Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

ugo.santalucia

ddraver wrote:

...the XN would be perfect but it's not sodding TNT :evil:

I've done Paris-Roubax with a pair of XN made tubeless... good enough?

ddraver

oh ok, what do you reckon max pressure would be for them?

Edit - Mind you I ve just seen that Schwalbe's Sammy Slick is a sort of "Tubeless Possible" in the LiteSkin version, I guess they'd be as likely to seal on UST rims as any other sort of rim....

ugo.santalucia

ddraver wrote:

oh ok, what do you reckon max pressure would be for them?

60 PSI is fine... if you ride off road drop it to 40

meanredspider

Looking for something for the boy's CR1 - are the Hutchinsons generally more robust? One of the big attractions of tubeless is their puncture resistance - given his dodgy leg - and I'd like to maximise the advantage. He's very light at around 53kg so I'd probably go 23c (not sure on the clearance of 25c on the Scott either). Is there a preferred vendor? Thx.

Origami02

I've got some wheels now that allow the option of tubeless, and I may well try TL at some point in the lifetime of these wheels. For me though the clue, as to one of the reasons, why I don't at the moment is in the title of this thread : "...how much? " While I can get a set of 25mm Conti Grand Prix(tyres that last very well ime) for £36 and lightweight tubes for £1.99 each , spending £30 a tyre plus the cost of sealant and valves just doesn't appeal.
One of the much vaunted benefits of tubeless is that you can run lower pressures, hence better grip and comfort. Well with a wider rim (23-24mm) you can get the same benefits with conventional tubed tyre by dint of the larger tyre air volume and better tyre profile that said rims bring. Bearing in mind that, given the same pressure in both, a tubeless is likely to feel harsher than a clincher-(on wide rims), due to it's stiffer side-walls, I can't see a TL benefit there. I only ride on the road and so don't use a low enough pressure for TL to be advantageous.
I have several wheelsets and bikes, and often have occasion to swop a tyre(s) between wheels. Five minute job with clinchers, with tubeless I'd probably not bother.
Obviously this is only my personal perspective, and for others they may well be just the job. For CX 'riders, mountain bikers and anyone who likes to explore gravel paths with 28c or over they're possibly ideal.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

Looking for something for the boy's CR1 - are the Hutchinsons generally more robust? One of the big attractions of tubeless is their puncture resistance - given his dodgy leg - and I'd like to maximise the advantage. He's very light at around 53kg so I'd probably go 23c (not sure on the clearance of 25c on the Scott either). Is there a preferred vendor? Thx.

I have not tried the Hutch, but people who have swear by the Sector, if you want something more robust, that doesn't cut easily. The French Acycles seems to have the best price for those. Don't think they come as 23 mm though.

The way sealant works is that it fixes small punctures (classic slow ones) instantly, while it takes the pressure to drop to around 60 PSI before the bigger ones seal...at 60 PSI you can still ride very well. If you want, once the seal is formed, you can top up the pressure, but IMO the least you mess with them, the better they work.

ddraver

These have all been answered many times but just cos I'm bored...

Origami02 wrote:

I've got some wheels now that allow the option of tubeless, and I may well try TL at some point in the lifetime of these wheels. For me though the clue, as to one of the reasons, why I don't at the moment is in the title of this thread : "...how much? " While I can get a set of 25mm Conti Grand Prix(tyres that last very well ime) for £36 and lightweight tubes for £1.99 each , spending £30 a tyre plus the cost of sealant and valves just doesn't appeal.

There are no cheap TLR tyres (yet), but the Schwalbe One's I got were the same price as the non TL ones. A bottle of schwalbe sealant costs the same as one tube so i save there and the valves came with the wheels - but they re hardly expensive and nor do they puncture. If you re using high performance tyres, I just don't see your argument there.

