Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?
Comments
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I like stans - note that a lot of the other sealants are actually Stans in different bottles...
Make sure the valves have removable cores. This seems so obvious that surely every company would so it but Shimano don't for example...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Okay, so bitten the bullet and have a pair of Sector 28s coming, to fit to my Pacenti SL23s.
Anyone want to recommend valves and sealant? Is it Stans all the way?
Cool. You'll have the same setup as me. I've just used Stan's 21mm tape (couldn't find any tesa tape in that width), and stans 44mm valves. I'm using Bontrager sealant, but you could go with Hutchinson's own, as sealing is a little slow for me at the moment (see above).Shand Skinnymalinky
Argon 18 Radon0 -
I haven't used Bontrager. I was going to but read some reviews that it was very thin and didn't seal that well (some reviews are very favourable though). I went with the standard Stans in the end.0 -
I haven't used Bontrager. I was going to but read some reviews that it was very thin and didn't seal that well (some reviews are very favourable though). I went with the standard Stans in the end.
It is thin... but I don't have much to compare against.Shand Skinnymalinky
Argon 18 Radon0 -
Okay, so bitten the bullet and have a pair of Sector 28s coming, to fit to my Pacenti SL23s.
Anyone want to recommend valves and sealant? Is it Stans all the way?
Cool. You'll have the same setup as me. I've just used Stan's 21mm tape (couldn't find any tesa tape in that width), and stans 44mm valves. I'm using Bontrager sealant, but you could go with Hutchinson's own, as sealing is a little slow for me at the moment (see above).
Great, thanks. The stans 21mm tape is already installed for my tubes, so that's a start
Let's see how I get on!0 -
Depends... some tyres/rims seal without latex, some do require latex. However, once you put the sealant in and you spin the wheels, the bubbling should stop pretty much immediately. Looks like there is something wrong there...
It's leaking about 5-10 psi over a couple of hours (from 100 psi)
Tubeless tyres should lose about 5 - 10psi over a couple of days, not hours. My bet is that the valve isn't screwed tight enough or not seated right.0 -
Depends... some tyres/rims seal without latex, some do require latex. However, once you put the sealant in and you spin the wheels, the bubbling should stop pretty much immediately. Looks like there is something wrong there...
It's leaking about 5-10 psi over a couple of hours (from 100 psi)
Tubeless tyres should lose about 5 - 10psi over a couple of days, not hours. My bet is that the valve isn't screwed tight enough or not seated right.
Important to note that this was during the initial 24hr sealant period that Hutchinson advise about. Valve was screwed up as tight as I could get it.
An update:
Tires have held pressure overnight, minimal foaming at the bead now. Interesting point is that there is some foam coming from the tyre wall, which suggests to me that the tyre is actually very slightly porous in places (manufacturing tolerances and the like) and does indeed require sealant for use as Hutchinson specify. As other people have mentioned above, the Bontrager sealant is a bit thin (it is a synthetic sealant), and I hypothesise that due to this reason, it is finding every tiny little gap in the bead or tyre wall that it can, and is slowly sealing it, as opposed to gunking it up as a thicker sealant may do. Did a lap of Richmond park last night and everything seemed fine.
So, I guess what I've observed may just be a consequence of the sealant I've used, as opposed to the Hutchinson sealant that is recommended for use. Thoughts?Shand Skinnymalinky
Argon 18 Radon0 -
Agreed - I found the first setup of tubeless is fraught with issues. But once you sort out what works, stick with it.0
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So. I've now installed the Sector 28 / SL23 combo.
I'm happy to report that so far it has been the most pleasurable tyre fitting experience I have had with the pacenti. Compared with the tubed tyres I've used (Vredestien Senso - tough to fit, Panaracer D evo 2 - not much easier!) It has been a breeze!
I used the Bontrager sealant, I put a decent amount more than the recommended into the tyre. This may have helped with the original sealing, it bubbled for a bit but has stopped now and seems to be keeping air nicely over the last couple of hours.
I won't be able to ride properly until next week, but can't wait! 0 -
So. I've now installed the Sector 28 / SL23 combo.
I'm happy to report that so far it has been the most pleasurable tyre fitting experience I have had with the pacenti. Compared with the tubed tyres I've used (Vredestien Senso - tough to fit, Panaracer D evo 2 - not much easier!) It has been a breeze!
I used the Bontrager sealant, I put a decent amount more than the recommended into the tyre. This may have helped with the original sealing, it bubbled for a bit but has stopped now and seems to be keeping air nicely over the last couple of hours.
I won't be able to ride properly until next week, but can't wait!
Cool. Glad to hear it worked out for you. I have to admit, it was a lot easier than previous tyres I've fitted on those rims.
I just did the RideLondon on them, and everything seemed fine. They do still bubble a little for me, actually through the tyre wall, but the pressure seems to be holding.Shand Skinnymalinky
Argon 18 Radon0 -
So. I've now installed the Sector 28 / SL23 combo.
