaders of the fishing industry in the UK have accused Boris of "caving in" and not getting what he promised.
What did we get in return?0 -
Surely the good thing that both sides can agree on is that at least we can now move forwards after 4.5 years stuck on one issue.0
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Sure.morstar said:Surely the good thing that both sides can agree on is that at least we can now move forwards after 4.5 years stuck on one issue.
But if you get a few fingers or toes amputated, it might mean you can't do the things you did before or not I'm the same way, and for damn sure the subject is going to come up in conversation.0 -
Honestly if you think a hardcore of Eurosceptics didn’t let this go in 40 years you think the process of Brexit hasn’t created a whole new load of Europhiles who won’t let this go?
For some people it’s unforgivable and an affront to their way of life.
When I get some free time again when I am off toddler dad duties I will inevitably be sucked into helping that effort. Too awful not to.0 -
If there is a world of opportunities out there, how come I have yet to see a single report into how better off we will be once we're out of the Union?
My impression is that there aren't many opportunities that we didn't have already. Yes, we can in principle have a trade agreement with the US and maybe even China, but are they really going to bring any prosperity?
It's not that free trade per se is a good thing... you also need something to actually trade and if we aren't already trading it, then it's probably because there is no demand for it...
We're not in the EU, we can rack up as much debt as we like... but we don't want to... ultimately, we will follow pretty similar rules but maybe allow bananas of any shape to enter the market... is this what ultimately is all about? Having the freedom to trade in ounces and pounds and not having anyone supervising our finances?
It's not that when my parents stopped having a say on my finances I suddenly became wealthy...left the forum March 20230 -
I agree completely this won't just stop being discussed (as evidenced here) but enacting the policy no longer consumes the day to day job of governance.
It is no longer front and centre of our politics, it is just a very prominent back story to be blamed or claimed for the next x years depending on your position.
Neither Cons or Labour are going to contest the next election on a rejoin the Eu platform.
Will we ever get the option to rejoin? Maybe, but, whilst I think a second referendum on the deal would have been justifiable, I personally wouldn't now support another Eu referendum for a bare minimum of a decade.0 -
The fact is, we have brexited. Good or bad economically, we must live with it. Continually opening the wound whilst this is so fresh in peoples minds is only going to increase division and make things worse.
We aren't rejoining in any hurry as the Eu would be insane to take us back in the next few years as we're clearly very divided.
Rejoining would be a very long game indeed and who knows what the world will look like then.
Probably far too many Chinese interests and leverage in UK by then to let us rejoin.
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The deal guarantees the same level of workers rights and environmental protection as if we'd stayed in, so that's good.0
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ugo.santalucia said:
If there is a world of opportunities out there, how come I have yet to see a single report into how better off we will be once we're out of the Union?
My impression is that there aren't many opportunities that we didn't have already. Yes, we can in principle have a trade agreement with the US and maybe even China, but are they really going to bring any prosperity?
It's not that free trade per se is a good thing... you also need something to actually trade and if we aren't already trading it, then it's probably because there is no demand for it...
We're not in the EU, we can rack up as much debt as we like... but we don't want to... ultimately, we will follow pretty similar rules but maybe allow bananas of any shape to enter the market... is this what ultimately is all about? Having the freedom to trade in ounces and pounds and not having anyone supervising our finances?
It's not that when my parents stopped having a say on my finances I suddenly became wealthy...
I'm amused by some of the triumphalism of The Telegraph, especially what Charles Moore calls the 'logic of Brexit' whilst completely sidestepping any logic at all and appealing to emotion instead.
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Sure.
Now I have children my horizon is beyond 10 years tbh.
The thing is the relationship with the EU will be constantly reassessed, renegotiated etc.
There is also the wider strategic question of how does the U.K. place itself in the world, when the strategy for the last half century has been fundamentally based on EU membership.
Being a medium power on your own is a very different geopolitical system and I think currently, the government and the civil service haven’t got their head around the future. If they have they certainly haven’t articulated it.
In the shorter term there is challenge that China is not the ally the U.K. thought it was 8 years ago and the US is moving in a more pro-EU phase, so where does that leave the U.K.?
Meanwhile you’ve got the devolution problems which are absolutely coming down the road and will be very distracting politically when they do.
This all with a backdrop of self inflicted economic drag.
The easy bit is over - this stuff is the hard stuff.0 -
Poll on the BBC says over 40% of responders want to rejoin the EU.morstar said:I agree completely this won't just stop being discussed (as evidenced here) but enacting the policy no longer consumes the day to day job of governance.
It is no longer front and centre of our politics, it is just a very prominent back story to be blamed or claimed for the next x years depending on your position.
Neither Cons or Labour are going to contest the next election on a rejoin the Eu platform.
Will we ever get the option to rejoin? Maybe, but, whilst I think a second referendum on the deal would have been justifiable, I personally wouldn't now support another Eu referendum for a bare minimum of a decade.
