Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

Barrington12

thecycleclinic wrote:

How is the sharp stone supposed to know the tyre was new. If it went through a roadlite it would have gone through a schwalbe one. Punctures are bad luck pure and simple. You have the same chance if a puncture at mile 10 as at mile 1000 assuming the tyre has not worn. So the tyre being new has nothing to do with how likely you are to puncture. The probability and the tool it use, the sharp stone does not know or care.

Use soapy water to allow the movement of slack around the rim then use tyre levers. It's a one person job and a quick one . I have yet to have a puncture that can't be fixed by tyre worms. Therefore no need to remove the tyre at the road side.

If worms can't seal the hole long term them remove to patch that however is not the first thing you do.

The only holes that reopen that have been plugged previously are the ones that were boaderline to begin with. In this stick a tyre worm in.

You guys just make a simple technology alot harder than it need be.

Thanks for the reply Malcolm.
I agree (obviously) that a piece of flint does not have preferences over which tyres it is going to pierce. I disagree that a tyre with 10 miles on it has the same chance of a puncture as a tyre with 1000 miles on it, I think the 1000 mile tyre will always be worn and more vulnerable to a puncture, ie, the same stone in the same situation will damage a worn tyre more easily than it would an unworn tyre.
Like pgmabley (see post above) I sometimes feel that I am damaging the tyre more by trying to insert a worm but I guess it would be easier to try this first before resorting to using an internal patch.
Difficult to tell in text sometimes (haha, actually not that difficult in this case) but I think I can detect that you are tired, possibly justified, of having to keep repeating the same advice and info? I was simply giving my feedback on my weekend experience with new tyres and new wheels and asking opinion, definitely not criticising your tyres or the tubeless system as a whole.

cycleclinic

strictly speaking the chance of a puncture at mile 10 is the same at mile 1000. measure the thread depth of a IRC at 1000 miles it has hardly changed. If this was a corsa speed the the chance has changed for the worse.

cycleclinic

trust me on this inserting a worm is not going to make matters worse. if the tyre goes flat at 10 pm in the dark 90 miles from home are you really going to try and fit a tube as your first resort? I have been in that position and stuck a worm in, then found out I needed a fatter one so I stuck that in instead problem solved (i did not have a tube). the tyre a few hundred miles later now need patching (it was a big cut) but that's o.k I got home!

There is no tone in my repsonse at all. I mean it when i say you are making it harder than it needs to be. Simple solutions are the best. As the bead stretches on tyres, even tubeless tyres removing them to patch is opening a can of worms best avoided until you absoluletly have too.

worms dont need curing, they are not glue. you inflate to pressure that the worm can hold. if you find it blowing at 60 psi drop the pressure push it back in and leave it be. you can sort it later at home.

cycleclinic

This should work for fixing tubeless tyres at home without removing the tyre.

https://www.marinescene.co.uk/product/1 ... gKPBvD_BwE

I'm going to give it a go with that badly cut roadlite. I like simple solutions.

ugo.santalucia

I haven't bothered fitting tubeless on my road bike this year.

I am frustrated that 4 years on there is zero improvement. Still very few tyres on the market, still available in limited sizes, still out of stock most of the time, still as expensive as they were 4 years ago. I find myself still having to buy tyres when I don't need them and not finding anything at a decent price when I do.
I was hoping tubeless would become mainstream, but it's still very niche. A pair of Durano clinchers that I bought for 38 quid did an excellent job of getting me through the winter and through all the spring long Audaxes free of punctures... I struggle to see past them, at the moment.

timothyw

I think until Continental start doing tubeless road tyres it'll remain niche.

Most people just buy/recommend whatever continental sell. A GP4000 tubeless option could drive a lot of uptake.

But yeah, rolling resistance differences are marginal, punctures aren't actually that big a problem for most people day to day, so when the price is considerably more there's little incentive to run tubeless.

imafatman

TimothyW wrote:

punctures aren't actually that big a problem for most people day to day

Certainly not for the people that are comfortable with tubeless. 7000km and never had to change a tube at the road side, nor use a pump.

