BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

ballysmate

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

cougie wrote:

And if Scotland leave the EU how long before they leave the Union ?

Quite soon I hope. Very much looking forward to seeing their kids paying for university education and running up huge debts like mine had to do. And don't get me started on free scripts and eyesight tests.

A remarkably vindictive attitude.

Yes. When I see my son in debt to the tune of over £45k before he's started earning I do feel slightly vindictive, when if he'd been Scottish and educated north of border it'd been just over 50% less debt.
Glad you're happy to subsidize with your tax dollars. I'm not.

His choice, I would imagine?

hopkinb

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

cougie wrote:

And if Scotland leave the EU how long before they leave the Union ?

Quite soon I hope. Very much looking forward to seeing their kids paying for university education and running up huge debts like mine had to do. And don't get me started on free scripts and eyesight tests.

A remarkably vindictive attitude.

Yes. When I see my son in debt to the tune of over £45k before he's started earning I do feel slightly vindictive, when if he'd been Scottish and educated north of border it'd been just over 50% less debt.
Glad you're happy to subsidize with your tax dollars. I'm not.

You should have saved up for your son's university education.

Surely his degree will equip him with the skills such that he will earn enough to repay the student debt with ease.

If not, he won't have to repay it.

Charges mean universities are more accountable to their students, the market makes them more efficient, and so the institutions are incentivised and can afford to provide the best facilities and education.

...all the other right wing excuses for charging for higher education, which surely, being a right winger, you approve of. Until it affects you. Which just makes you a right whinger.

bianchimoon

Title should be Conservatives - End game? Has the clown rather cleverly cornered himself? He's got PM on his CV realised it's not all rather a jolly jape so put himself in a position where political suicide is the only way out. It seems a party that sacks so many 'moderate' and even a few good conservatives so that it can pander to right wingers and populists has passed away as a mainstream political party. Or is that stating the bleeding obvious

rjsterry

Anyone else notice the barely concealed glee with which Theresa May greeted Lee's defection and the result of the vote.

shirley_basso

While she inherited a poisoned chalice, you can't say she didn't do everything to get something over the line.

bianchimoon

Another good forensic biopsy of Doris by John Crace
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-alliance

kingstongraham

Shirley Basso wrote:

While she inherited a poisoned chalice, you can't say she didn't do everything to get something over the line.

Yes you can.

surrey_commuter

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

cougie wrote:

And if Scotland leave the EU how long before they leave the Union ?

Quite soon I hope. Very much looking forward to seeing their kids paying for university education and running up huge debts like mine had to do. And don't get me started on free scripts and eyesight tests.

A remarkably vindictive attitude.

Yes. When I see my son in debt to the tune of over £45k before he's started earning I do feel slightly vindictive, when if he'd been Scottish and educated north of border it'd been just over 50% less debt.
Glad you're happy to subsidize with your tax dollars. I'm not.

statistically it is more likely that you are being subsidized. Even if your net tax burden was £100k a year how much of that do you think would be spent on free uni education for Scots?

pinno

cougie wrote:

And if Scotland leave the EU how long before they leave the Union ?

You mean the other way around?

Meanwhile, the slimy odious sea slug has a sudden attack of apathy:

rolf_f

Ballysmate wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

cougie wrote:

And if Scotland leave the EU how long before they leave the Union ?

Quite soon I hope. Very much looking forward to seeing their kids paying for university education and running up huge debts like mine had to do. And don't get me started on free scripts and eyesight tests.

Jealousy is not a good look.

It's the Brexit mentality - lets drag everyone down to the bottom. It's why all the "Make Britain Great Again" stuff doesn't wash. We won't be working with Europe to everyone's best interest (after all, that is what the EU is for) - it will all be "well they are taxing this more than we'd like so we'll tax their stuff more than they'd like" and so on and so on. My life is crap so rather than try to improve it lets make their lives crap as well.

Mr Goo's post perfectly sums up the nastiness of people.

I was a nasty comment.
But perhaps no nastier than the feelings expressed by some arch Remainers that old people, as a demographic, should suffer greater hardship as a result of Brexit, due to how that portion of the electorate voted.
All sides can be prone to make nasty comments.

Absolutely. Of course it is easy to generalise and forget that eg some farmers did not vote for brexit but even those that did we should all hope do not suffer from hardship as a result of brexit (because that is more nose cutting to spite face stuff). Ultimately, any Remainer should be thinking that leave is such an irrational concept that the only reason anyone would vote for it is misinformation and therefore have some understanding of why those that voted for it did. The contempt should be reserved firmly for those that enabled this to happen; not those who voted for it.