Edit: i originally said 49%, but can't find the poll now. Definitely over 40%0 -
Given this is the internet and you don't know if any of the claims are true I would refer you back to the government policy and ask you what is wrong with the policy. Do you disagree that those with serious criminal convictions should be prevented from remaining? What other parts of the policy are wrong in your view.pinkbikini said:
My point is that you’re rejecting ‘friend of a...’ feedback but you’ve even less experience. What’s your opinion worth then?john80 said:
As a UK passport holder I don't. Maybe you would like to share why you think the process is fundamentally unfair. It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction. If your sole argument is that it is different to what was there before then this was set in stone back in 2016 through a democratic process. Those pesky 52% racists always messing things up as this form would have you believe.pinkbikini said:
You’ve been through the settled status application process then?john80 said:
In 1998 my right to drive a 7.5tonne hgv or tow a trailer was taken away by the EU standardisation of driving tests as prior to this year I could not sit the test. Cost me quite a bit of money to get these benefits that were given to everyone else prior. Freedom of movement was a unnecessary freedom that has not enhanced the EU cause and is one of the main reasons the UK is where it is. A simple working visa system would have allowed people to work across borders and those that want to live abroad could emigrate accordingly.rick_chasey said:
It all seems fairly arbitrary.kingstonian said:joenobody said:
Splitting up of families is happening though, and it seems it's not "a bit of paperwork" to sort it. A colleague of mine, sounds very English but is a Dutch citizen, has had his application to remain rejected. I don't know the reasons given, but he was led to believe it was just a formality. So from Jan 1st he's expected to "return home", leaving his son here with his ex-wife.john80 said:
When they start putting foreign nationals in the gullag and forcefully splitting up families I will start to take you seriously. If it is a bit of paperwork then no I don't have a lot of sympathy.
Obviously it's not dragging them apart with physical force, but I'd say that's in the "forcefully splitting up families" category.
That sounds strange. My wife is Dutch, has lived in the UK for 28 years, and went through the process a few months ago. It was really quite straightforward and in fact a fair bit easier than the pain we’re currently going through to get Dutch passports for our 2 sons. I know that quite a few people don’t immediately have their right to remain granted and have to submit additional documents etc, but I’d be really surprised if your colleague has point blank had it rejected.
I know one couple (out of an awful lot) who had this and it makes no sense why they would have been rejected.
But it’s a small proportion.
The point is more it has been taken away. I don’t know why you find that difficult to understand john or BB.
As I’ve said before BB your experience of a non-EU system shouldn’t want you to bring everyone else down to a worse level.
For those that are interested in the process instead of mate of a mate stories the process is here.
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/eligibility
It is not onerous and caters for those living in the UK for over and under 5 years.0 -
Flexibility on rules of origin for electric cars. Now so long as BoJo makes a good decision on choosing the tech that will dominate the industry we can march confidently into the sunlit uplands.TheBigBean said:
A free trade agreement.elbowloh said:So after all the brinkmanship over fishing, the leaders of the fishing industry in the UK have accused Boris of "caving in" and not getting what he promised.
What did we get in return?
Worse case scenario he has bought the UK car industry 5 years. May not seem like much but is worth multiples of the fish and gives us some “hope for the best” space.
Does of course make cars first in line for tariffs if there is a dispute and just the ever present threat could crush investment.0 -
I read the poll a couple of days back. Just read lots of splits similar to what you’d expect. Some shifts but nothing conclusive.elbowloh said:
Poll on the BBC says over 40% of responders want to rejoin the EU.morstar said:I agree completely this won't just stop being discussed (as evidenced here) but enacting the policy no longer consumes the day to day job of governance.
It is no longer front and centre of our politics, it is just a very prominent back story to be blamed or claimed for the next x years depending on your position.
Neither Cons or Labour are going to contest the next election on a rejoin the Eu platform.
Will we ever get the option to rejoin? Maybe, but, whilst I think a second referendum on the deal would have been justifiable, I personally wouldn't now support another Eu referendum for a bare minimum of a decade.
Edit: i originally said 49%, but can't find the poll now. Definitely over 40%
Would rejoin edge a referendum tomorrow. Quite possibly. Does anything suggest it would be convincingly and unequivocal for rejoin?
No.
Now let’s suppose, we enacted a rejoin policy on a tight mandate. What do you think happens a few short years later.
We need to find our new place in the world and make the most of it. If we ultimately want to rejoin after at least a couple of full parliamentary cycles, maybe we should. Right now, we need to focus on getting though Covid and establishing our new economy outside the Eu.1 -
One for @surrey_commuter.
The agreement sets up 21 new committees to deal with various sectors. Guess which sector doesn't get a committee.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
When you are googling bring us up a full list of the criteria the government are using. If the government is acting outside this then yes I will back those wronged. However in my experience those getting decisions against them rarely tell the full story on the internet if it is not beneficial to their case.pinkbikini said:And just to add:
“It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction”
That’s not backed up when you look at status refusals. Admittedly we’re talking small percentages of the overall here, but 3mins googling gives you an answer, not an assumption!0 -
1600 pages on and you still think brexit was a purely GDP based decision.ugo.santalucia said:If there is a world of opportunities out there, how come I have yet to see a single report into how better off we will be once we're out of the Union?
My impression is that there aren't many opportunities that we didn't have already. Yes, we can in principle have a trade agreement with the US and maybe even China, but are they really going to bring any prosperity?
It's not that free trade per se is a good thing... you also need something to actually trade and if we aren't already trading it, then it's probably because there is no demand for it...
We're not in the EU, we can rack up as much debt as we like... but we don't want to... ultimately, we will follow pretty similar rules but maybe allow bananas of any shape to enter the market... is this what ultimately is all about? Having the freedom to trade in ounces and pounds and not having anyone supervising our finances?
It's not that when my parents stopped having a say on my finances I suddenly became wealthy...0 -
Brexit was never about the economy from the leave side. It was all about blue passports and getting the ability to screw things up all by ourselves. #nobodytoblamenowThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Your link doesn't seem to actually list the criteria you need to fulfill, or a full list of things that would mean you weren't eligible. As you seem to admit above.john80 said:
When you are googling bring us up a full list of the criteria the government are using. If the government is acting outside this then yes I will back those wronged. However in my experience those getting decisions against them rarely tell the full story on the internet if it is not beneficial to their case.pinkbikini said:And just to add:
“It would seem to me that the main criteria for rejection would be a significant criminal conviction”
That’s not backed up when you look at status refusals. Admittedly we’re talking small percentages of the overall here, but 3mins googling gives you an answer, not an assumption!
Wtf are you guys arguing about.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0
