BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Sorry I don’t follow.spatt77 said:
We certainly could have mutual recognition and non regression clauses but what the EU are asking , they haven't asked of any other country. but its prudent to understand, that trade rules between parties are constantly being negotiated, its a never ending process.rick_chasey said:
Right.spatt77 said:Hi, well the EU is asking us to sign up to the "level playing field" this in the future means environmental, state aid and employment rights will be made by them with us, understandably being outside the EU having no say on them. They haven't asked that in other FTA`s they have agreed with other countries.
It’s the “if you want to trade in our union you need to abide by our rules” argument, right?
I mean, the EU could meet the U.K. half way with the regs like they have with Canada, as you mention.
But in the instances you describe, those countries are agreeing to not move on the regulations covered by the agreement.
A hypothetical example, if the agreement is to not, say, put clenbuterol in beef, then neither side will, right? If one side decides to start putting clenbuterol in their beef, the agreement is broken.
But what the U.K. is asking for is an agreement for free trade on *everything* (within obvious reason) right?
But both sides want to change regs on some things from time to time, and they don't want to renegotiate every single time they do it.
So how do you do that?
The problem is when the EU say changes the regs on something post deal (let’s say the regs on certain chemicals in paint).
What happens then? If it’s covered by the trade deal then what is the U.K. supposed to do?
Or are you suggesting it is locked in perpetuity?
You could turn it around and ask what happens if the U.K. does but that’s where we get to the scale problem. EU is just a lot bigger and represents more people and more countries.0 -
I was explaining why they are rejecting our position.spatt77 said:One last thing Surrey Commuter, The EU think we are still trying to cherry pick but want to keep exactly the same fishing rights as before and keep security at the same levels as before! cherry picking on both sides me thinks!
If we were interested we could use the areas they feel strongly about to strengthen our hand.
When do you think the penny dropped that we were not going to have the same or better terms than before?0 -
Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.0
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the whole fishing debate totally boggles my mind, it is a terribly weak hand that the EU is making look like our joker yet we are refusng to play it.florerider said:Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.
as you say come the end of the game the card will be worthless and the fishing industry mothballed. And for good measure Calais will be blockaded.
Beef farmers will never get sold out as the few hundred exporters control the NFU who control the Govt.0 -
Have you read anything about the French fishing lobby?surrey_commuter said:
the whole fishing debate totally boggles my mind, it is a terribly weak hand that the EU is making look like our joker yet we are refusng to play it.florerider said:Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.
as you say come the end of the game the card will be worthless and the fishing industry mothballed. And for good measure Calais will be blockaded.
Beef farmers will never get sold out as the few hundred exporters control the NFU who control the Govt.
They're, err, a bit full on.0 -
you seem to be disagreeing with me whilst agreeing with merick_chasey said:
Have you read anything about the French fishing lobby?surrey_commuter said:
the whole fishing debate totally boggles my mind, it is a terribly weak hand that the EU is making look like our joker yet we are refusng to play it.florerider said:Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.
as you say come the end of the game the card will be worthless and the fishing industry mothballed. And for good measure Calais will be blockaded.
Beef farmers will never get sold out as the few hundred exporters control the NFU who control the Govt.
They're, err, a bit full on.0 -
Neither I just read a bit about the French lobby and it now makes more sense why they ended up with a decent deal from the original EU plan. They are *nuts*surrey_commuter said:
you seem to be disagreeing with me whilst agreeing with merick_chasey said:
Have you read anything about the French fishing lobby?surrey_commuter said:
the whole fishing debate totally boggles my mind, it is a terribly weak hand that the EU is making look like our joker yet we are refusng to play it.florerider said:Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.
as you say come the end of the game the card will be worthless and the fishing industry mothballed. And for good measure Calais will be blockaded.
Beef farmers will never get sold out as the few hundred exporters control the NFU who control the Govt.
