BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Why would you put trade in the hands of an unelected, unaccountable body in Switzerland? It's like Groundhog Day and Harold Wilson's gnomes of Zurich.0
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How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
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because they are at least elected on a proportional representation basis, reflecting the will of the peopleStevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
unlike the rigged uk system where a party with the minority of the popular vote gets a huge majority in parliament and we have a lying traitor as pm, and absolutely not reflecting the will of the peoplemy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Our electoral system produces safe seats which seem to attract no hopers.spatt77 said:
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Shaving 0.5% off the long term economic growth rate seems a very high price to pay for wanting to give Chris Grayling slightly more say in your life because he is British.
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.0 -
You're not paying £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers. We are saving £12bn a year and giving our parliamentary system more powerssurrey_commuter said:
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.
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You came up with a figure of £120bn it is costing us.coopster_the_1st said:
You're not paying £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers. We are saving £12bn a year and giving our parliamentary system more powerssurrey_commuter said:
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.
Plus it is £9bn before the cost of replicating the functions the EU did for us.0 -
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And having the status quo to have more of Starmer, Davey, Sturgeon in our life seems a an even higher price!surrey_commuter said:
Our electoral system produces safe seats which seem to attract no hopers.spatt77 said:
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Shaving 0.5% off the long term economic growth rate seems a very high price to pay for wanting to give Chris Grayling slightly more say in your life because he is British.
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.0 -
could you rewrite that as I really don't get your pointspatt77 said:
And having the status quo to have more of Starmer, Davey, Sturgeon in our life seems a an even higher price!surrey_commuter said:
Our electoral system produces safe seats which seem to attract no hopers.spatt77 said:
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Shaving 0.5% off the long term economic growth rate seems a very high price to pay for wanting to give Chris Grayling slightly more say in your life because he is British.
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.0 -
You're not expecting coherence or anything like that are you?surrey_commuter said:
could you rewrite that as I really don't get your pointspatt77 said:
And having the status quo to have more of Starmer, Davey, Sturgeon in our life seems a an even higher price!surrey_commuter said:
Our electoral system produces safe seats which seem to attract no hopers.spatt77 said:
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Shaving 0.5% off the long term economic growth rate seems a very high price to pay for wanting to give Chris Grayling slightly more say in your life because he is British.
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.0 -
to be honest fairly low as it effects a relatively small number of people, less people coming the other way will have a bigger negative impact on most people's lives.rick_chasey said:What value are you guys putting on the ability to live and work freely across the EU27?
Most people in this country can not remember a world pre-SM and so will only appreciate the benefits once we have left. That is benefits as consumers as well as sellers.0 -
I excluded C19 costs.surrey_commuter said:
You came up with a figure of £120bn it is costing us.coopster_the_1st said:
You're not paying £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers. We are saving £12bn a year and giving our parliamentary system more powerssurrey_commuter said:
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.
Plus it is £9bn before the cost of replicating the functions the EU did for us.
If we were still an EU member we would be on the hook for at least £120bn of additional borrowing(this is only going to go up).
The vote to leave is looking better value by the day
And your £9bn would be more like £14bn today as it costs the UK to be a success0 -
Bravo - back on form todaycoopster_the_1st said:
I excluded C19 costs.surrey_commuter said:
You came up with a figure of £120bn it is costing us.coopster_the_1st said:
You're not paying £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers. We are saving £12bn a year and giving our parliamentary system more powerssurrey_commuter said:
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.
Plus it is £9bn before the cost of replicating the functions the EU did for us.
If we were still an EU member we would be on the hook for at least £120bn of additional borrowing(this is only going to go up).
The vote to leave is looking better value by the day
And your £9bn would be more like £14bn today as it costs the UK to be a success0 -
You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !0
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Not much Rick, I have used this right a lot in the past but it didnt influence my decision in the referendum! My Remainer friends bleat on a lot about this but NONE of them have actually used the right they so badly want to keep! Go figure!rick_chasey said:What value are you guys putting on the ability to live and work freely across the EU27?
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I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.0 -
Cheers, means a lot.spatt77 said:If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
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We won't see the same integrity from remoaners though. Not that spatt will need to say he was wrong as his view is looking more correct by the day.kingstongraham said:
Cheers, means a lot.spatt77 said:If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Remoaners have done all they can to try and overturn the result of a democratic vote, and spent 4 years undermining the UK to try and achieve this aim.0 -
We all know it can take ten times as long as that of undermining the policy of the democratically elected government of the UK for it to come to fruition. So get used to it, snowflake.coopster_the_1st said:
We won't see the same integrity from remoaners though. Not that spatt will need to say he was wrong as his view is looking more correct by the day.kingstongraham said:
Cheers, means a lot.spatt77 said:If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Remoaners have done all they can to try and overturn the result of a democratic vote, and spent 4 years undermining the UK to try and achieve this aim.0 -
It is not theoretical, the UK economy has been slowing since Cameron promised a referendum. Euro area there to show it is not external factors.
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Is that the 4 years the Brexiteers proved unable to do Brexit as they promised?coopster_the_1st said:
We won't see the same integrity from remoaners though. Not that spatt will need to say he was wrong as his view is looking more correct by the day.kingstongraham said:
Cheers, means a lot.spatt77 said:If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Remoaners have done all they can to try and overturn the result of a democratic vote, and spent 4 years undermining the UK to try and achieve this aim.