It's perhaps more expensive and more hassle to setup, one you find a good combination of wheel, tyre and sealant it's a dream.

TimothyW wrote:

I think until Continental start doing tubeless road tyres it'll remain niche.

Most people just buy/recommend whatever continental sell. A GP4000 tubeless option could drive a lot of uptake.

"most people" are also clueless about maintaining their bikes and changing a tube is about as far as they dare try, i suspect some of them also take their bikes to the shop to change tubes out.

In which case, tubeless is never going to become mainstream for them because it's simply too much hassle.

Reggieboy

Hear hear

N0bodyOfTheGoat

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I haven't bothered fitting tubeless on my road bike this year.

I am frustrated that 4 years on there is zero improvement. Still very few tyres on the market, still available in limited sizes, still out of stock most of the time, still as expensive as they were 4 years ago. I find myself still having to buy tyres when I don't need them and not finding anything at a decent price when I do.
I was hoping tubeless would become mainstream, but it's still very niche. A pair of Durano clinchers that I bought for 38 quid did an excellent job of getting me through the winter and through all the spring long Audaxes free of punctures... I struggle to see past them, at the moment.

Besides the Continental factor already mentioned, I think the other thing that needs to change to make tubeless more mainstream is for a lot more new off-the-peg bikes to be sold with tubeless all set up.

I've yet to try tubeless after being curious for a few years, increasingly so after getting a series of fairy visits last month on my commute on various tyres front and back (new route is faster, but passed a spot where there was a huge pile of glass shards for 7+ days).

If I hadn't spent ~£60 on my first pair of GP4000s and some latex tubes two weeks ago, I probably would have paid Hunt to install a tubeless setup on my new, yet to be ridden wheels.

moonshine

My new Cervelo C3 comes with Mavic Askium Allroad disk clinchers with 28mm Continental Grand Sport Race tyres - not the best wheel set in the world and i may get a Wheelsmith hand built tubeless wheelset in the future.... but for the moment, I want to run a tubeless setup on the stock rims if possible.

I've converted my MTB to tubeless, but ive not converted road wheels to tubeless and have read they are more difficult / risky because of the higher pressures involved.
the question is will i be able to (and what do i need to) safety convert the Askium Allroad wheels to tubeless?

i understand the Askiums are not mavic "UST" rims, but i'm struggling to find any data on the Askium Allroad rim on the mavic site

re. tubeless tyres, any thoughts on the 30mm Yksion Elite Allroad? https://shop.mavic.com/en-gb/yksion-eli ... &1035=3501

so i'll need....

* 44mm tubeless valves...
* tubeless tape? (what brand, length and width)
* best sealant? (i've normally used Stans on the MTB, but reading on here seems to recommend Orange Seal)
* tyres - will the stock Contis work tubeless or will i need a tubeless specific tyre such as the 30mm Yksion Elite Allroad linked to above?

orlok

so you need....

* 44mm tubeless valves...Schwalbe.!
* tubeless tape? (what brand, length and width) ......Schwalbe tubeless tape 23mm and you need only one layer.!
* best sealant? (i've normally used Stans on the MTB, but reading on here seems to recommend Orange Seal) .....Schwalbe Doc Blue.!
* tyres - ......Schwalbe Pro One 25mm

moonshine

@Orlock
Thanks for suggestions. I'll look at the 28mm version

MisterMuncher

If they aren't UST rims, they're only really designed for standard clinchers. You may well be able to get tubeless tyres on and inflated, but I really wouldn't recommend it. MTB is different with the lower air pressures involved, but with road wheels it can be a very quick and cheap way to get yourself into the wonderful world of dental surgery.

moonshine

@MisterMuncher,
I'm aware of this and That is why I am asking the question

cycleclinic

It's hit and miss on non tubeless rims. I have a set of my borg50c non tubeless rims (an early set) running tubeless. It works on these rims but it won't on some others. Personally buy new wheels and do it right. I don't think we should recommend bodges that we don't know will even work.

moonshine

@thecycleclinic
noted and probably the medium term plan. it won't be an issue to run tubed in the short term - more interested in the possibilities going forward.
i've emailed Mavic for their opinion - its a bit odd the Askuim Allroad disk Cl wheels don't appear on the mavic website at all....

