BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

tailwindhome

Coopster the 1st wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

The elephant trap was plainly too obvious but have the remoaners taken their eye off the ball and got caught in the bear trap

So...explain the trap

I can't but then I do not have the political legal brilliance of those in the Boris camp.

I can only speculate that it allows the Lords to send it back to the Commons(ping-pong)? (if it even gets debated in the Lords). Lords will deal with it on Friday, when the commons does not sit.

However, we'll only know its political or legal significance when John Bercow finally works it out and he spontaneously combusts

You're a gem

bompington

Coopster the 1st wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

The elephant trap was plainly too obvious but have the remoaners taken their eye off the ball and got caught in the bear trap

So...explain the trap

I can't ... I do not have ... brilliance

Seriously, this is now what gets you going? The idea that the superhuman Cummings is somehow going to outmanoeuvre everyone so cleverly (after all, I've seen him on TV! He's that Sherlock bloke you know!) that your beloved no deal brexit happens just like that? At which point you presumably sponataneously self-combust with happiness.

I suppose it might. But, like most people who haven't checked their brains out a long time ago, I suspect that his voodoo powers have been somewhat exaggerated.

rjsterry

TailWindHome wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

The elephant trap was plainly too obvious but have the remoaners taken their eye off the ball and got caught in the bear trap

So...explain the trap

May's been looking very pleased with herself the last day or so. Has she been very sneaky indeed?

darkhairedlord

rjsterry wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

The elephant trap was plainly too obvious but have the remoaners taken their eye off the ball and got caught in the bear trap

So...explain the trap

May's been looking very pleased with herself the last day or so. Has she been very sneaky indeed?

The very real threat of no-deal isn't to push the eu, it's to push parliament into adopting May's deal.

surrey_commuter

Anybody remember what was in the kinnock proposal?

I can’t help but think Coopster is going to be disappointed

verylonglegs

So Boris is done already then? A spectacular blow up in his first week of real work?

verylonglegs

Rick Chasey wrote:

What still doesn't make sense to me was why the original soft Brexit - leaving the political union but staying in the economic union - which was what was campaigned on by leave during the ref, satisfies the result, and is a middle ground for those MPs who want to 'respect the vote' but are worried about the economic cost.

Even the drawback - "no seat at the table" was discussed, and it would never have needed something like the backstop.

It boggles my mind why this was not pursued.

If that was put on the table tomorrow you'd have a majority in parliament and a not-so-onerous deal with the EU done within a month.

Norway, basically, possibly plus.

It then leaves it entirely open to future gov'ts to decide how much integration they want to have with the single market.

Saw this earlier and meant to reply. Agree with pretty much all of it, it should have been nailed down and signed off within months then we could have all put it behind us. The ERG and Farage would still have had something to moan about but no real traction.

tailwindhome

Jessica Elgot tweeted earlier this evening that a group within the Tories were refusing to vote against the amendment.

tailwindhome

Boris wins his first vote as PM - doesn't get the required 2/3.

There's a metaphor

tailwindhome

If I remember correctly Cameron's Tories were going nowhere until Brown backed away from calling a GE.

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Anybody remember what was in the kinnock proposal?

I can’t help but think Coopster is going to be disappointed

Just the requirement to debate and vote on the version of May's deal that was worked up during the cross party negotiations, but never put in front of parliament. They're not obliged to do anything beyond that, but the obvious implication is that if it does well in the non-binding vote it could then be co-opted as The Deal. Kinnock has been pushing it for a while so nothing fishy there but someone might be trying to save the Conservative party from Johnson. I have an image of the No tellers inexplicably locked in the toilets .

darkhairedlord

TailWindHome wrote:

Jessica Elgot tweeted earlier this evening that a group within the Tories were refusing to vote against the amendment.

If they hadn't removed the tellers they have to remove the whip from another 50 mps. Or something like that. Johnson humiliated on day one and day two by his own party. He might be done by the weekend, looks hopelessly prepared for the job.

TheBigBean

Filibusters are winnning in the Lords, so expect lots of talk about terrible unelected peers.

