BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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florerider said:
No, but isn't that the point.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?
so what is?florerider said:
No, but isn't that the point.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?0 -
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.0 -
With a mortgage of that size I can see why you are bricking it about Brexit.surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.0 -
Not being happy about a decision that has a high probability of that outcome. How about answering the question?spatt77 said:florerider said:
No, but isn't that the point.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?
so what is?florerider said:
No, but isn't that the point.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?0 -
True, all I care about is the economics, as said before I place no value on sovereignity.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your suggestion that all I care about is economics yet I want to see the UK economy fail to prove I am right?
I am as sure Brexit will be an economic failure as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow when it is already peaking over the horizon. How much joy do you think I would derive from winning such an argument with an anonymous account on a cycling forum? I am also in no doubt that anybody who thought it was a good idea economics wise will ever realise they are wrong.
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I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.0 -
I look at it differently, in is better but the only reason for Brexit to be a failure is the way the ardent Brexiteers are driving it.0
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I didnt say you WANT to see Brexit fail, I asked WILL you be happy if it does? you really should spend that 1k you saved on your mortgage on some reading lessons!surrey_commuter said:
True, all I care about is the economics, as said before I place no value on sovereignity.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your suggestion that all I care about is economics yet I want to see the UK economy fail to prove I am right?
I am as sure Brexit will be an economic failure as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow when it is already peaking over the horizon. How much joy do you think I would derive from winning such an argument with an anonymous account on a cycling forum? I am also in no doubt that anybody who thought it was a good idea economics wise will ever realise they are wrong.
As far as economist are concerned there one step ahead of astrologist as far as Im concerned! 0 -
Ignorance should not be something to be proud of.spatt77 said:
I didnt say you WANT to see Brexit fail, I asked WILL you be happy if it does? you really should spend that 1k you saved on your mortgage on some reading lessons!surrey_commuter said:
True, all I care about is the economics, as said before I place no value on sovereignity.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your suggestion that all I care about is economics yet I want to see the UK economy fail to prove I am right?
I am as sure Brexit will be an economic failure as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow when it is already peaking over the horizon. How much joy do you think I would derive from winning such an argument with an anonymous account on a cycling forum? I am also in no doubt that anybody who thought it was a good idea economics wise will ever realise they are wrong. As far as economist are concerned there one step ahead of astrologist as far as Im concerned!
Check out this graph - see if you can work out the trend since Cameron promised a referendum
https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-gdp-growth-annual.png?s=ukgrybzy&v=202005130654V20191105&d1=20100612&url2=/euro-area/gdp-growth-annual
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Yeah , the annual growth rate of both the UK and EU has plummeted at the start of this year! If you read my previous posts, economics is not a primary concern of the Brexit voter. More doom mongering by yourself is not gonna change that! You`ve obviously got a dog in the fight here, would you like to elaborate?0
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You said earlier you're from a part of the world that's experience some pretty rough economic times.spatt77 said:Yeah , the annual growth rate of both the UK and EU has plummeted at the start of this year! If you read my previous posts, economics is not a primary concern of the Brexit voter. More doom mongering by yourself is not gonna change that! You`ve obviously got a dog in the fight here, would you like to elaborate?
Why would you want to pile onto the problems?0 -
And I agree, "ignorance is nothing to be proud of" , which is why Im asking you to read posts properly!surrey_commuter said:
Ignorance should not be something to be proud of.spatt77 said:
I didnt say you WANT to see Brexit fail, I asked WILL you be happy if it does? you really should spend that 1k you saved on your mortgage on some reading lessons!surrey_commuter said:
True, all I care about is the economics, as said before I place no value on sovereignity.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your suggestion that all I care about is economics yet I want to see the UK economy fail to prove I am right?
I am as sure Brexit will be an economic failure as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow when it is already peaking over the horizon. How much joy do you think I would derive from winning such an argument with an anonymous account on a cycling forum? I am also in no doubt that anybody who thought it was a good idea economics wise will ever realise they are wrong. As far as economist are concerned there one step ahead of astrologist as far as Im concerned!
