BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

Stevo_666

mamil314 wrote:

Has it been answered somehwere in the thread why option for 2nd referendum and with it cancellation of Brexit was never provided? All other options seem well inferior.

Almost certainly, but finding it in over 1,900 pages may be tricky. It may be a tad late to be asking though.

rjsterry

TailWindHome wrote:

ERG all on board.
But he's lost Slyvia Hermon (Ind Unionist)

DUP hinting that they will vote for the Letwin amendment to show their displeasure at being stiffed by Johnson.

@mamil314: Bluntly because there isn't enough support for that in Parliament.

rjsterry

Letwin amendment passed. Approval of deal conditional on passing of WAB. Johnson still insisting he won't request extension.

robert88

Which ditch?

morstar

Robert88 wrote:

Which ditch?

Still insisting he won't. Just proves that the no deal threat was always as much for the internal audience as for the Eu.
Back to obscure constitutional legalese for the next couple of weeks.

robert88

tailwindhome

306 voted against the amendment.
Logical that these are in the bank for the deal.

twotoebenny

thecycleclinic wrote:

Listening to the "discussion" in parliament which is more a rehash of the past three years, the word Democracy and democratic is being over used. It being used by all to signal there way.

Pretty much the most over used word(s) in the last 3 years

tailwindhome

TailWindHome wrote:

306 voted against the amendment.
Logical that these are in the bank for the deal.

Actually maybe not. Hoey was against Letwin and will also be against the deal

rjsterry

Good thread on how we got here from Peter Foster (Brexit is certainly testing the limits of long Twitter threads).

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/st ... 5053895680

Some reassurance for those opposed to no deal.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

Good thread on how we got here from Peter Foster (Brexit is certainly testing the limits of long Twitter threads).

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/st ... 5053895680

Some reassurance for those opposed to no deal.

For the non-twitterati it would be great if you could explain who these people are so we could judge the appropriate weight to put on their opinions.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

ERG all on board.
But he's lost Slyvia Hermon (Ind Unionist)

DUP hinting that they will vote for the Letwin amendment to show their displeasure at being stiffed by Johnson.

@mamil314: Bluntly because there isn't enough support for that in Parliament.

Surely DUP being consistent wanting NI to leave the same as every other part of the UK.

Can not understand the behaviour of the ERG.

cycleclinic

TailWindHome wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

306 voted against the amendment.
Logical that these are in the bank for the deal.

Actually maybe not. Hoey was against Letwin and will also be against the deal

Hoey is against everything except no deal. She's in the wrong party.

pinno

"Boris Johnson has confirmed in a phone call with the European council president Donald Tusk that he is sending a letter requesting a further Brexit delay beyond 31 October."

cycleclinic

More can kicking then. I bet referendum amendments will be deferred too. This has become a very messy and super paralysed. I did say this will get worse before it gets better and that the paralysis wont end soon, I did jot want to be right. I'm not sure any more a election will be held. There is no agreement on anything but can kicking.

cycleclinic

Pinno wrote:

"Boris Johnson has confirmed in a phone call with the European council president Donald Tusk that he is sending a letter requesting a further Brexit delay beyond 31 October."

Perhaps bojo has realised there are many ditches to die in and the DUP will be there with shovels to fill it in.

To think he really wanted this job.

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Good thread on how we got here from Peter Foster (Brexit is certainly testing the limits of long Twitter threads).

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/st ... 5053895680

Some reassurance for those opposed to no deal.

For the non-twitterati it would be great if you could explain who these people are so we could judge the appropriate weight to put on their opinions.

Peter Foster is the Telegraph's Europe Editor. He's generally acknowledged as someone who knows what they are talking about with regard to Brexit.

tailwindhome

Tony Connolly with How the deal was done

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1084372/?__twitt ... ssion=true

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Good thread on how we got here from Peter Foster (Brexit is certainly testing the limits of long Twitter threads).

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/st ... 5053895680

Some reassurance for those opposed to no deal.

For the non-twitterati it would be great if you could explain who these people are so we could judge the appropriate weight to put on their opinions.

Peter Foster is the Telegraph's Europe Editor. He's generally acknowledged as someone who knows what they are talking about with regard to Brexit.

Thank you

mfin

It's disgusting how so many MPs talk in absolutes that the public are fed up and just want brexit done. It's a sweeping generalisation with absolutely no substantiation.

There are definitely huge amounts of people who are not in the slightest bit inclined to have brexit put through just because they are somehow 'fed up with delays'.

1 million people managed to make it to London to march today against leaving.

Politicians don't speak even for the spread of opinion of their constituents. This has always been the case but surely never so much as now.

The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.

People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.

briantrumpet

mfin wrote:

People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.

Unfortunately we're living in an age when a powerful politician can kill with an impulsive tweet, and when 'pragmatism' seems to be a dirty word. Not much hope then for patience and common sense.

mfin

briantrumpet wrote:

mfin wrote:

People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.

Unfortunately we're living in an age when a powerful politician can kill with an impulsive tweet, and when 'pragmatism' seems to be a dirty word. Not much hope then for patience and common sense.

Yep, and an age where people with utter conviction can repeat nothing but small sentence soundbites and think it forms a worthwhile argument. It's a crying shame. The UK's politics is dumbing down to meet the dumb. It seems a shame we don't get more people even speaking to the averagely intelligent considered masses, politicians have learnt to speak to the lowest common denominator of intelligence and bigotry instead, it's likely we'll never return from that now.

Pross

Proper Kevin the Teenager behaviour by Boris but listening to the radio it seems to have played well with his base.

Stevo_666

mfin wrote:

It's disgusting how so many MPs talk in absolutes that the public are fed up and just want brexit done. It's a sweeping generalisation with absolutely no substantiation.

