Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

bendertherobot

Origami02 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Welll I'm not sure what took the biggest prick yesterday, the tyre or my ego

Having said that, the tyre did go down nice and slowly rather than with a bang and was easy to change - the sealant forming an excellent, if inneundo laden, lubricant. The only problem is that I'd appeared to have forgotten how to use my mini pump, and that the tyre took a while to seat on the rim properly which led to a km or so of wobbly riding.

Anyone got any tip on mending the tyre so I can run it tubeless again? It really isnt that big a hole, I suspect whatever caused it (and the tyre around the whole was quite cut up so I suspect it was pretty big) must have gone in and fallen out which is what allowed most of the air to leak out

Any chance of a picture showing the hole size as ,price aside, I'm a definite tubeless-maybe and follow this thread with interest. So actually seeing up to what point(size hole) the latex will seal a hole would be extremely useful information for me and anyone else in the community who's considering the TL route.
Thanks in advance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11nNNgzzbig

Origami02

Thanks for the video, much appreciated.
My bad, perhaps my phrasing was not the best. What I meant was that seeing the hole size at which the sealant fails to seal the hole,i.e. as in ddravers case above would be useful. I don't think anybody doubts that holes within a certain size range will seal successfully.

ddraver

way smaller than that nail which is why I suspect something got stuck in the tyre. I was nearly knocked off by a prat of an MX rider so had to slam the brakes on on a bit of road with a load of gravel on it so is supect that that drive whatever it was into the tyre

meanredspider

My top tip for getting tyres onto pacenti SL23s is to get the tyre on as far as you can (this may not even be necessary) then stick the lot in the top of the airing cupboard. Earlier this afternoon I started trying to fit a Rubino Pro and inner and quickly realised it was going to be incredibly tough. Stuck the whole lot in the airing cupboard for a couple of hours and it took me 2 mins to persuade the lot on (even with that "generously-sized" SS tape). It may only be necessary to cook the tyre.

ETA - not only does heat make the rubber more flexible, the coefficient of expansion of rubber is nearly 4x that of aluminium.

Origami02

Pre-stretching new tyres overnight on a normal clincher rim helps too They're never as tight second time around.

munkster

Sorry to bring this thread back on topic but what's the current place for Schwalbe One 25mm tubeless tyres please? :-) Bike24 only has 23mm by the looks of it...

...also, does anyone know of a "definitive" list of road tubeless tyres? I get the impression there's few enough of them that this list wouldn't stretch to too many pages.

dazz_ni45

I eventually got my Schwalbe One's fitted to my Pacenti SL23 rims yesterday. Wasn't easy and had to resort to levers for the final bit, but was much easier than fitting the non-tubeless One's to the same rim.

Quick question, they went down by about 5ish psi last night (pumped up to 95). Is this is sign they are not sealed properly or is that as expected? I didn't get the chance to take them out for a ride when I'd finished last night so I'm not sure if that will help them.

I'm currently 80kg and was intending running them at about 85psi?

menthel

Ugo, any news when the new SL23's will be available? I fancy trying tubeless on the blingy soot bike and the archetypes won't be up to it. Unless I go Reynolds soot wheels with some Schwalbe One's.

ugo.santalucia

dazz_ni45 wrote:

I eventually got my Schwalbe One's fitted to my Pacenti SL23 rims yesterday. Wasn't easy and had to resort to levers for the final bit, but was much easier than fitting the non-tubeless One's to the same rim.

Quick question, they went down by about 5ish psi last night (pumped up to 95). Is this is sign they are not sealed properly or is that as expected? I didn't get the chance to take them out for a ride when I'd finished last night so I'm not sure if that will help them.

I'm currently 80kg and was intending running them at about 85psi?

5 PSI in one night is perfectly normal...

Besides, 5 PSI is well within the margin of error of your pump and you do lose a couple of PSI just by fitting the pump head

Origami02

menthel wrote:

Ugo, any news when the new SL23's will be available? I fancy trying tubeless on the blingy soot bike and the archetypes won't be up to it. Unless I go Reynolds soot wheels with some Schwalbe One's.

Apparently these are already in the country. The importer, Evolution imports , are currently sold out and waiting for the next batch. Best bet is to phone around and see which wheel builders/ retailers still have some.
Cycleclinic, JRA and Strada Wheels are worth a try.

ugo.santalucia

menthel wrote:

Ugo, any news when the new SL23's will be available? I fancy trying tubeless on the blingy soot bike and the archetypes won't be up to it. Unless I go Reynolds soot wheels with some Schwalbe One's.

