Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

pgmabley

I moved from Stan's to Caffelatex a while back which seems good.

The rear tyre had a large hole from glass about a month ago that sealed but would not hold pressure in warm weather it would blow again. I booted it internally which has failed, should have just wormed it but the tyre is all but gone anyway.

arsey

My worm repair to the front has failed a week after I fitted it. The tyre was deflated this morning. Topped it up with air but it just came out of the worm hole. I thought this was meant to be a permanent solution?

bob_c

I like the look of the IRC roadlites but they seem to only be available in 25mm and my rims are 23mm internal (kinlin, from the cycle clinic). Would the 25s work on these rims? I heard they tend to measure up quite wide.
Alternatively what would the closest equivalent in 28mm be?

cattytown

Might be worth dropping Malcolm a note - he does have 23s in sometimes.

P.

bob_c

Sorry, I meant that 23mm internal rims were probably too wide for 25mm tyres. I thought maybe 28mm tyres would be the minimum that would fit properly

timothyw

I don't think Kinlin do rims with a 23mm internal width? Not for road anyway?

The XR31t and XR22t are both 19mm internal width. You might be looking at the external measurement....

bob_c

No, I know the internal (23mm) and external (28mm) dimensions.
I am using the Kinlin TL-23 rims on a gravel bike - probably not strictly a road rim though. I
have been using gravel king SK 32mm set up tubeless
at about 40psi for the past few months and would like to switch to some 28s and am looking at tubeless options. At the moment I have some Grand Prix GT 28mm on there which work well but are not tubeless.

azzurri78

bob_c wrote:

No, I know the internal (23mm) and external (28mm) dimensions.
I am using the Kinlin TL-23 rims on a gravel bike - probably not strictly a road rim though. I
have been using gravel king SK 32mm set up tubeless
at about 40psi for the past few months and would like to switch to some 28s and am looking at tubeless options. At the moment I have some Grand Prix GT 28mm on there which work well but are not tubeless.

How were the Gravelking SK’s to set up? I’ve got 32mm’s too but I didn’t think they were tlc?

bob_c

azzurri78 wrote:

How were the Gravelking SK’s to set up? I’ve got 32mm’s too but I didn’t think they were tlc?

Panaracer have said in the past that they are ok below 60 psi tubeless.
They were pretty easy to set up. I used 2 layers of tubeless tape then fitted an inner tube to shape the tyre. I then removed the inner tube - leaving one side of the bead locked onto the rim - and inflated with a track pump. Then I added a bit of orange seal sealant, left overnight then tried them out!
I have been using them for 4 months and around 1000 miles with no issues. I took them off the other day and most of the sealant was still left.

cycleclinic

25mm roadlites are going to be stretched on this rim. They will mount seat and seal and be 29mm wide or so which is just wide enough. Personally, I would not do it but I would use a 32mm tyre or wider.

what is relvenant as always is the real width not what printed on the sidewall. Can we ignore that from now on and simply think about bead to bead distance, thats how to compare tyres.

with IRC there is the new Boken or Serrac CX sand both of which are good on the road. Of course, other brands are available. Schwalbe Marathon supreme's might be a good choice.

The 23mm roadlite sells so slowly it is not worth me buying more. The 23mm formula pro tyres are too small to even think about stocking them. Beside the air volume on small tubeless tyres means a puncture leaves you flat quickly. this is not good.

cycleclinic

arsey use a wider worm and or glue it in place. If the worm cant seal the hole then that when you patch or replace the tyre.

drlodge

thecycleclinic wrote:

The 23mm roadlite sells so slowly it is not worth me buying more.

Argh! I'm not sure the 25s will fit on my Rourke, will have to check - the rear brake bridge is really close to the tyre. I assume I should have at least 2mm clearance for the 25s to stand a chance of fitting?

On the bright side, I do have 2 new 23c roadlites in stock.

cycleclinic

The 25mm formula pro tyres are the same size as the 23mm roadlite well slightly bigger but not by much. thats the other reason i dont bother.
23mm roadlites can be got fairly quickly from europe if they are in stock there.

pgmabley

I was very pleased with the IRC Roadlite until this happened on a descent this morning, not sure what caused it as couldn't find the culprit on the road or in the tyre, pretty much instant flat. The tyre has done one 10 mile TT on a circuit and two 22 mile commutes and is obviously now a write off.

cycleclinic

that could happen to any tyre. You have hit something sharp and it did it's thing.

You might be able to fix that to limp home with a couple of fat worms and glue. Pretty terminal though.

On the lotus test track 3 years ago I hit something that put a 3cm gash in my tubeless tyre. I never found what it was, I nver felt it either, possibly a piece of very sharp piece carbon fibre from a lotus.

drlodge

As TCC says, just bad luck.

timothyw

Yeah. It's pretty much why I don't like to spend more than £20 on a tyre right there - bad luck and it's a write off, unfortunately.

cycleclinic

that means then you are always buying cheap rubber and you get what you pay for.

On my car (worthless 80's gas guzzler) I will happily spend £125 per tyre even more because they are good tyres. They can be destroyed quickly. I once spend £500 on tyres on an old 528i to have the engine self destruct the following week. I still buy the same tyres though on every car. You either like good tyres or you dont care.

pgmabley

I appreciate that could have happened to any tyre at any time, didn't intend to be negative about the tyre itself, just was frustrated that I paid for a good tyre to improve cut resistance and ironically get a terminal cut almost immediately!

