BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy0 -
On the sovereignty question, i believe the people we elect should be solely responsible for the decisions that are made in that country. You say you only care about "competence" which is a fair point, but is the EU any more competent than the UK government no matter which party`s in charge? Brexit will be good for democracy, for years the UK government has blamed the EU for a host of things, sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly but if UK is totally sovereign blaming the EU goes out of the window. Ask yourself the question, If the EU started to do things you fundamentally disagree with, what mechanism is their to remove them from power?surrey_commuter said:
Don’t care about the distance or the nationality, all I care about is competence.spatt77 said:
Not necessarily, some people want to be born in this country for various reasons!rick_chasey said:
Because what nation you happen to be born in is total chance?spatt77 said:why would anyone place zero value on sovereignty?
So i take it you would rather be ruled by a even more remote body then i take it?surrey_commuter said:
it is a good question but one that I can not answer as conversely I have no idea why anybody places any value on it. I genuinely have no idea why anybody would rather be ruled by Westminster purely because they are British.spatt77 said:why would anyone place zero value on sovereignty?
Did you miss my question of why you place any value on sovereignty? I am genuinely interested as it is an alien concept to me.
If it helps I support England in any sport but have no interest in the other home nations.
If England was being invaded I certainly wouldn’t risk my life to defend it.0 -
I would tell you some interesting stories about my grandfather and his role in the Dutch resistance but as he’s original antifa it would only wind you up.coopster_the_1st said:
He will say the Germans. It's in his blood for him to roll over and be ruled by them without putting up a fight...spatt77 said:So tell me, who would you like to run the country then?
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We've always known that the EU has been protectionist.rick_chasey said:
I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think you have inadvertently criticised the ToriesStevo_666 said:
We've always known that the EU has been protectionist.rick_chasey said:
I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy
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rick_chasey said:
I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy
I think that is a big leap to “big business”
It shows a belief in big Govt’s ability control the economy.
I think there will be significant chunks of the Tory party who will already be planning on how to remove the cuckoo from their nest.0 -
Missing the point (as is the person who liked your postsurrey_commuter said:
I think you have inadvertently criticised the ToriesStevo_666 said:
We've always known that the EU has been protectionist.rick_chasey said:
I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy
). If Rick is to be believed, we are simply becoming like the EU. Which can't be bad for most Cake Stoppers? "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Sometimes I wish I could think so two dimensionally as you.Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point (as is the person who liked your postsurrey_commuter said:
I think you have inadvertently criticised the ToriesStevo_666 said:
We've always known that the EU has been protectionist.rick_chasey said:
I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy ). If Rick is to be believed, we are simply becoming like the EU. Which can't be bad for most Cake Stoppers?0 -
The EU has strict rules on state aid.
Rick’s post points out that Boris’s actions suggest his priority is for more state intervention.
You think this makes the UK more like the UK.
I don’t blindly like policies because the EU does it.0 -
Germany is trying to change this fwiw.surrey_commuter said:The EU has strict rules on state aid.
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No Brits at the table to stop it anymore...0 -
Who agreed to this deal?rick_chasey said:Last year the deal was “oven ready”
Now:
Stevo? do you know? Coopster?
You lads were quite pleased with this deal weren’t you?0 -
I know Rick, its things like Geo indicators that weren't of the utmost importance at the time as other things took priority. Can you tell me why the EU has no influence over the laws of Japan, South Korea or Canada in the FTA`s they agreed with them but insists on them with us?. Hope this clarifies your confusion on this matter
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Explain the logic of how the EU plans has influence over U.K. laws first.spatt77 said:I know Rick, its things like Geo indicators that weren't of the utmost importance at the time as other things took priority. Can you tell me why the EU has no influence over the laws of Japan, South Korea or Canada in the FTA`s they agreed with them but insists on them with us?. Hope this clarifies your confusion on this matter
As no one has actually explained it to me, so I’m a bit unsure about whether it is something to be concerned about or not.
Decent side step of the point mind - it’s more BoJo was lauded for making a “great deal” that was “oven ready” and elected on that basis.
Was he lying when he said it was? Or is he lying now? As the deal is the same.0 -
Hi, well the EU is asking us to sign up to the "level playing field" this in the future means environmental, state aid and employment rights will be made by them with us, understandably being outside the EU having no say on them. They haven't asked that in other FTA`s they have agreed with other countries.0
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Does that mean that we signed a withdrawal agreement that does not cover future trade agreements?spatt77 said:Hi, well the EU is asking us to sign up to the "level playing field" this in the future means environmental, state aid and employment rights will be made by them with us, understandably being outside the EU having no say on them. They haven't asked that in other FTA`s they have agreed with other countries.
Access to the Single Market is not dictated by law or by precedent it is entirely in the gift of the EU. All previous agreements tell you is what they might find acceptable in the future.
It is well known that the EU regrets the line by line deal it did with Switzerland.
The EU considers our approach as cherry picking bits from previous deals from all previous EU deals and are saying no, if we want them to change their mind we will have to demonstrate why it is in their best interests to do so not just whine that it is not fair.
Do you think that it helps that BoJo openly says that he is going to ignore the bits of the WA that he do not suit him?0 -
BJ will not sign up to things he doesn't like. The EU will not sign up to things they don't like. Ergo, no deal. Could have saved 4 years messing around.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Right.spatt77 said:Hi, well the EU is asking us to sign up to the "level playing field" this in the future means environmental, state aid and employment rights will be made by them with us, understandably being outside the EU having no say on them. They haven't asked that in other FTA`s they have agreed with other countries.
It’s the “if you want to trade in our union you need to abide by our rules” argument, right?