Origami02 wrote:

One of the much vaunted benefits of tubeless is that you can run lower pressures, hence better grip and comfort. Well with a wider rim (23-24mm) you can get the same benefits with conventional tubed tyre by dint of the larger tyre air volume and better tyre profile that said rims bring. Bearing in mind that, given the same pressure in both, a tubeless is likely to feel harsher than a clincher-(on wide rims), due to it's stiffer side-walls, I can't see a TL benefit there. I only ride on the road and so don't use a low enough pressure for TL to be advantageous.

You remove the potential of pinch flatting with Tubeless, which on less good (i.e. UK) roads is a common problem when running low pressures. Also you protect against flint or thorn punctures. In fact, you remove the source of pretty much any normal road puncture. The only time you re tyre will go flat is in extreme cases where, in my experience, you'd kill any sort of tyre and would be limping home praying your inner tube didnt hernia

Origami02 wrote:

I have several wheelsets and bikes, and often have occasion to swop a tyre(s) between wheels. Five minute job with clinchers, with tubeless I'd probably not bother.
Obviously this is only my personal perspective, and for others they may well be just the job. For CX 'riders, mountain bikers and anyone who likes to explore gravel paths with 28c or over they're possibly ideal.

Well ok, but i don't ever really swap tyres between wheels (not 100% sure why you need to on a road bike), I suspect that I'm not alone there

Origami02

Origami02 wrote:

Obviously this is only my personal perspective, and for others they may well be just the job. .

I find Conti Grand Prix to be fine for my needs. They're hardly a budget tyre, they just happen to be readily available for just over half the price of some TL , as do many other performance clinchers if you shop around. As I said, when TL are cheaper I may well try them.

bendertherobot

Origami02 wrote:

Origami02 wrote:

Obviously this is only my personal perspective, and for others they may well be just the job. .

I find Conti Grand Prix to be fine for my needs. They're hardly a budget tyre, they just happen to be readily available for just over half the price of some TL , as do many other performance clinchers if you shop around. As I said, when TL are cheaper I may well try them.

Cheaper than what? I paid £60 delivered for 2 Schwalbe One tubeless. Same as GP4000IIS twin pack from Merlin cycles.

Yes, I've invested in 2 valves and some sealant. But that investment offsets tube costs, CO2 cartridges etc.

Whilst I'm still riding with a tool kit for punctures I don't REALLY need it.

I'm very impressed so far with how good they roll (better IMO than the non tubeless). Next week I have back to back 100 milers. Looking forward to it very much on these.

Origami02

bendertherobot wrote:

Cheaper than what?

Origami02 wrote:

While I can get a set of 25mm Conti Grand Prix(tyres that last very well ime) for £36 and lightweight tubes for £1.99 each , spending £30 a tyre plus the cost of sealant and valves just doesn't appeal.

Cheaper than £12 per tyre more than the one's I already use and rate highly. As I said before, it's only my perspective. I wouldn't pay £60 for the normal clinchers that you mention from Merlin either. I don't think I'm saying this means tubeless is a bad decision, merely that it's one of the reasons why I'm not convinced to buy them .
I don't think this is a "right" or "wrong" situation, it's simply a personal choice situation.

bendertherobot

I can get tyres from PX for a fiver. It's not really the best tubeless v tubed argument winner

Origami02

I don't see it as an argument, it's a choice.

bendertherobot

Origami02 wrote:

I do see it as an argument, it's a choice.

But of course. At the moment the market is limited, hence the higher prices. It's also difficult to buy in the UK as cheaply as Germany, for example.

I think it's almost certainly the way ahead though. In many ways it's arguably more important for the future than discs. Bear in mind cars have done this since the 40's.