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Well i have to say that remainers goading the public into voting in a large majority Tory government really was a massive win for them. The fact neither remain leaning MPs or the media seen this coming was quite amusing to me.florerider said:
Is that the 4 years the Brexiteers proved unable to do Brexit as they promised?coopster_the_1st said:
We won't see the same integrity from remoaners though. Not that spatt will need to say he was wrong as his view is looking more correct by the day.kingstongraham said:
Cheers, means a lot.spatt77 said:If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Remoaners have done all they can to try and overturn the result of a democratic vote, and spent 4 years undermining the UK to try and achieve this aim.1 -
As opposed to.....Corbyn?john80 said:
Well i have to say that remainers goading the public into voting in a large majority Tory government really was a massive win for them. The fact neither remain leaning MPs or the media seen this coming was quite amusing to me.florerider said:
Is that the 4 years the Brexiteers proved unable to do Brexit as they promised?coopster_the_1st said:
We won't see the same integrity from remoaners though. Not that spatt will need to say he was wrong as his view is looking more correct by the day.kingstongraham said:
Cheers, means a lot.spatt77 said:If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Remoaners have done all they can to try and overturn the result of a democratic vote, and spent 4 years undermining the UK to try and achieve this aim.0 -
So if I have the right numbers as we had a $2.8 trillion economy in 2018, say at 1.3 exchange rate, that 0.5% is over £200 million a week? Compares to a UK net contribution to the EU of £170 milion a week. NHS budget in 2019 was £307 million a week. VAT receipts ran at 2.5 bil a week. Income tax paid by the top 10% was 2 bil a week. Looking at those tax figures not sure in or out is the big financial issue stimulating or stullifying the economy.surrey_commuter said:
Our electoral system produces safe seats which seem to attract no hopers.spatt77 said:
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Shaving 0.5% off the long term economic growth rate seems a very high price to pay for wanting to give Chris Grayling slightly more say in your life because he is British.
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.0 -
florerider said:
So if I have the right numbers as we had a $2.8 trillion economy in 2018, say at 1.3 exchange rate, that 0.5% is over £200 million a week? Compares to a UK net contribution to the EU of £170 milion a week. NHS budget in 2019 was £307 million a week. VAT receipts ran at 2.5 bil a week. Income tax paid by the top 10% was 2 bil a week. Looking at those tax figures not sure in or out is the big financial issue stimulating or stullifying the economy.surrey_commuter said:
Our electoral system produces safe seats which seem to attract no hopers.spatt77 said:
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Shaving 0.5% off the long term economic growth rate seems a very high price to pay for wanting to give Chris Grayling slightly more say in your life because he is British.
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.
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You are overlooking the fact that growth is cumulativeflorerider said:
So if I have the right numbers as we had a $2.8 trillion economy in 2018, say at 1.3 exchange rate, that 0.5% is over £200 million a week? Compares to a UK net contribution to the EU of £170 milion a week. NHS budget in 2019 was £307 million a week. VAT receipts ran at 2.5 bil a week. Income tax paid by the top 10% was 2 bil a week. Looking at those tax figures not sure in or out is the big financial issue stimulating or stullifying the economy.surrey_commuter said:
Our electoral system produces safe seats which seem to attract no hopers.spatt77 said:
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Shaving 0.5% off the long term economic growth rate seems a very high price to pay for wanting to give Chris Grayling slightly more say in your life because he is British.
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.
In year 10
UK economy is £2bn smaller a week
EU contribution £170m
NHS ...
You get the picture.
That is so phenomenally bad that I am doubting my sums
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No you are spot on especially as regards public finances. Its the internet, you only get your point over by having someone shoot you down, no one ever agrees.surrey_commuter said:
You are overlooking the fact that growth is cumulativeflorerider said:
So if I have the right numbers as we had a $2.8 trillion economy in 2018, say at 1.3 exchange rate, that 0.5% is over £200 million a week? Compares to a UK net contribution to the EU of £170 milion a week. NHS budget in 2019 was £307 million a week. VAT receipts ran at 2.5 bil a week. Income tax paid by the top 10% was 2 bil a week. Looking at those tax figures not sure in or out is the big financial issue stimulating or stullifying the economy.surrey_commuter said:
Our electoral system produces safe seats which seem to attract no hopers.spatt77 said:
And we do have some power to get rid of the nohopers in parliament whilst having no power to get rid of the EU commission which is one representative of each country! like when the British public rejected Neil Kinnock twice but he was still good enough to become a EU commissionaire!rjsterry said:
SC already answered this. They aren't necessarily, but they come with access to the Single Market, etc.Stevo_666 said:
How are 751 no hoper MEPs and a useless EU president better?surrey_commuter said:
at a time when you have a world beatingly useless PM and 650 no hopers in Parliament it beggars belief that you are happy because they are British.spatt77 said:
Well when i say direct , I mean the people we vote into government are responsible for 100% of decisions made!kingstongraham said:
You want direct democracy?spatt77 said:
control over borders, no payment to EU, some trade, and direct democracy!bompington said:
Which things?spatt77 said:some things WILL be better than now
Shaving 0.5% off the long term economic growth rate seems a very high price to pay for wanting to give Chris Grayling slightly more say in your life because he is British.
Personally I would not pay £1 to give our parliamentary system more powers to do anything.
In year 10
UK economy is £2bn smaller a week
EU contribution £170m
NHS ...
You get the picture.
That is so phenomenally bad that I am doubting my sums0 -
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.0