I mean, the EU could meet the U.K. half way with the regs like they have with Canada, as you mention.
But in the instances you describe, those countries are agreeing to not move on the regulations covered by the agreement.
A hypothetical example, if the agreement is to not, say, put clenbuterol in beef, then neither side will, right? If one side decides to start putting clenbuterol in their beef, the agreement is broken.
But what the U.K. is asking for is an agreement for free trade on *everything* (within obvious reason) right?
But both sides want to change regs on some things from time to time, and they don't want to renegotiate every single time they do it.
So how do you do that?
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Ah, the old Rick approach again. You win this weeks award for being condescending.rick_chasey said:
Sometimes I wish I could think so two dimensionally as you.Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point (as is the person who liked your postsurrey_commuter said:
I think you have inadvertently criticised the ToriesStevo_666 said:
We've always known that the EU has been protectionist.rick_chasey said:
I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy ). If Rick is to be believed, we are simply becoming like the EU. Which can't be bad for most Cake Stoppers?
I notice you didn't try to argue the point about protectionism."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Boris wants to fix fhe unfair WA? Whose WA was that then?0
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He signed up to a WA he does not like.pblakeney said:BJ will not sign up to things he doesn't like. The EU will not sign up to things they don't like. Ergo, no deal. Could have saved 4 years messing around.
He was not there 4 years ago.
If we could think forwards more than a few days we should have decided we did not want a comprehensive FTA which would have immeasurably strengthened our negotiating hand for the WA.0 -
You are missing his point hitch is why you think he is being condescending.Stevo_666 said:
Ah, the old Rick approach again. You win this weeks award for being condescending.rick_chasey said:
Sometimes I wish I could think so two dimensionally as you.Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point (as is the person who liked your postsurrey_commuter said:
I think you have inadvertently criticised the ToriesStevo_666 said:
We've always known that the EU has been protectionist.rick_chasey said:
I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy ). If Rick is to be believed, we are simply becoming like the EU. Which can't be bad for most Cake Stoppers?
I notice you didn't try to argue the point about protectionism.
You project your dogmatism onto other people. Just because people are pro- remain does not mean that they agree with every facet of the the EU.0 -
SC, above is my point, that the EU is protectionist. Don't think I missed my own point; however you have...Stevo_666 said:
We've always known that the EU has been protectionist.rick_chasey said:
I think this is a really important point.
We’re at the stage where the govt is showing it’s priorities and it is beginning to look like a Republican style “big-business-protectionist” policy"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
OK, I will rephrase.
Your point is irrelevant to the post it is responding to0 -
rick_chasey said:
Who agreed to this deal?rick_chasey said:Last year the deal was “oven ready”
Now:
Stevo? do you know? Coopster?
You lads were quite pleased with this deal weren’t you?0 -
It would suggest that he believed all that sh1te about Prosecco and German carmakers.rick_chasey said:rick_chasey said:
Who agreed to this deal?rick_chasey said:Last year the deal was “oven ready”
Now:
Stevo? do you know? Coopster?
You lads were quite pleased with this deal weren’t you?
0 -
surrey_commuter said:
It would suggest that he believed all that sh1te about Prosecco and German carmakers.rick_chasey said:rick_chasey said:
Who agreed to this deal?rick_chasey said:Last year the deal was “oven ready”
Now:
Stevo? do you know? Coopster?
You lads were quite pleased with this deal weren’t you?
He doesn't believe anything. Words are just random sounds with infinitely flexible meaning. It's all a game to him.0 -
The "WA" and the future political declaration are two separate documents, the "WA" is legally binding , the other isn't , just a statement of intent.surrey_commuter said:
Does that mean that we signed a withdrawal agreement that does not cover future trade agreements?spatt77 said:Hi, well the EU is asking us to sign up to the "level playing field" this in the future means environmental, state aid and employment rights will be made by them with us, understandably being outside the EU having no say on them. They haven't asked that in other FTA`s they have agreed with other countries.
Access to the Single Market is not dictated by law or by precedent it is entirely in the gift of the EU. All previous agreements tell you is what they might find acceptable in the future.
It is well known that the EU regrets the line by line deal it did with Switzerland.
The EU considers our approach as cherry picking bits from previous deals from all previous EU deals and are saying no, if we want them to change their mind we will have to demonstrate why it is in their best interests to do so not just whine that it is not fair.
Do you think that it helps that BoJo openly says that he is going to ignore the bits of the WA that he do not suit him?0 -
We certainly could have mutual recognition and non regression clauses but what the EU are asking , they haven't asked of any other country. but its prudent to understand, that trade rules between parties are constantly being negotiated, its a never ending process.rick_chasey said:
Right.spatt77 said:Hi, well the EU is asking us to sign up to the "level playing field" this in the future means environmental, state aid and employment rights will be made by them with us, understandably being outside the EU having no say on them. They haven't asked that in other FTA`s they have agreed with other countries.
It’s the “if you want to trade in our union you need to abide by our rules” argument, right?
I mean, the EU could meet the U.K. half way with the regs like they have with Canada, as you mention.
But in the instances you describe, those countries are agreeing to not move on the regulations covered by the agreement.
A hypothetical example, if the agreement is to not, say, put clenbuterol in beef, then neither side will, right? If one side decides to start putting clenbuterol in their beef, the agreement is broken.
But what the U.K. is asking for is an agreement for free trade on *everything* (within obvious reason) right?
But both sides want to change regs on some things from time to time, and they don't want to renegotiate every single time they do it.
So how do you do that?0 -
One last thing Surrey Commuter, The EU think we are still trying to cherry pick but want to keep exactly the same fishing rights as before and keep security at the same levels as before! cherry picking on both sides me thinks!0