Check out this graph - see if you can work out the trend since Cameron promised a referendum
https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-gdp-growth-annual.png?s=ukgrybzy&v=202005130654V20191105&d1=20100612&url2=/euro-area/gdp-growth-annual0 -
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.0 -
They did vote for leaving the single market and customs union so de facto did vote for it! you cant, stop free movement, not pay in £55 million a day, have the ECJ have no jurisdiction and yet stay in the SM and CU!florerider said:
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.0 -
No. Just no. It was repeated constantly by all members of vote leave that they would never leave the Single Market in the ref campaign.spatt77 said:
They did vote for leaving the single market and customs union so de facto did voteflorerider said:
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.0 -
yes, just yes! it was repeatedly said by the Remain campaign , Cameron, Clegg , Osbourne et al that a vote to leave would mean leaving the SM and CU!rick_chasey said:
No. Just no. It was repeated constantly by all members of vote leave that they would never leave the Single Market in the ref campaign.spatt77 said:
They did vote for leaving the single market and customs union so de facto did voteflorerider said:
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.1 -
These arguments truly are now a case of 'too little too late'.coopster_the_1st said:Remoaners still fighting the 2016 referendum result. Ha Ha. You lost and you look stupid refusing to accept this!
One remoaner anti-deomcrats has even tried to take advantage of the current pandemic to try and sneak through a private members bill this Friday to stop the UK leaving.
All he has ended up doing is wasting a private members bill and prove how anti-democratic he and his party really are.
It won't get reported in the MSM but it will enjoy the crushing defeat it deserves as per the UK's electoral decision in Dec 2019"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Hahaha!spatt77 said:
yes, just yes! it was repeatedly said by the Remain campaign , Cameron, Clegg , Osbourne et al that a vote to leave would mean leaving the SM and CU!rick_chasey said:
No. Just no. It was repeated constantly by all members of vote leave that they would never leave the Single Market in the ref campaign.spatt77 said:
They did vote for leaving the single market and customs union so de facto did voteflorerider said:
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.
Nice work.1 -
It's difficult to believe how easy it is to hook some people back into this. Well done, splatt.1
-
Well , it may or may not be economically a bad move, we , actually nobody knows yet! But the Common Market we joined in 71` has changed beyond recognition. I believe that if we were told what the common market was to become( and the British government did know) we would have never joined in the first place!rick_chasey said:
You said earlier you're from a part of the world that's experience some pretty rough economic times.spatt77 said:Yeah , the annual growth rate of both the UK and EU has plummeted at the start of this year! If you read my previous posts, economics is not a primary concern of the Brexit voter. More doom mongering by yourself is not gonna change that! You`ve obviously got a dog in the fight here, would you like to elaborate?
Why would you want to pile onto the problems?0 -
to use your own lazy accusation - read my posts, other than a citizen of the UK I have no more of a dog in this fight than anybody else. I do not work fro Nissan and my employer is not dependent on exports to the EU and is not one that will have supply chains disrupted.spatt77 said:Yeah , the annual growth rate of both the UK and EU has plummeted at the start of this year! If you read my previous posts, economics is not a primary concern of the Brexit voter. More doom mongering by yourself is not gonna change that! You`ve obviously got a dog in the fight here, would you like to elaborate?
0 -
WTO is not defacto as a result of leaving, it is a defacto result of not having delivered the comprehensive free trade deal promised before the vote. Yet again changing the discourse based upon non delivery by the Brexiteers.spatt77 said:
They did vote for leaving the single market and customs union so de facto did vote for it! you cant, stop free movement, not pay in £55 million a day, have the ECJ have no jurisdiction and yet stay in the SM and CU!florerider said:
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.0 -
maybe you could give lessons on hair splitting or how to dance on a pinheadspatt77 said:
And I agree, "ignorance is nothing to be proud of" , which is why Im asking you to read posts properly!surrey_commuter said:
Ignorance should not be something to be proud of.spatt77 said:
I didnt say you WANT to see Brexit fail, I asked WILL you be happy if it does? you really should spend that 1k you saved on your mortgage on some reading lessons!surrey_commuter said:
True, all I care about is the economics, as said before I place no value on sovereignity.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your suggestion that all I care about is economics yet I want to see the UK economy fail to prove I am right?