I would expect JRA to be the first to stock them, as they always are... I can ask Jon if you want, I know him quite well...

Reynolds? Are you not too slow for those?

menthel

ugo.santalucia wrote:

menthel wrote:

Ugo, any news when the new SL23's will be available? I fancy trying tubeless on the blingy soot bike and the archetypes won't be up to it. Unless I go Reynolds soot wheels with some Schwalbe One's.

I would expect JRA to be the first to stock them, as they always are... I can ask Jon if you want, I know him quite well...

Reynolds? Are you not too slow for those?

Almost certainly! But having ridden a pair of 2014s they were bloody awesome, better than the kysriums that came with the soot bike. Shame I couldn't really spring for them at the time, even if it would be a completely tarty move well beyond my skill set.

If finding out from JRA is no great hassle that would be lovely. A set of something lightish and tubeless would be great, especially having heard good things about the schwalbe tyres (and that Steve Abraham was doing the year record tubeless until his coming together with a moped).

ugo.santalucia

menthel wrote:

If finding out from JRA is no great hassle that would be lovely. A set of something lightish and tubeless would be great, especially having heard good things about the schwalbe tyres (and that Steve Abraham was doing the year record tubeless until his coming together with a moped).

Sorry to hear that... what a shame!

I am currently testing the IRC Roadlite for a review, which are just as awesome with a sprinkle of added grip... impossible to find at the moment, but things are going to change, as they have landed in Europe and the Euro price is not too prohibitive, given the strength of the pound (which might not last if people vote UKIP... :? )

I will ask Jon re. the Pacenti

drlodge

menthel wrote:

A set of something lightish and tubeless would be great, especially having heard good things about the schwalbe tyres (and that Steve Abraham was doing the year record tubeless until his coming together with a moped).

Did you see my post? viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=13026946

Light and tubeless, built by Ugo, bl**dy awsome.

ugo.santalucia

For the new Pacenti, Jon says beginning of June

menthel

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For the new Pacenti, Jon says beginning of June

Oh dear, just in time for my bonus to arrive...

ugo.santalucia

menthel wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For the new Pacenti, Jon says beginning of June

Oh dear, just in time for my bonus to arrive...

I thought you were a doctor, not a banker... :?

menthel

ugo.santalucia wrote:

menthel wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For the new Pacenti, Jon says beginning of June

Oh dear, just in time for my bonus to arrive...

I thought you were a doctor, not a banker... :?

Even worse, a Civil Servant (trained as a doctor)- the cause of all of the problems in the country!

Origami02

munkster wrote:

...also, does anyone know of a "definitive" list of road tubeless tyres? I get the impression there's few enough of them that this list wouldn't stretch to too many pages.

There's a list/table of who makes them here http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... ess-44186/

Quite an interesting article too.

munkster

but what's the current place for Schwalbe One 25mm tubeless tyres please? :-) Bike24 only has 23mm by the looks of it...

Found some - HiBike have them in 25mm if anyone is looking ;-)

bendertherobot

There are some interesting points in the bike radar article. Though I'm not sure why Conti want to inflate a tyre to 240psi.

The consensus, it seems, is that the current market is in CX, MTB and higher than 28 road use. A few make 25c or lower, of course. The demand is predicted from the 28c+ market.

That's interesting because, very soon, unless you're racing etc, you're going to find that your sportive disc bike will take 28c. And you'll try them, and not come back. And that's the market. The bigger tyre. And some manufacturers will be left behind.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

That's interesting because, very soon, unless you're racing etc, you're going to find that your sportive disc bike will take 28c. And you'll try them, and not come back. And that's the market. The bigger tyre. And some manufacturers will be left behind.

From the article it appears Vittoria and Conti are only concerned about aspects which in my opinion are less relevant.
Light weight and low rolling resistance are mirrors for fools when you are talking 1-2 Watt and 50 grams difference... the real innovation is safety. They don't seem to acknowledge clinchers are not safe tyres to run at high speed, which is the reason tubular tyres, with their pre-hystoric construction, still exist on the market and are used by those who make a living out of racing on a bicycle.
What tubeless bring is an added level of safety.

Also the pressure issue, they don't seem to acknowledge that the all point is to reduce the running pressure to within safe numbers and still get a performing tyre, while the Conti blurb about tyres being able to withstand pressures exceeding the rim's strength is again a mirror for fools, who pumps their tyres over 120 PSI these days?

Origami02

I agree that the main market is probably going to be in the 28c and over sizes.