MisterMuncher

OEM kit. There's a lot of it about.

paulmon

Decided to put my alps wheels on today in prep for my trip next month. They are DT Swiss PR1400 dicut with GP 4000 II tyres which had done no more than 400 miles. I inflated the front tyre and at around 90psi it deflated very quickly. On inspection it looks like the bead has started to separate from the sidewall and the tube found a way out. Turns out this is more common that it should be so I'm making the leap to tubeless. I'm familiar with the technology having run it on my MTB and Gravel bike so hopefully wont have the learning curve issues that others have faced. The biggest problem I have had is deciding which tyres. I've read through this and other threads and decided to go with the Maxxis 28mm Padrone which should hopefully arrive tomorrow. I run Maxxis tyres on both my MTB and Gravel bike and they are superb so I'm hoping these will be the same. I'll keep the thread updated with progress and issues.

arsey

PaulMon wrote:

Decided to put my alps wheels on today in prep for my trip next month. They are DT Swiss PR1400 dicut with GP 4000 II tyres which had done no more than 400 miles. I inflated the front tyre and at around 90psi it deflated very quickly. On inspection it looks like the bead has started to separate from the sidewall and the tube found a way out. Turns out this is more common that it should be so I'm making the leap to tubeless. I'm familiar with the technology having run it on my MTB and Gravel bike so hopefully wont have the learning curve issues that others have faced. The biggest problem I have had is deciding which tyres. I've read through this and other threads and decided to go with the Maxxis 28mm Padrone which should hopefully arrive tomorrow. I run Maxxis tyres on both my MTB and Gravel bike and they are superb so I'm hoping these will be the same. I'll keep the thread updated with progress and issues.

Good luck! What sealant have you gone for?

paulmon

Arsey wrote:

PaulMon wrote:

Decided to put my alps wheels on today in prep for my trip next month. They are DT Swiss PR1400 dicut with GP 4000 II tyres which had done no more than 400 miles. I inflated the front tyre and at around 90psi it deflated very quickly. On inspection it looks like the bead has started to separate from the sidewall and the tube found a way out. Turns out this is more common that it should be so I'm making the leap to tubeless. I'm familiar with the technology having run it on my MTB and Gravel bike so hopefully wont have the learning curve issues that others have faced. The biggest problem I have had is deciding which tyres. I've read through this and other threads and decided to go with the Maxxis 28mm Padrone which should hopefully arrive tomorrow. I run Maxxis tyres on both my MTB and Gravel bike and they are superb so I'm hoping these will be the same. I'll keep the thread updated with progress and issues.

Good luck! What sealant have you gone for?

I've got both Stans which I'd been using in my MTB but also have Effetto Mariposa Caffelatex which I've got in my gravel bike. I'll probably go with the Caffelatex in these.

lincolndave

Morning lads, any one tried the maxxis pardone tr carbon dual compound ss tyres yet?
I am looking to change the 28 mm schwalbe ones,although I am more than happy with the schwalbes I just wondered what the maxxis are like
Thanks Dave

ugo.santalucia

Maxxis Padrone are my favourite tubeless tyres. They tick all the boxes.
I have a pair of 25 still in their box that I haven't managed to fit this year and now it's a bit too late to fit them as they won't wear before winter and I don't want to use expensive tyres in winter.

Anyway... if you are happy with 25, I can sell the pair for 60 quid including postage.

lincolndave

Hi Ugo, I have 28 s on one bike for a bit more comfort on longer rides, but thanks for the offer
Obviously they wear very well then ?, the roads around Lincolnshire are shocking, I suppose like the rest of the country, I have read a few good reports about the maxxis , but it’s best for an honest comment off cyclists who use them on a regular basis, cheers

ugo.santalucia

They wear at a normal rate

sloppyschleckonds

I'd rate the Padrones better than the Pro-Ones especially in the damp/ wet

paulmon

So I finally managed to get the Maxxis Padrones mounted and sealed but it took over two hours and I was close to throwing in the towel. I bought the 28mm versions and they weigh 310g compared to the combined weight of 295g for my GP4000 ii (25mm) + latex tube.