But it is hard to think like that all the time when such needless damage to society is being done. I've said it before - nobody at all would have been the worse off had we voted to remain. Thousands of lives have already been ruined by Brexit and it hasn't even happened yet. That reason alone is enough to justify the idea that Brexit is a bad thing.

kingstongraham

This has been bothering me - surely saying out loud that the only reason you are keeping no deal on the table is to make sure you get a deal isn't a great tactic? The EU might hear.

kingstongraham

Heard two lamb and beef farmers on the radio this morning, one voted leave, one remain - both supporting Johnson's stance that he has to keep no deal as an option, both saying that no deal would cause carnage in their industry, both insisting that a deal was of vital importance.

rjsterry

Shirley Basso wrote:

While she inherited a poisoned chalice, you can't say she didn't do everything to get something over the line.

I think if I saw the man who had tried to undermine me and take my job for 3 years f*** it up at the first hurdle I might allow myself a wry smile or two.

Johnson has created a fair bit of backlash within his own ranks as well judging by the comments from MPs this morning. This is what happens when you hire a strategist who is more interested in his own ideas than his employer's and is just using the party for those ends.

coopster_the_1st

Johnson is delivering the view of the Conservative party, one sought via the democratic party mandate.

How the 21 rebels could be so far away from the views of their party only 2 months after that view was sought is beyond me? It's like they are working for another political party or institution. The action of ignoring their party has a consequence, one that they are now finding out!

bianchimoon

KingstonGraham wrote:

This has been bothering me - surely saying out loud that the only reason you are keeping no deal on the table is to make sure you get a deal isn't a great tactic? The EU might hear.

It is ridiculous logic.. unless he means it

Longshot

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Johnson is delivering the view of the Conservative party, one sought via the democratic party mandate.

How the 21 rebels could be so far away from the views of their party only 2 months after that view was sought is beyond me? It's like they are working for another political party or institution. The action of ignoring their party has a consequence, one that they are now finding out!

Out of interest, do you know how each of their constituencies (or at least as far as one can estimate) voted in the referendum? Perhaps they felt they were acting in the best interests of their constituents rather than their party? Weird idea, I appreciate.

surrey_commuter

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Johnson is delivering the view of the Conservative party, one sought via the democratic party mandate.

How the 21 rebels could be so far away from the views of their party only 2 months after that view was sought is beyond me? It's like they are working for another political party or institution. The action of ignoring their party has a consequence, one that they are now finding out!

Check out the manifesto - their views are closer.

It is a Momentum-esque takeover and true Conservatives should fight it.

These idelogical one issue tw@ts should attach themselves to a more appropriate party

fenix

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

cougie wrote:

And if Scotland leave the EU how long before they leave the Union ?

Quite soon I hope. Very much looking forward to seeing their kids paying for university education and running up huge debts like mine had to do. And don't get me started on free scripts and eyesight tests.

A remarkably vindictive attitude.

Yes. When I see my son in debt to the tune of over £45k before he's started earning I do feel slightly vindictive, when if he'd been Scottish and educated north of border it'd been just over 50% less debt.
Glad you're happy to subsidize with your tax dollars. I'm not.

Goo - you're looking like a bit of a tw@t - who knew?

Germany also has free Universities - why be angry at other countries instead of the actual government who are deciding to charge for study ? Weird attitude.

coopster_the_1st

Longshot wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Johnson is delivering the view of the Conservative party, one sought via the democratic party mandate.

How the 21 rebels could be so far away from the views of their party only 2 months after that view was sought is beyond me? It's like they are working for another political party or institution. The action of ignoring their party has a consequence, one that they are now finding out!

Out of interest, do you know how each of their constituencies (or at least as far as one can estimate) voted in the referendum? Perhaps they felt they were acting in the best interests of their constituents rather than their party? Weird idea, I appreciate.

MP's delegated the decision to the people so you lose on both your points.

Tough that the MP's don't like the outcome. They serve us, not the other way around!

imposter2.0

Coopster the 1st wrote:

MP's delegated the decision to the people so you lose on both your points.

Referred - not delegated. There's a clue in the name - 'referendum'

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Tough that the MP's don't like the outcome. They serve us, not the other way around!

MPs are representatives of their constituencies - not delegates. Either way, I'm enjoying watching you self-destruct. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks you will finally disappear up your own ar5e. Difficult for a bot, but worth a try...