I put a tube in there with a business card I had in my wallet to stop it protruding through the tyre, that got me to work no problem, was only a couple of miles away.

I do believe in good rubber and you get what you pay for so will be ordering a new one!

orlok

pgmabley wrote:

I was very pleased with the IRC Roadlite until this happened on a descent this morning, not sure what caused it as couldn't find the culprit on the road or in the tyre, pretty much instant flat. The tyre has done one 10 mile TT on a circuit and two 22 mile commutes and is obviously now a write off.

Be happy you where still on the bike and not like me and it wasn't a descent.! https://www.strava.com/activities/1513797850

cycleclinic

You should also he able to ride the tyre flat without it unseating. If your careful you it won't damage the Tim. If your careful that is.

timothyw

thecycleclinic wrote:

that means then you are always buying cheap rubber and you get what you pay for.

Well, it mainly means that I always keep an eye out for fire sales... I concede that the IRC tyres might well be better than the Fusion Pro 5 TL I'm running, but they'd have to be pretty bloody superb to be worth nearly three times what I paid for the Hutch tyres.

pgmabley

thecycleclinic wrote:

You should also he able to ride the tyre flat without it unseating. If your careful you it won't damage the Tim. If your careful that is.

I did ride to the bottom of the hill about 0.5 mile on it slowly no problem to a safe place to stop, didn't unseat so pretty good there. Not like my other non tubeless wheelset that blew out in a pothole which resulted in tyre rolling off rim which touched tarmac and resulted in a decent amount of road rash!

cycleclinic

Ouch.

pgmabley

Has anyone else experienced a puncture that's sealed previously blowing again when the weather is hot? It's happened to me twice now with larger holes.

Both occasions were with caffelatex on pro one tyres. Once the bike was just sitting outside a shop in the sun and the other was yesterday whilst riding, the puncture had occurred originally about 2 weeks ago.

Barrington12

Yes, I’ve had the same experience, holes that had seemingly sealed well opening up at a later date. Quite annoying and puts doubt in my mind for future rides so I now tend to use internal repair patches once I’m home after any sealant escape incidents.
Bought 2 x IRC Roadlite tyres from Malcolm last week and my observations so far.....
Pretty tough to fit the tyres to Mavic UST rims, required the use of my wife’s thumbs to hold bead while I levered the final lip over the rim. Took ages and I cannot imagine dealing with this at the roadside if ever the need arose.
Inflation was absolute simplicity, probably I guess due to the tight fit?
Cycled yesterday, small stone embedded in tyre after 45km, caused (refreshing) spray of Orange sealant on my shins and tyre sealed pretty quickly. But it wasn’t a big stone, it wasn’t a sharp stone and I’m surprised it punctured the new tyre.
I had great experience with Schwalbe Ones for maybe 6000km and then used Pro Ones which proved pretty fragile and I was hoping the Roadlites would be better. Have I just been a bit unlucky do you think?

pgmabley

Both these punctures I'm talking about were in pro ones. I had the terminal issue with a new roadlite but that was extreme cut and unlucky, just ordered another roadlite to replace the remaining pro one so will be on two new roadlites this week and see how it goes.

cycleclinic

How is the sharp stone supposed to know the tyre was new. If it went through a roadlite it would have gone through a schwalbe one. Punctures are bad luck pure and simple. You have the same chance if a puncture at mile 10 as at mile 1000 assuming the tyre has not worn. So the tyre being new has nothing to do with how likely you are to puncture. The probability and the tool it uses, the sharp stone does not know or care.

The roadlite is much like the schwalbe one with more wet grip and a butyl lining. There is no puncture protection though. It is simply the thickness of the casing that is the protection. If you want puncture protection and tubeless then the IRC Formula Pro X guard is one of the few tubeless road tyres that has that. The others that springs to mind is the Hutchinson sector and the new good year eagle. Still waiting for these to test.

Use soapy water to allow the movement of slack around the rim then use tyre levers. It's a one person job and a quick one . I have yet to have a puncture that can't be fixed by tyre worms. Therefore no need to remove the tyre at the road side.

If worms can't seal the hole long term them remove to patch that however is not the first thing you do.

The only holes that reopen that have been plugged previously are the ones that were boaderline to begin with. In this stick a tyre worm in.

You guys just make a simple technology alot harder than it need be.

pgmabley

Malcolm, I understand what your saying, not sure whether you were directing some or all of your points to me also?

I'm experienced and happy with tubeless in cx/mtb (up to 40psi) but new to the road side of things and still getting used to it. I feel I'm on the verge of being confident enough with it now with the longer distance Audax riding (600km coming up I'd like to use them on).

Aplologies in advance for these questions but with regard to the worms, would you ride at low pressure for a while until they have 'cured' or should they take pressure straight away because I've had the one I put in (1.5mm) push back out with the tyre set at 80psi with the sealant in the tyre once it was ridden (warm day). I was able to carry on riding once the tyre had sealed without any further intervention with just loss of air and sealant (it had dropped to around 40psi when I checked at home later).

Once home, I tried a bigger worm (3mm) which seemed like I was causing more damage to the tyre and looked like a minor bulge once I'd got it in, this again would only take 80psi before leaking air (had no sealant in tyre this time as doing it on the bench.

Is there a technique to it, I usually twist it as I put it in, then withdraw the tool straight. Watched your youtube and it seems they should stay in.

drlodge

Malcolm adds some super glue/gel to the worm once in, may be there's a reason he does that...