There are definitely huge amounts of people who are not in the slightest bit inclined to have brexit put through just because they are somehow 'fed up with delays'.

1 million people managed to make it to London to march today against leaving.

Politicians don't speak even for the spread of opinion of their constituents. This has always been the case but surely never so much as now.

The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.

People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.

There is data out there supporting the view that people are already impatient for a resolution, for example:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/would-you-feel-more-annoyed-that-it-took-so-long-or-pleased-that-it-took-so-long-if-the-uk-secures-a-deal-to-leave-the-eu-on-31-october/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-agree-or-disagree-that-having-got-this-far-in-the-process-mps-on-both-the-leave-and-remain-sides-need-to-compromise-more-than-ever-to-back-a-deal-in-order-for-the-country-to-move-on/

briantrumpet

Stevo 666 wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's disgusting how so many MPs talk in absolutes that the public are fed up and just want brexit done. It's a sweeping generalisation with absolutely no substantiation.

There are definitely huge amounts of people who are not in the slightest bit inclined to have brexit put through just because they are somehow 'fed up with delays'.

1 million people managed to make it to London to march today against leaving.

Politicians don't speak even for the spread of opinion of their constituents. This has always been the case but surely never so much as now.

The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.

People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.

There is data out there supporting the view that people are already impatient for a resolution, for example:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/would-you-feel-more-annoyed-that-it-took-so-long-or-pleased-that-it-took-so-long-if-the-uk-secures-a-deal-to-leave-the-eu-on-31-october/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-agree-or-disagree-that-having-got-this-far-in-the-process-mps-on-both-the-leave-and-remain-sides-need-to-compromise-more-than-ever-to-back-a-deal-in-order-for-the-country-to-move-on/

Of course people are impatient for a resolution: that's natural. But it's not the job of sensible politicians to misuse that impatience to rush through an ill-conceived and unscrutinised course of action. It's also worth bearing in mind that populist politicians will deliberately engender a sense of urgency to ram through radical policies.

briantrumpet

Pross wrote:

Proper Kevin the Teenager behaviour by Boris but listening to the radio it seems to have played well with his base.

"No, you can't make me sign that letter. Not going to do it. And anyway, I was crossing my fingers. Yah boo sucks to you, Letwin!"

It'll be interesting to see how the EU respond to it.

rjsterry

Pross wrote:

Proper Kevin the Teenager behaviour by Boris but listening to the radio it seems to have played well with his base.

Of course, but despite all the nonsense about the Benn Act hindering negotiations (did he ever really countenance leaving with out a deal?), I think it may have helped him. Most of the Tory rebels will now feel 'safe' in voting for the WAB, as will Labour rebels, so he should be good for 320+. He might even get it done by 31st.

Then the start of the fight for the FTA.

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

Pross wrote:

Proper Kevin the Teenager behaviour by Boris but listening to the radio it seems to have played well with his base.

"No, you can't make me sign that letter. Not going to do it. And anyway, I was crossing my fingers. Yah boo sucks to you, Letwin!"

It'll be interesting to see how the EU respond to it.

A lot of huffing and puffing but they know they pretty much have to.

ballysmate

mfin wrote:

It's disgusting how so many MPs talk in absolutes that the public are fed up and just want brexit done. It's a sweeping generalisation with absolutely no substantiation.

There are definitely huge amounts of people who are not in the slightest bit inclined to have brexit put through just because they are somehow 'fed up with delays'.

1 million people managed to make it to London to march today against leaving.

Politicians don't speak even for the spread of opinion of their constituents. This has always been the case but surely never so much as now.

The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.

People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.

I assume that if it had been 52/48 the other way you would be telling Leavers to suck it up.
A million people eh? What do we make of that? Not even the difference between leave and remain.
Or 64 million are quite happy to leave. Quite meaningless

Stevo_666

briantrumpet wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's disgusting how so many MPs talk in absolutes that the public are fed up and just want brexit done. It's a sweeping generalisation with absolutely no substantiation.

There are definitely huge amounts of people who are not in the slightest bit inclined to have brexit put through just because they are somehow 'fed up with delays'.

1 million people managed to make it to London to march today against leaving.

Politicians don't speak even for the spread of opinion of their constituents. This has always been the case but surely never so much as now.

The fact remains that 52/48 was the equivalent of two drinks one slightly fuller than the other, but one was fuller as it had a floating turd in it. That turd represented racists, xenophobes and those without the slightest bit of mental agility to match their own false attributions of why they feel the country is not in a state that they want.

People really need to be incredibly patient. The issue of leaving or remaining in the EU is not one that should be sped through, a few years, and even a few years more to work this out is not 'annoying' it is simple sensible and diligent.

There is data out there supporting the view that people are already impatient for a resolution, for example:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/would-you-feel-more-annoyed-that-it-took-so-long-or-pleased-that-it-took-so-long-if-the-uk-secures-a-deal-to-leave-the-eu-on-31-october/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-agree-or-disagree-that-having-got-this-far-in-the-process-mps-on-both-the-leave-and-remain-sides-need-to-compromise-more-than-ever-to-back-a-deal-in-order-for-the-country-to-move-on/

Of course people are impatient for a resolution: that's natural. But it's not the job of sensible politicians to misuse that impatience to rush through an ill-conceived and unscrutinised course of action. It's also worth bearing in mind that populist politicians will deliberately engender a sense of urgency to ram through radical policies.

Time is is not limitless here even there there is another extension. And given what has happened after the last extension, there is not a lot of evidence that another one will do much good.

In any event, as mentioned above the FTA is still to come: that is arguably more important and there is time to consider that.