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Tough that the MP's don't like the outcome. They serve us, not the other way around!

Representative democracy - tough you don't like the outcome!

(hint - about half the rebels are on what used to be your side a couple of years ago.)

Ben6899

Mr Goo wrote:

The Lib Dems have already put forward a 23 year old to stand for the New Forest West. Just graduated and just got his first job washing dishes and waiting tables in a hotel. Bless him.
Can't wait to give him a grilling at the hustings. Assuming his boss will let him have time off.

You'll probably get your ar$e handed to you on a plate, Goo.

coopster_the_1st

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Tough that the MP's don't like the outcome. They serve us, not the other way around!

Representative democracy - tough you don't like the outcome!

(hint - about half the rebels are on what used to be your side a couple of years ago.)

The rebels have never been on the leave side. They proved that again last night and will rightly no longer be able to mislead their constituents.

MP's are not representing the electorate by doing everything to overturn the result of the largest democratic vote in the UK's history.

imposter2.0

Coopster the 1st wrote:

The rebels have never been on the leave side. They proved that again last night and will rightly no longer be able to mislead their constituents.

Unless your name is John Redwood, obviously. A leaver 'representing' a constituency (Wokingham, look it up) which voted remain. I'm sure there are others..

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Tough that the MP's don't like the outcome. They serve us, not the other way around!

Representative democracy - tough you don't like the outcome!

(hint - about half the rebels are on what used to be your side a couple of years ago.)

The rebels have never been on the leave side. They proved that again last night and will rightly no longer be able to mislead their constituents.

MP's are not representing the electorate by doing everything to overturn the result of the largest democratic vote in the UK's history.

Somewhat undermined your theory that they are all just after the next paycheck, hasn't it.

hopkinb

Imposter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

MP's delegated the decision to the people so you lose on both your points.

Referred - not delegated. There's a clue in the name - 'referendum'

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Tough that the MP's don't like the outcome. They serve us, not the other way around!

MPs are representatives of their constituencies - not delegates. Either way, I'm enjoying watching you self-destruct. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks you will finally disappear up your own ar5e. Difficult for a bot, but worth a try...

This needs to be highlighted.

My constituency voted to remain in the EU. The sitting tory MP, Stephen Hammond, recognises the idiocy of pursuing a no deal brexit, and his voting pattern reflect this. He wishes to respect the result of the referendum, but does not wish for the nation's political and economic standing to be negatively impacted as a result. Hence the quote on his website.

"There are only three ways to avoid ‘No Deal’. Approve a deal, revoke Article 50, or extend Article 50. I am one of only eight MPs to have voted for all three of these options. I voted for the motion entitled ‘revocation instead of No Deal’, I have voted for extension twice, and for a deal three times."

He was one of last night's rebels who has had the whip withdrawn.

In almost all other respects I have no time for the man as he is something of an archetypal tory on social issues, and have never voted for him, but I have respect for how he has represented a remain constituency.

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Tough that the MP's don't like the outcome. They serve us, not the other way around!

Representative democracy - tough you don't like the outcome!

(hint - about half the rebels are on what used to be your side a couple of years ago.)

The rebels have never been on the leave side. They proved that again last night and will rightly no longer be able to mislead their constituents.

MP's are not representing the electorate by doing everything to overturn the result of the largest democratic vote in the UK's history.

Somewhat undermined your theory that they are all just after the next paycheck, hasn't it.

Not at all. Look how many MP's that will lose their seats, who are not going to vote for a GE. They are running scared of being removed from the gravy train!

darkhairedlord

Coopster the 1st wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Tough that the MP's don't like the outcome. They serve us, not the other way around!

Representative democracy - tough you don't like the outcome!

(hint - about half the rebels are on what used to be your side a couple of years ago.)

The rebels have never been on the leave side. They proved that again last night and will rightly no longer be able to mislead their constituents.

MP's are not representing the electorate by doing everything to overturn the result of the largest democratic vote in the UK's history.

Many of the rebels voted for Mays deal, Unlike most of the ERG.

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Somewhat undermined your theory that they are all just after the next paycheck, hasn't it.

Not at all. Look how many MP's that will lose their seats, who are not going to vote for a GE. They are running scared of being removed from the gravy train!

It's interesting that the insults and taunts are having no effect this time.

haydenm

Just back on the Scottish thing, as a generally 'No' voting Englishman living in Scotland it is embarrassing to see the level of debate in England about Scottish independence.