BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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Comments

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,585
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Johnson wouldn't have voted for this deal if May had brought it back. No question.

    He voted for May's deal.
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    bradsbeard wrote:
    HaydenM wrote:
    In a straw poll of 4 of us in the office (2 leave, 2 remain) I think we have all come to the conclusion that the deal probably isn't a dreadful idea. Though the rest don't agree that a 2nd ref is the best way to give the deal solid legitimacy, allow leave MPs to climb down without losing face whilst also convincing/pacifying quite a few remainers in the public (like me).

    One of the leavers keeps saying the EU are Nazis and he'll never vote again if we remain, the other is worried that if it goes remain we will be back to square one (fair enough really but I disagree) and the other remainer switched to leave immediately after the vote and thinks we should string up a few hundred politicians in Trafalgar square. So while it's a useful insight I'm beginning to find out a bit more about the people I work with more than anything...

    Just because their opinion differs doesn't make it any less than yours.

    I'm a remainer but sick to the back teeth of it all. Let's be honest any deal will not satisfy most people.

    Where have I said that? My point was that we actually all think we would compromise to settle on the deal, and that I understand that they don't agree on the second referendum.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    TheBigBean wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Various predictions concluding that Johnson is a handful of votes short. So far.

    Quite a few unknowns, though.

    The link I posted upthread has it the other way. They even have Hoey as a Tory rebel.

    I would imagine the lists are being updated hourly as the thumbscrews are applied.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 19,658
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Johnson wouldn't have voted for this deal if May had brought it back. No question.
    Johnson will do absolutely anything if he thinks it'll benefit him politically.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    However my question if the deal passes (I kind of hope it does) but i have stopped hoping, what incentive is there for a GE? The incentive kind of evaporates for the opposition and the tories. If new WA passes will support for the Tories wain?

    The Tories need a majority to get anything done and even if this passes there is lots more of Brexit to do let alone any of the, you know, other stuff.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,585
    rjsterry wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Various predictions concluding that Johnson is a handful of votes short. So far.

    Quite a few unknowns, though.

    The link I posted upthread has it the other way. They even have Hoey as a Tory rebel.

    I would imagine the lists are being updated hourly as the thumbscrews are applied.

    Yes, it is being updated based on interviews and tweets hence it keeps changing.
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    both the deals looked alright to me
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,662
    Robert88 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Absolutely accept that this is an "Am I alright Jack' question but does anyone know what effect this would have on citizens rights, especially those of us who work in the EU?

    Good, bad or nothing?

    Unfortunately I feel our country (much as I ve tried to make it not mine) is about to be suckered in by floppy hair and bluster...

    From the BBC:
    Citizens' rights
    UK citizens in the EU, and EU citizens in the UK, will retain their residency and social security rights after Brexit.

    Freedom of movement rules will continue to apply during transition. This means that UK nationals will be able to live and work in EU countries (and EU nationals will be able to live and work in UK) during this period.

    Anyone who remains in the same EU country for five years will be allowed to apply for permanent residence.

    Guess that should include reciprocal health cover but I would not bet on it being the same as we enjoy now. I wouldn't bet on the survival of the NHS, either.

    Thanks, that is slightly reassuring. Now I just have to try and convince my self that I don't care about dear Britain and I can be ok

    Health care is not so much of a problem (gonna suck if Ma or Pa raver want to come visit) as I usually have to go on local healthcare anyway. This is rarely a negative for me...
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    Doom mongers of the world.

    Please leave the country. The port at dover has frequent ferrys every day to the land of milk and honey.

    Good bye xx

    Yeah dickwad I'm trying to. You are so stupid you don't realize you're making it harder for us. Happy to leave you in the crap you created.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,814
    TheBigBean wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Johnson wouldn't have voted for this deal if May had brought it back. No question.

    He voted for May's deal.