They're, err, a bit full on.0 -
Well we could go round in circles about this, but one things for sure, NOBODY! knows how this is gonna turn out, after Brexit , some things WILL be worse than now, some things WILL be better than now , for some Brexit will be a disaster, for others a great opportunity, we`re gonna have to wait a fair few years before we can look back and evaluate and come to a sensible conclusion on it. Brexiteers have trouble understanding why Remainers like to be in a big grouping governed by a huge institution, Remainers have trouble understanding that for leavers it isn't all about money, if Im poorer as a result of Brexit then so be it........0
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Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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Why do you hate this country so much?coopster_the_1st said:
Sovereignty, Control of immigrationbompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Now f*ck off loser0 -
I can think of 350 million reasons why Leavers may think it is about the money, sovereignty feels like post-rationalisation.spatt77 said:Well we could go round in circles about this, but one things for sure, NOBODY! knows how this is gonna turn out, after Brexit , some things WILL be worse than now, some things WILL be better than now , for some Brexit will be a disaster, for others a great opportunity, we`re gonna have to wait a fair few years before we can look back and evaluate and come to a sensible conclusion on it. Brexiteers have trouble understanding why Remainers like to be in a big grouping governed by a huge institution, Remainers have trouble understanding that for leavers it isn't all about money, if Im poorer as a result of Brexit then so be it........
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as I say fishing is our Jokerrick_chasey said:
Neither I just read a bit about the French lobby and it now makes more sense why they ended up with a decent deal from the original EU plan. They are *nuts*surrey_commuter said:
you seem to be disagreeing with me whilst agreeing with merick_chasey said:
Have you read anything about the French fishing lobby?surrey_commuter said:
the whole fishing debate totally boggles my mind, it is a terribly weak hand that the EU is making look like our joker yet we are refusng to play it.florerider said:Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.
as you say come the end of the game the card will be worthless and the fishing industry mothballed. And for good measure Calais will be blockaded.
Beef farmers will never get sold out as the few hundred exporters control the NFU who control the Govt.
They're, err, a bit full on.0 -
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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F*ck off loserkingstongraham said:
Why do you hate this country so much?coopster_the_1st said:
Sovereignty, Control of immigrationbompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Now f*ck off loser-4 -
The single market recognises equivalence of DIN, EN, ISO and BS, but in a lot of cases they are not the same. However, any changes go via EN and so they converge over time, ergo equivilance is not a problem until outside the single market. Letting them diverge is not a problem, but it means UK manufactured stuff will need type approval.
From a buyers perspective I used to stipify C€, as I was covered that way. With no BS equivilant I know what I would do for European projects, but not for UK ones. Insurers will have the same problem. International and multinationals will probably just implement internal standards requiring C€ for all projects whether mainland or UK anyway.0 -
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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So latest reports are that France, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Denmark, Belgium, Germany and Sweden are not giving Barnier any rope to budge on their hard stance on fishing.surrey_commuter said:
as I say fishing is our Jokerrick_chasey said:
Neither I just read a bit about the French lobby and it now makes more sense why they ended up with a decent deal from the original EU plan. They are *nuts*surrey_commuter said:
you seem to be disagreeing with me whilst agreeing with merick_chasey said:
Have you read anything about the French fishing lobby?surrey_commuter said:
the whole fishing debate totally boggles my mind, it is a terribly weak hand that the EU is making look like our joker yet we are refusng to play it.florerider said:Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.
as you say come the end of the game the card will be worthless and the fishing industry mothballed. And for good measure Calais will be blockaded.
Beef farmers will never get sold out as the few hundred exporters control the NFU who control the Govt.
They're, err, a bit full on.