Looks like GE may be a negotiated compromise.

tailwindhome

I think I'd die laughing if the prorogation of Parliament meant there wasn't enough time for a vonc

TheBigBean

TailWindHome wrote:

I think I'd die laughing if the prorogation of Parliament meant there wasn't enough time for a vonc

From a remain point of a view, a VONC risks a general election in November, so is a reasonable thing to oppose. I struggle to understand the reason for opposing the 15th Oct general election other than a fear of losing, or a fear of winning.

darkhairedlord

TheBigBean wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I think I'd die laughing if the prorogation of Parliament meant there wasn't enough time for a vonc

From a remain point of a view, a VONC risks a general election in November, so is a reasonable thing to oppose. I struggle to understand the reason for opposing the 15th Oct general election other than a fear of losing, or a fear of winning.

Vonc, 3month single issue pm to get Norway deal agreed and done. GE.
No one wants a johnson called election as absolutely no one trusts him to not let the date slide.

tailwindhome

There are issues around the PMs ability to change the election date but I believe the calculation is that forcing Boris to go to the country having already reneged on his pledge to leave on the 31st October do or die holes the Conservatives below the waterline.

TheBigBean

darkhairedlord wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I think I'd die laughing if the prorogation of Parliament meant there wasn't enough time for a vonc

From a remain point of a view, a VONC risks a general election in November, so is a reasonable thing to oppose. I struggle to understand the reason for opposing the 15th Oct general election other than a fear of losing, or a fear of winning.

Vonc, 3month single issue pm to get Norway deal agreed and done. GE.
No one wants a johnson called election as absolutely no one trusts him to not let the date slide.

That's what they say, but I don't really believe them. Meanwhile, they have done 8 of over 100 amendments in the Lords.

morstar

darkhairedlord wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I think I'd die laughing if the prorogation of Parliament meant there wasn't enough time for a vonc

From a remain point of a view, a VONC risks a general election in November, so is a reasonable thing to oppose. I struggle to understand the reason for opposing the 15th Oct general election other than a fear of losing, or a fear of winning.

Vonc, 3month single issue pm to get Norway deal agreed and done. GE.
No one wants a johnson called election as absolutely no one trusts him to not let the date slide.

This.

I don't see the week as a complete disaster for Boris though. He has laid the foundations for blame he wanted all along.
Nobody is negotiating or proposing anything as that isn't the plan. The plan is to shore up his narrative of man of Brexit against a remain parliament. Winning the GE is the primary agenda. If anything, he would prefer a GE before Brexit as then it happens early in the next parliamentary session and 5 years for the dust to settle on whatever Brexit brings before another election.
The election is not without risk for him but he clearly fancies his chances.

cycleclinic

Mr goo is being optimistic I think with end game.

Begining of the end game possibly maybe but possibly not.

sungod

surely that should be... it is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning

rick_chasey

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Anybody remember what was in the kinnock proposal?

I can’t help but think Coopster is going to be disappointed

He wanted a Brexit vote in order to force more favourable membership terms of the EU and don’t you forget it.

rick_chasey

thecycleclinic wrote:

Mr goo is being optimistic I think with end game.

Begining of the end game possibly maybe but possibly not.

Well given this is only the withdrawal.

The EU just isn’t going to disappear. A lot of lives and livelihoods in the U.K. are dependent on the continent.

TheBigBean

Agreement reached in the Lords at 2am. Strong denials it involves an election, so what was agreed?

rick_chasey

I can only assume the arts guys were given 15 minutes to mock that one up.

tailwindhome

Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
·
7h
The election is being deferred because the anti no dealers, suddenly and unexpectedly working together harmoniously, now have a stable parliamentary majority to do with as they like. Cummings’ expulsion of Tories has solidified it. It suits them to keep the govt trapped.


Democratically, constitutionally that is pretty questionable. But it’s happened because of his own constitutional indiscretion, his hurriedness to prorogue. Without that, none of this would have happened. The premiership he for so long coveted, is for now, a perfect prison.

ballysmate

Rick Chasey wrote:

I can only assume the arts guys were given 15 minutes to mock that one up.

Is that a chicken or a c0ck?

tailwindhome

Farage is going to eat Boris' lunch in an election.

rick_chasey

Ballysmate wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I can only assume the arts guys were given 15 minutes to mock that one up.

Is that a chicken or a c0ck?

It is a bit odd

In two days Johnson lost his majority live on TV, fired 23 MPs, became the first PM in history to lose his first three commons votes and now he has to sit there completely powerless until the other parties give him permission to have an election.

UK press:
CORBYN IS A CHICKEN

shirley_basso

While the sun may be the best selling paper, I don’t think it’s a mouthpiece for the uk press