    That's true eventually, yes. So maybe he would have in these circumstances that an artificial time limit has been imposed. But in one of the ways this is different to May's deal, he specifically said that no Conservative government could ever countenance it.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,761
    ddraver wrote:
    Yeah dickwad I'm trying to. You are so stupid you don't realize you're making it harder for us. Happy to leave you in the crap you created.
    I thought you were already based in France? Seem to recall you posting a while back about working over there doing airport - resort transfers for holidaymakers?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    both the deals looked alright to me
    They are very, very similar, in a lot of ways. And leave a lot to be decided in the future relationship.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    rjsterry wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    both the deals looked alright to me
    They are very, very similar, in a lot of ways. And leave a lot to be decided in the future relationship.

    things change all the time, there will always be a lot to be decided.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The NI only backstop won't be the thing that prevents it passing.

    What will then?

    *If* he succeeds in removing the level playing field protections he'll lose the Labour votes he'll need to be sure.

    That would be a *very* big win if he got that, no?


    Oh oh spaghetti oh.

    Are you going to provide another vote prediction?


    Passes
    Majority between 5-10
    Labour 19 to break in favour*







    * Making no logical sense but there you go.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    bradsbeard wrote:
    I'm a remainer but sick to the back teeth of it all. Let's be honest any deal will not satisfy most people.

    That mindset is why we are in this mess. "Sick to the back teeth of it all" is ultimately no better an attitude than that of A Dog. I'm pretty sure everyone who fought in WW2 was pretty much sick to the back teeth of it all but that wasn't regarded as a reason to give up.

    Besides, as said repeatedly by many, getting this or any other deal won't stop Brexit being the number one news item for years and years and years. You need to get used to it.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,662
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Yeah dickwad I'm trying to. You are so stupid you don't realize you're making it harder for us. Happy to leave you in the crap you created.
    I thought you were already based in France? Seem to recall you posting a while back about working over there doing airport - resort transfers for holidaymakers?

    The trouble has been for the last 10 years or so now I ve been in and out of the EU or Switzerland (which for this purpose counts in all important ways)

    So...

    3 years in NL
    9 months in UK
    2 years in NL
    Winter in CH
    Summer in F
    Winter in CH
    Summer in NL again
    (vague realization that 3 years no longer counts as a career break so time to take it seriously)
    Winter in CH
    Summer in F

    Winter in CH in a few weeks

    You can see the problem. I have never got close to being able to apply for residence in any of those countries because I have moved about the EU. I'm no genius but I'm not a complete muppet so now the company I work for has offered me enough promotions/employment to make it feasible to live in Chamonix all year so that would be the plan but...There is a potential that I will not be able to.

    I don't think I posted it here but one of the bigger (our rivals), British owned, transfer companies in Chamonix put up an advert saying that British people need not apply this year. It was swiftly removed as I suspect it wasn't allowed. Ironically because of an EU law...

    It's now in French and says that Fluent English is mandatory but basic French - too basic to understand the advert - is 'only' desirable...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    There'll be a lot of nonsense about the great job Boris has done, but the truth is this: when the UK gov accepted the reality of the Irish Border, put away the notions of alternative arrangements and made up it's mind which of the models the EU had on offer they wanted to go with, a deal was done.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Rolf F wrote:
    bradsbeard wrote:
    I'm a remainer but sick to the back teeth of it all. Let's be honest any deal will not satisfy most people.

    That mindset is why we are in this mess. "Sick to the back teeth of it all" is ultimately no better an attitude than that of A Dog. I'm pretty sure everyone who fought in WW2 was pretty much sick to the back teeth of it all but that wasn't regarded as a reason to give up.

    Besides, as said repeatedly by many, getting this or any other deal won't stop Brexit being the number one news item for years and years and years. You need to get used to it.

    my my what a loser you really are. It's not giving up to recognise that there might be a benefit to just getting it done and then move on. invoke the millions who died in the war if you like but its disrespectful in the extreme. Especially coming from someone like you with your anti democratic sneering liberalism.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,585
    ddraver wrote:
    so now the company I work for has offered me enough promotions/employment to make it feasible to live in Chamonix all year so that would be the plan but...There is a potential that I will not be able to.

    Sounds good to me. And you can live there if the WA passes.

    I thought your life was in rocks anyway?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,585
    TailWindHome wrote:
    There'll be a lot of nonsense about the great job Boris has done, but the truth is this: when the UK gov accepted the reality of the Irish Border, put away the notions of alternative arrangements and made up it's mind which of the models the EU had on offer they wanted to go with, a deal was done.