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Started on the sauce early today Coop?coopster_the_1st said:
F*ck off loserkingstongraham said:
Why do you hate this country so much?coopster_the_1st said:
Sovereignty, Control of immigrationbompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Now f*ck off loser- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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Exactly- we trade fish for cars or FSrick_chasey said:
So latest reports are that France, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Denmark, Belgium, Germany and Sweden are not giving Barnier any rope to budge on their hard stance on fishing.surrey_commuter said:
as I say fishing is our Jokerrick_chasey said:
Neither I just read a bit about the French lobby and it now makes more sense why they ended up with a decent deal from the original EU plan. They are *nuts*surrey_commuter said:
you seem to be disagreeing with me whilst agreeing with merick_chasey said:
Have you read anything about the French fishing lobby?surrey_commuter said:
the whole fishing debate totally boggles my mind, it is a terribly weak hand that the EU is making look like our joker yet we are refusng to play it.florerider said:Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.
as you say come the end of the game the card will be worthless and the fishing industry mothballed. And for good measure Calais will be blockaded.
Beef farmers will never get sold out as the few hundred exporters control the NFU who control the Govt.
They're, err, a bit full on.0 -
2020 is working out well on that front so far.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Agree?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
rick_chasey said:
So latest reports are that France, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Denmark, Belgium, Germany and Sweden are not giving Barnier any rope to budge on their hard stance on fishing.surrey_commuter said:
as I say fishing is our Jokerrick_chasey said:
Neither I just read a bit about the French lobby and it now makes more sense why they ended up with a decent deal from the original EU plan. They are *nuts*surrey_commuter said:
you seem to be disagreeing with me whilst agreeing with merick_chasey said:
Have you read anything about the French fishing lobby?surrey_commuter said:
the whole fishing debate totally boggles my mind, it is a terribly weak hand that the EU is making look like our joker yet we are refusng to play it.florerider said:Fishing, isn't he troubling part losing market access? Still, at least we get control in putting fishing out of business, so that's ok then. Bit like lamb and beef.
as you say come the end of the game the card will be worthless and the fishing industry mothballed. And for good measure Calais will be blockaded.
Beef farmers will never get sold out as the few hundred exporters control the NFU who control the Govt.
They're, err, a bit full on.
Barnier quipped the other day that the Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration were available in multiple languages including English*. Presumably, it is also available in French, Dutch etc.
*Barnier was quite taken aback after being upstaged by Frost's letter after the previous round, so he came prepared this time.
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spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
I can not see why you are linking direct democracy with Brexit
Borders I will give you
Payments to EU will be far outweighed by our additional costs so not a plus point
Assuming you believe there will be net trade benefit, what areas will drive this and over what time period?0 -
Except EU membership where they bottled it and held a referendum. Wouldn't even take control when they could.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
How do you feel about the West lothian question?0 -
It is as if you have a complete blindfold on when it comes to the EU and its elected employees and paid employees. I know which I have more control over and it is not the EU institutions. MEP's only get to vote on stuff that the council decrees that they can talk about FFS. It is a massive waste of money that spending billions on repairs to Westminster does not even touch.surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
How do you feel about the West lothian question?0 -
When you say direct democracy, you mean indirect democracy.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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bizarrely the post you are responding to does not mention the EU. You are assume that your hatred of the EU is mirrored by me loving the EU.john80 said:
It is as if you have a complete blindfold on when it comes to the EU and its elected employees and paid employees. I know which I have more control over and it is not the EU institutions. MEP's only get to vote on stuff that the council decrees that they can talk about FFS. It is a massive waste of money that spending billions on repairs to Westminster does not even touch.surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
How do you feel about the West lothian question?
I think that the UK does very well from membership of the EU, in particular the SM. There are many things that I am totally ambivalent about such as the Parliament and Council of Ministers and things that I really don't like such as CAP.
I think our political system is totally fvcked up and has resulted in us having a very low standard of politician, the thought that I should prefer them because they are British is a totally alien concept to me0 -
So we're leaving NATO as well, and the WTO, and FIFA, and...spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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if Trump get's re-elected then NATO and WTO could be leaving us. Would not be a huge surprise if we left EHCR to ride a populist wavebompington said:
So we're leaving NATO as well, and the WTO, and FIFA, and...spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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