I am as sure Brexit will be an economic failure as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow when it is already peaking over the horizon. How much joy do you think I would derive from winning such an argument with an anonymous account on a cycling forum? I am also in no doubt that anybody who thought it was a good idea economics wise will ever realise they are wrong. As far as economist are concerned there one step ahead of astrologist as far as Im concerned!
Check out this graph - see if you can work out the trend since Cameron promised a referendum
https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-gdp-growth-annual.png?s=ukgrybzy&v=202005130654V20191105&d1=20100612&url2=/euro-area/gdp-growth-annual
I didnt say you WANT to see Brexit fail, I asked WILL you be happy if it does?0 -
So you are relying on what remain said now?spatt77 said:
yes, just yes! it was repeatedly said by the Remain campaign , Cameron, Clegg , Osbourne et al that a vote to leave would mean leaving the SM and CU!rick_chasey said:
No. Just no. It was repeated constantly by all members of vote leave that they would never leave the Single Market in the ref campaign.spatt77 said:
They did vote for leaving the single market and customs union so de facto did voteflorerider said:
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.0 -
One wonders what else they may have been correct about if that's the case...florerider said:
So you are relying on what remain said now?spatt77 said:
yes, just yes! it was repeatedly said by the Remain campaign , Cameron, Clegg , Osbourne et al that a vote to leave would mean leaving the SM and CU!rick_chasey said:
No. Just no. It was repeated constantly by all members of vote leave that they would never leave the Single Market in the ref campaign.spatt77 said:
They did vote for leaving the single market and customs union so de facto did voteflorerider said:
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Well SC, we have something in common! I dont work for Nissan and my employment is not affected by the EU! who would of thunk it, you agreeing with a fervent Brexiteer!surrey_commuter said:
to use your own lazy accusation - read my posts, other than a citizen of the UK I have no more of a dog in this fight than anybody else. I do not work fro Nissan and my employer is not dependent on exports to the EU and is not one that will have supply chains disrupted.spatt77 said:Yeah , the annual growth rate of both the UK and EU has plummeted at the start of this year! If you read my previous posts, economics is not a primary concern of the Brexit voter. More doom mongering by yourself is not gonna change that! You`ve obviously got a dog in the fight here, would you like to elaborate?
0 -
What, the biggest one in the world in which the UK had an outsized say on it, given it's relative size?spatt77 said:
Well , it may or may not be economically a bad move, we , actually nobody knows yet! But the Common Market we joined in 71` has changed beyond recognition. I believe that if we were told what the common market was to become( and the British government did know) we would have never joined in the first place!rick_chasey said:
You said earlier you're from a part of the world that's experience some pretty rough economic times.spatt77 said:Yeah , the annual growth rate of both the UK and EU has plummeted at the start of this year! If you read my previous posts, economics is not a primary concern of the Brexit voter. More doom mongering by yourself is not gonna change that! You`ve obviously got a dog in the fight here, would you like to elaborate?
Why would you want to pile onto the problems?0 -
Tenacious newbie battling with the hardcore believers.kingstongraham said:It's difficult to believe how easy it is to hook some people back into this. Well done, splatt.
2 -
No! Im just saying that both Remain and leave camps spelt out what this could mean! We still could get a FTA but thats up to the EU!florerider said:
So you are relying on what remain said now?spatt77 said:
yes, just yes! it was repeatedly said by the Remain campaign , Cameron, Clegg , Osbourne et al that a vote to leave would mean leaving the SM and CU!rick_chasey said:
No. Just no. It was repeated constantly by all members of vote leave that they would never leave the Single Market in the ref campaign.spatt77 said:
They did vote for leaving the single market and customs union so de facto did voteflorerider said:
Access to the market with WTO is a post referendum concept so your response makes no sense. No one voted for it as no one propsed it.spatt77 said:
I think youre missing the point, even on WTO we`ll still have access to the "market" Maybe not on as favourable terms but being their biggest single trading partner trade will continue but with non of the 4 freedoms that`s attached! The negotiations have a while to go yet! lets wait and see eh!florerider said:
Yup, the Owen Patterson one is very clear, so where is that agreement and why any interest in WTO at all? Makes my point nicely thank you.spatt77 said:
well, next time you`re on YOUTUBE type in Andrew Neil James Mcgory! all your questions will be answered thereflorerider said:It will be an intersting history exam question. Owen Patterson said "only a madman would leave the (single) market". Liam Fox said of trade deal "easiest in human history". David Davis said such a trade deal recignised their desire to sell cars and prosecco to us will result in us being granted access to their markets for services.