    You're not joining the big Boris love in which is on show at the EU summit then?
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Boris has played a blinder and is now in a no lose situation. This is a very good thing for the long term ahead of draining Parliament of the rubbish and anti-democracy MP's there.

    The deal is OK. I would have been much happier with it had the payment been conditional on an FTA.

    I would vote for it though to move the UK forward but have a serious gripe with surrendering the payment as we have!
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,662
    TheBigBean wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    so now the company I work for has offered me enough promotions/employment to make it feasible to live in Chamonix all year so that would be the plan but...There is a potential that I will not be able to.

    Sounds good to me. And you can live there if the WA passes.

    I thought your life was in rocks anyway?

    Oily rocks tho...

    Trouble with working with stuff that's millions of years old is that leaving it in the ground for plus/minus 10 years doesn't really matter...People do seem to be drilling holes again though which means I may have to make a decision again.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,585
    ddraver wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    so now the company I work for has offered me enough promotions/employment to make it feasible to live in Chamonix all year so that would be the plan but...There is a potential that I will not be able to.

    Sounds good to me. And you can live there if the WA passes.

    I thought your life was in rocks anyway?

    Oily rocks tho...

    Trouble with working with stuff that's millions of years old is that leaving it in the ground for plus/minus 10 years doesn't really matter...People do seem to be drilling holes again though which means I may have to make a decision again.

    Change to hot rocks. They have a future although perhaps not in Chamonix.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Alexander Brown
    @AlexofBrown
    Am told Seumas Milne informed staffers at Labour HQ he expects the deal to pass.


    A nod's as good as a wink?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,144
    Merkel has just firmly knocked the "no prolongation" idea on the head.
    During private EU summit talks on Brexit, the German chancellor told her fellow leaders they could not pretend an extension would not be offered to the UK if it was requested, according to a source familiar with the discussions.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • bradsbeard
    bradsbeard Posts: 210
    Rolf F wrote:
    bradsbeard wrote:
    I'm a remainer but sick to the back teeth of it all. Let's be honest any deal will not satisfy most people.

    That mindset is why we are in this mess. "Sick to the back teeth of it all" is ultimately no better an attitude than that of A Dog. I'm pretty sure everyone who fought in WW2 was pretty much sick to the back teeth of it all but that wasn't regarded as a reason to give up.

    Besides, as said repeatedly by many, getting this or any other deal won't stop Brexit being the number one news item for years and years and years. You need to get used to it.

    Eh? You for real?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,585
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Alexander Brown
    @AlexofBrown
    Am told Seumas Milne informed staffers at Labour HQ he expects the deal to pass.


    A nod's as good as a wink?

    Over on the Labour thread, I suggested their best bet was to vote for the deal, but it seems they are going to pretend to vote against instead.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,814
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Boris has played a blinder and is now in a no lose situation. This is a very good thing for the long term ahead of draining Parliament of the rubbish and anti-democracy MP's there.

    The deal is OK. I would have been much happier with it had the payment been conditional on an FTA.

    I would vote for it though to move the UK forward but have a serious gripe with surrendering the payment as we have!

    Hi, can you explain why this is no BRINO like you said May's deal was? Ta.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Well now.




    James Forsyth
    @JGForsyth
    Big moment as former First Minister of Northern Ireland David Trimble declares that the new Brexit deal is ‘fully in accordance with the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement

    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/11 ... 3565966336
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Well now.




    James Forsyth
    @JGForsyth
    Big moment as former First Minister of Northern Ireland David Trimble declares that the new Brexit deal is ‘fully in accordance with the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement

    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/11 ... 3565966336

    Good job the 'spirit' and the 'letter of the law' are not the same thing. One is subjective, the other isnt.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,814
    Imposter wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Well now.




    James Forsyth
    @JGForsyth
    Big moment as former First Minister of Northern Ireland David Trimble declares that the new Brexit deal is ‘fully in accordance with the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement

    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/11 ... 3565966336

    Good job the 'spirit' and the 'letter of the law' are not the same thing. One is subjective, the other isnt.

    The actual wording in the Good Friday agreement has the text "Wishing to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the close co-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union; " so the spirit is important.

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