UgoSantalucia wrote:

Light weight and low rolling resistance are mirrors for fools when you are talking 1-2 Watt and 50 grams difference...

I agree with this also , which why it makes no sense to me whatsoever that Schwalbe appear to be leaving the excellent puncture protection layer from the One clincher out of the One TL simply for rolling resistance and weight vanity. Surely to be seen as having a real puncture benefit over the Clincher, the TL version should have an equally pierce resistant carcass plus the ability to seal punctures. Otherwise, some of the time the TL is, by definition, simply spraying latex to seal punctures that the clincher would not of succumbed to in the first place. It's bit like one guy digging a hole in a cricket pitch just so a second guy can be gainfully employed filling it in.

Tom Anhalt wrote:

It wasn't until I questioned the Schwalbe rep at the following Interbike did I learn that Schwalbe eliminates the under-tread puncture barrier on their tubeless models since they figure the user will be running sealant. In other words, the nominally equivalent tubeless and clincher models from the same manufacturer are not necessarily constructed equivalently in regards to things which effect rolling resistance."

Several reviews have noted how effective the "V Guard" pierce protection of the One Clincher is,so this omission for the sake of better rolling resistance figures for the TL version makes no sense at all. Surely it makes more sense to stop the punctures you can stop AND seal the ones that you can't.
So if I bought TL Ones and came back from a ride thinking "well that was great : 2 punctures and they both sealed!",,,As I wiped the latex off the bike I'd also be thinking "ah, hang on a minute, would they have happened at all with the One clincher?"
I'm not saying they don't work, I'm saying why degrade their puncture efficiency by removing the V Gaurd for the sake of a few grams and some largely irrelevant marginal gains in rolling resistance figures. It makes it very hard to assess what real puncture benefit they give over the Clincher One.
I thought the article gave a very balanced view and is well worth a read http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... ess-44186/

drlodge

I might be able to shed a different perspective on the Schwalbe One TL based on my last ride, granted its the 1 and only ride I've done on tubeless (and on new wheels) so my experience might be a case of placebo effect.

The tyres seemed to be much more efficient and effortless than the Michelin Pro4 SC that I had previously. Whether this is down purely to lower rolling resistance I don't know, but my impression is that these tyres rock. Adding the puncture protection layer may well reduce this performance and as Ugo has found out, all his punctures have sealed so it would seem an additional belt is not needed. Therefore I might suggest that the decision to leave the protection layer out of these tyres is a good call since the vast majority of the punctures will seal and the absence of the belt improves performance.

Origami02

To be fair, delighted as you clearly are with your new hoops, what you're saying is very subjective. The article is well worth a read. I must admit though, I do love shiney new stuff too.

lostboysaint

Origami02 wrote:

To be fair, delighted as you clearly are with your new hoops, what you're saying is very subjective. The article is well worth a read.

And what you're saying isn't? Especially with your lack of experience.

Origami02

What I'm saying is based on the guy who tested the tyres. So no, not subjective on my part at all. Of course he could be wrong.
Hence why I posted the link so folk can read the article an reach their own conclusions. At the end of the day what people chose to spend their money on is a decision for themselves to make.

drlodge

What I am saying is based on my expereince and perception, so yes entirely subjective and not scientific at all. So just like 99.999% of articles on this forum

Origami02

drlodge wrote:

What I am saying is based on my expereince and perception, so yes entirely subjective and not scientific at all. So just like 99.999% of articles on this forum

That's fine but bear in mind this:

Ugo,SantLucia wrote:

Light weight and low rolling resistance are mirrors for fools when you are talking 1-2 Watt and 50 grams difference.

doesn't concur with this

drlodge wrote:

Therefore I might suggest that the decision to leave the protection layer out of these tyres is a good call since the vast majority of the punctures will seal and the absence of the belt improves performance.

I'm really not here to argue, only to share information from the article as I see it. Sharing information is kind of what I think Forums are for. Everyone must decide for themselves whether they agree with said information or not. If you want to in-essence say "that article is a stupid head" , that's your prerogative.

lostboysaint

Origami02 wrote:

What I'm saying is based on the guy who tested the tyres. So no, not subjective on my part at all. Of course he could be wrong.
Hence why I posted the link so folk can read the article an reach their own conclusions. At the end of the day what people chose to spend their money on is a decision for themselves to make.

So you're taking someone else's subjective opinions based on tests that they carried out which may or may not be relevant in the real world and quoting them as fact. That makes them not subjective in any respect and your reporting as fully accurate. As opposed to the people who have actually ridden tubeless, continue to ride tubeless.

And you think that you're not being subjective