Discuss.0 -
I prefer to dance on a dancefloor! much more appropriate!surrey_commuter said:
maybe you could give lessons on hair splitting or how to dance on a pinheadspatt77 said:
And I agree, "ignorance is nothing to be proud of" , which is why Im asking you to read posts properly!surrey_commuter said:
Ignorance should not be something to be proud of.spatt77 said:
I didnt say you WANT to see Brexit fail, I asked WILL you be happy if it does? you really should spend that 1k you saved on your mortgage on some reading lessons!surrey_commuter said:
True, all I care about is the economics, as said before I place no value on sovereignity.spatt77 said:
because all you talk about is the economic repercussions! will you be happy if Brexit fails just to prove youre right?surrey_commuter said:
So you can not give one reason for why the UK economy will be better off outside of the EU. That puts you alongside Farage and co but that does just leave blind optimism for why you think it will be better.spatt77 said:
I dont have too and i`m not saying it will but it sounds like its all about money for you?surrey_commuter said:
Why don’t you give me some reasons why the UK will be richer outside of the Single Market.spatt77 said:
Im not projecting a economic disaster, I think trying to look into the future is futile, I just don`t believe every that`s being predicted. If you do, that`s for you!. If you or the UK in general end up being "richer" will you then look at Brexit as a success?surrey_commuter said:
I don't get why you project an economic disaster onto our beliefs and then tell us to get a grip.spatt77 said:You Remainers need to get a grip! listen , we had a vote, you lost, no doubt if you had won by a million people you would of said that`s democracy! I live in the North East, I was a kid when Consett steel works closed, I was at school when the miners strike was on, that was real division!. The reason working class areas voted for Brexit was because we`ve been through the REALLY hard times and if that happens again we`ll take it on the chin. If you live in Surrey or Kingston for example you've probably never endured any real financial hardship(unemployment was just below 3 million when i left school) lets just see how it pans out eh. If in ten years time it turns out to be a disaster then i`ll hold my hands up and say I was wrong !
Scientists are far from unanimous about climate change yet economists (bar one nutter) are all agreed that Leaving will be bad for the UK economy. No member of the Leave campaign has ever seriously suggested that it will be positive for the Uk economy.
The last estimate I saw was that the UK economy was already 2.5% smaller than it would have been if no referendum. In ten years time it will be another 5% smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will not be a disaster it will just be less good than it otherwise would have been as the Govt will have £60bn less to spend. Teachers, pensioners and nurses will be paid 7.5% less than they could have been, there will two more kids in a class and NHS waiting lists will be a bit longer. That is what slowing economic growth looks like.
You have literally voted to make the UK poorer and you need to own that and not rely on easy platitudes like "let's see how it all pans out".
You are right that the greatest hardship will not fall upon most on this forum which makes it ironic that we are the ones raging in defence of those upon who it will fall.
Try and look on a macro level, as the GFC knocked £1k a month off my mortgage but I don’t see it as a success.
I have never mentioned money, why do you think that you keep projecting that on to me?
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your suggestion that all I care about is economics yet I want to see the UK economy fail to prove I am right?
I am as sure Brexit will be an economic failure as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow when it is already peaking over the horizon. How much joy do you think I would derive from winning such an argument with an anonymous account on a cycling forum? I am also in no doubt that anybody who thought it was a good idea economics wise will ever realise they are wrong. As far as economist are concerned there one step ahead of astrologist as far as Im concerned!
Check out this graph - see if you can work out the trend since Cameron promised a referendum
https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-gdp-growth-annual.png?s=ukgrybzy&v=202005130654V20191105&d1=20100612&url2=/euro-area/gdp-growth-annual
I didnt say you WANT to see Brexit fail, I asked WILL you be happy if it does?0