The tubleess market at the moment is in the premium sector. If you choose wisely you can get the same premium tyre (such as the One) for more or less the same price as the tubed equivalent. That makes it an easy choice.

ugo.santalucia

For tubeless yes Vs tubeless no discussions, please use this thread

viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13025140&p=19564719&hilit=tubeless#p19564719

The current one wants to be a place where "tubeless yes-minded people" come to find where to get the tyres or report experience with tyres and/or retailers

Tubeless-no arguments are off topic here

drlodge

Well here's a first shot of my new tubeless wheels, taken last night before it got really dark. Chain and cassette now fitted (!) but not sure when I will get a chance to ride them. I think they look really nice, well proportioned and make the bike look more sporty ;-)

Can anyone spot the deliberate mistake the wheel builder made? You'll have to look quite carefully!

Hubs & Skewers: Hope Mono RS (gun metal)
Rims: DT Swiss RR440, with asymmetric on the rear
Spokes front: 20 x CX-Ray radial lacing
Spokes rear: 28 Sapim D-light NDS and DT Alpine III DS, 3x lacing
Tyres: Schwalbe One tubeless

meanredspider

Thanks, Ugo.

Has anybody tried larger sizes of Hutch on a CR1?

rowlers

Just in the process of converting my Archtypes to tubeless with Vittoria hyper voyagers.
I'm guessing there must be a tip/trick to getting the tyres to initially inflate, becasue can I f*** get it up (ooo er...!
I've got a floor pump and have tried Co2.
Soaped the rims, anything else I could try?
Last option Compressor?
thanks all

bendertherobot

rowlers wrote:

Just in the process of converting my Archtypes to tubeless with Vittoria hyper voyagers.
I'm guessing there must be a tip/trick to getting the tyres to initially inflate, becasue can I f*** get it up (ooo er...!
I've got a floor pump and have tried Co2.
Soaped the rims, anything else I could try?
Last option Compressor?
thanks all

How are they seated? Try to move all the beads to as close to the hook as you can.

rowlers

bendertherobot wrote:

rowlers wrote:

Just in the process of converting my Archtypes to tubeless with Vittoria hyper voyagers.
I'm guessing there must be a tip/trick to getting the tyres to initially inflate, becasue can I f*** get it up (ooo er...!
I've got a floor pump and have tried Co2.
Soaped the rims, anything else I could try?
Last option Compressor?
thanks all

How are they seated? Try to move all the beads to as close to the hook as you can.

They are sitting pretty close to the hook as far as I can tell - I've been right around the tyre trying to seat it....

rowlers

rowlers wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

rowlers wrote:

Just in the process of converting my Archtypes to tubeless with Vittoria hyper voyagers.
I'm guessing there must be a tip/trick to getting the tyres to initially inflate, becasue can I f*** get it up (ooo er...!
I've got a floor pump and have tried Co2.
Soaped the rims, anything else I could try?
Last option Compressor?
thanks all

How are they seated? Try to move all the beads to as close to the hook as you can.

They are sitting pretty close to the hook as far as I can tell - I've been right around the tyre trying to seat it....

Well, another co2 and they went up, but immediately back down, tubes are much easier!
(be better if I had proper tubeless tyres granted!)

rowlers

rowlers wrote:

rowlers wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

rowlers wrote:

Just in the process of converting my Archtypes to tubeless with Vittoria hyper voyagers.
I'm guessing there must be a tip/trick to getting the tyres to initially inflate, becasue can I f*** get it up (ooo er...!
I've got a floor pump and have tried Co2.
Soaped the rims, anything else I could try?
Last option Compressor?
thanks all

How are they seated? Try to move all the beads to as close to the hook as you can.

They are sitting pretty close to the hook as far as I can tell - I've been right around the tyre trying to seat it....

Well, another co2 and they went up, but immediately back down, tubes are much easier!
(be better if I had proper tubeless tyres granted!)

Feck this, 4 hours of faffing with tubeless vs 5 mins with a tube.
My little foray into tubeless is over!

bendertherobot

What you have done though is taught us whether the Hyper Voyager are any good for this. And that's good because I have them on my commuter and wanted to consider them.