The tyres went onto the rim with no trouble which was good news however they would not seal. I have a blast pump and had to remove the valve core to get both tyres sealed. The rear wouldn't even seal after multiple attempts. Even using soapy water to lube the bead didn't work. In the end I used neat washing up liquid around the bead. Neither tyre made the distinctive pings when sealed which threw me initially.

My DT Swiss rims came with tubeless tape fitted and their own valves and whilst the tape appeared to be OK when I finally got the tyres sealed both leaked through the spokes so I put a layer of electrical tape over the top of the DT Swiss tape and that solved that problem. I've put some sealant in the front and inflated it to 80psi but I'm going to wait overnight before doing the rear to make sure its sealed properly.

Inflated the tyres measure around 30mm at the widest point but there is still plenty of clearance on my bike (Bianchi Infinito CV)

paulmon

Had a nightmare yesterday with these tyres. Came home and both tyres were still fully inflated which was great news. All I needed to do was put some sealant in the rear and then I'd be able to get out on the bike. I released the air from the tyre and annoyingly the bead broke away from the rim. I put 30ml of sealant in the tyre and tried to inflate it but it point blank refused to seal. I removed the tyre and what was left of the sealant and started from the beginning, but the tyre would just keep leaking air around the bead at the same point. No amount of washing up liquid was going to work. I even took the wheel to Kwik fit to borrow their compressor and it did the same.

I decided to re tape the wheel but noone local had any 21mm Stans tape so I used Gorilla tape and finally managed to get the tyre inflated and stay inflated. I left the tyre for a couple of hours with 90psi and then deflated the tyre so I could put some sealant in via the valve core. Once again as soon as the tyre deflated the bead popped. This time however I managed to get the tyre inflated after 2 or 3 attempts and when I checked this morning it was still fully inflated so I'm now good to go, two days after I started.

The problem I now have is I'm going to have to carry spare tubes because if I get a flat there is absolutley no way that I am going to be able to repair/re-inflate/seal because I fully expect the bead to pop which means I'll need to put a tube in. This is something I've not experienced with MTB tyres which almost always stay sealed. The tyres on my gravel bike behave the same. If they deflate fully then the bead pops.

I just hope the tyres are worth the effort.

svetty

PaulMon wrote:

Had a nightmare yesterday with these tyres. Came home and both tyres were still fully inflated which was great news. All I needed to do was put some sealant in the rear and then I'd be able to get out on the bike. I released the air from the tyre and annoyingly the bead broke away from the rim. I put 30ml of sealant in the tyre and tried to inflate it but it point blank refused to seal. I removed the tyre and what was left of the sealant and started from the beginning, but the tyre would just keep leaking air around the bead at the same point. No amount of washing up liquid was going to work. I even took the wheel to Kwik fit to borrow their compressor and it did the same.

I decided to re tape the wheel but noone local had any 21mm Stans tape so I used Gorilla tape and finally managed to get the tyre inflated and stay inflated. I left the tyre for a couple of hours with 90psi and then deflated the tyre so I could put some sealant in via the valve core. Once again as soon as the tyre deflated the bead popped. This time however I managed to get the tyre inflated after 2 or 3 attempts and when I checked this morning it was still fully inflated so I'm now good to go, two days after I started.

The problem I now have is I'm going to have to carry spare tubes because if I get a flat there is absolutley no way that I am going to be able to repair/re-inflate/seal because I fully expect the bead to pop which means I'll need to put a tube in. This is something I've not experienced with MTB tyres which almost always stay sealed. The tyres on my gravel bike behave the same. If they deflate fully then the bead pops.

I just hope the tyres are worth the effort.

Ah, the joys of tubeless......

sloppyschleckonds

And I'm not quite sure way this is the fault of the tyre manufacturer.....

christimson

Sounds like you just need another layer of tape to stop the tyre popping off. That's what I found with the pro ones on my Prime rims.

I think it does depend on the wheels as they are clearly not all the same.