We can't rule out operator error of course But that's a shame. What rim tape are you using? I take it the deflation was immediate as in lots of air escaping rather than just a slow deflation?

rowlers

bendertherobot wrote:

What you have done though is taught us whether the Hyper Voyager are any good for this. And that's good because I have them on my commuter and wanted to consider them.

We can't rule out operator error of course But that's a shame. What rim tape are you using? I take it the deflation was immediate as in lots of air escaping rather than just a slow deflation?

Yeah I suppose some one had to try it with them!

Rim tape was the 3m cross weave as has been recommended and used successfully on here...

I've never tried it before so, I could have done something wrong but....
The air just leaking through the bead, it is obviously too loose a tyre to get a seal...

ugo.santalucia

rowlers wrote:

Just in the process of converting my Archtypes to tubeless with Vittoria hyper voyagers.
I'm guessing there must be a tip/trick to getting the tyres to initially inflate, becasue can I f*** get it up (ooo er...!
I've got a floor pump and have tried Co2.
Soaped the rims, anything else I could try?
Last option Compressor?
thanks all

Your problem is that you are not using a tubeless rim, hence things get more difficult...

rowlers

Yeah I know that, but also know that many others have successfully converted Archtypes. It was worth a go, I've only lost £20 or so and I've got the parts for my next attempt

DKay

rowlers wrote:

Yeah I know that, but also know that many others have successfully converted Archtypes. It was worth a go, I've only lost £20 or so and I've got the parts for my next attempt

The difference is, we're using proper tubeless tyres with converted Achetypes.

drlodge

Yeh proper tubeless, like these

ddraver

Welll I'm not sure what took the biggest prick yesterday, the tyre or my ego

Having said that, the tyre did go down nice and slowly rather than with a bang and was easy to change - the sealant forming an excellent, if inneundo laden, lubricant. The only problem is that I'd appeared to have forgotten how to use my mini pump, and that the tyre took a while to seat on the rim properly which led to a km or so of wobbly riding.

Anyone got any tip on mending the tyre so I can run it tubeless again? It really isnt that big a hole, I suspect whatever caused it (and the tyre around the whole was quite cut up so I suspect it was pretty big) must have gone in and fallen out which is what allowed most of the air to leak out

ugo.santalucia

ddraver wrote:

Welll I'm not sure what took the biggest prick yesterday, the tyre or my ego

Having said that, the tyre did go down nice and slowly rather than with a bang and was easy to change - the sealant forming an excellent, if inneundo laden, lubricant. The only problem is that I'd appeared to have forgotten how to use my mini pump, and that the tyre took a while to seat on the rim properly which led to a km or so of wobbly riding.

Anyone got any tip on mending the tyre so I can run it tubeless again? It really isnt that big a hole, I suspect whatever caused it (and the tyre around the whole was quite cut up so I suspect it was pretty big) must have gone in and fallen out which is what allowed most of the air to leak out

You need a tubeless patch

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/velo ... lsrc=aw.ds

Origami02

ddraver wrote:

Welll I'm not sure what took the biggest prick yesterday, the tyre or my ego

Having said that, the tyre did go down nice and slowly rather than with a bang and was easy to change - the sealant forming an excellent, if inneundo laden, lubricant. The only problem is that I'd appeared to have forgotten how to use my mini pump, and that the tyre took a while to seat on the rim properly which led to a km or so of wobbly riding.

Anyone got any tip on mending the tyre so I can run it tubeless again? It really isnt that big a hole, I suspect whatever caused it (and the tyre around the whole was quite cut up so I suspect it was pretty big) must have gone in and fallen out which is what allowed most of the air to leak out

Any chance of a picture showing the hole size as ,price aside, I'm a definite tubeless-maybe and follow this thread with interest. So actually seeing up to what point(size hole) the latex will seal a hole would be extremely useful information for me and anyone else in the community who's considering the TL route.
Thanks in advance.