I'm happy to report that so far it has been the most pleasurable tyre fitting experience I have had with the pacenti. Compared with the tubed tyres I've used (Vredestien Senso - tough to fit, Panaracer D evo 2 - not much easier!) It has been a breeze!
I used the Bontrager sealant, I put a decent amount more than the recommended into the tyre. This may have helped with the original sealing, it bubbled for a bit but has stopped now and seems to be keeping air nicely over the last couple of hours.
I won't be able to ride properly until next week, but can't wait!
Cool. Glad to hear it worked out for you. I have to admit, it was a lot easier than previous tyres I've fitted on those rims.
I just did the RideLondon on them, and everything seemed fine. They do still bubble a little for me, actually through the tyre wall, but the pressure seems to be holding.
Completing the Ride London is a big thumbs-up I would say! Congrats.0 -
I've got no idea why sealant should be permeating through the actual tyre. Doesn't sound right to me?
It does seem odd to me too. I've read on other forums that some people have had the same issue with the Hutchinson Sector 28.Shand Skinnymalinky
Argon 18 Radon0 -
My Schwalbe One tubeless are now about 800ish miles old and I had my first puncture a few days ago. Put some more sealant in roadside and got me home but there leaking a bit. On inspection theres maybe a 4-5mm X shaped gash which must be slightly too large for the sealant to plug fully. What can I do? Clean out all the sealant add a tyre boot over the gash internally or is the tyre just a write off?0
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I would clean it it out and just stick a regular tube patch on the inside of the tyre. See if that sorts it. I would think you'd only need to use a permanent 'boot' if the tyre deforms there when it's inflated again with the patch in place.0
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Just recounted the story to guy in my local bike shop. He has the Ones' and no punctures in 3k miles of commuting so far. A rep brought in a set of the pro version for him to try. Same commute as he uses the Ones' but 2 punctures within 300 miles of use the latter more of a rip that required a small boot makes him wary of using them except at weekends on country runs. Luck plays a huge part of course.
If it says PRO, it's quite clearly not a commuting tyre. Much lighter product, much easier to damage
I have a different experience: I'm using the Schwalbe Pro One's of approx 1600km now (roads in Holland, Belgium, France, tarmac, gravel, etc) and they're performing well. Where I had a lot of small cuts and damages with the One's, the Pro One's are still round and no cuts what so ever.0 -
My One's are cut up pretty badly after only 800 miles (and 250 of that was in the Alps), I suspect I'll be replacing with something more robust next time. Need something that's the equivalent of a GP400S2 but tubeless.0
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First few miles on the Sectors, oh my word I'm in love... They are rather special.0
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My One's are cut up pretty badly after only 800 miles (and 250 of that was in the Alps), I suspect I'll be replacing with something more robust next time. Need something that's the equivalent of a GP400S2 but tubeless.
I have the same experience with the one's although probably something to do with the crappy weather we have had and the amount of flint/stones on the road. Any recommendations for a slightly more "robust" tyre0 -
Just recounted the story to guy in my local bike shop. He has the Ones' and no punctures in 3k miles of commuting so far. A rep brought in a set of the pro version for him to try. Same commute as he uses the Ones' but 2 punctures within 300 miles of use the latter more of a rip that required a small boot makes him wary of using them except at weekends on country runs. Luck plays a huge part of course.
If it says PRO, it's quite clearly not a commuting tyre. Much lighter product, much easier to damage
I have a different experience: I'm using the Schwalbe Pro One's of approx 1600km now (roads in Holland, Belgium, France, tarmac, gravel, etc) and they're performing well. Where I had a lot of small cuts and damages with the One's, the Pro One's are still round and no cuts what so ever.
Where can you buy Pro One tubeless?0 -
Just recounted the story to guy in my local bike shop. He has the Ones' and no punctures in 3k miles of commuting so far. A rep brought in a set of the pro version for him to try. Same commute as he uses the Ones' but 2 punctures within 300 miles of use the latter more of a rip that required a small boot makes him wary of using them except at weekends on country runs. Luck plays a huge part of course.
If it says PRO, it's quite clearly not a commuting tyre. Much lighter product, much easier to damage
I have a different experience: I'm using the Schwalbe Pro One's of approx 1600km now (roads in Holland, Belgium, France, tarmac, gravel, etc) and they're performing well. Where I had a lot of small cuts and damages with the One's, the Pro One's are still round and no cuts what so ever.
Where can you buy Pro One tubeless?
Not yet. I guess they passed the testing period and they're scheduled for this fall.0 -
Just over 700 mile on my Schwalbe One 23mm's now, so far they've been ok but I haven't noticed any big differences compared to tubed tyres. No punctures so far which is good but upon inspection of the tyres I haven't found anything that has pierced them and been fixed by the sealant.
In terms of feel they don't seem to add anything in terms of comfort and if there is an improvement in rolling resistance its a very small one. I have tried running them at various pressures right down to 70f/80r but this gave a squirmy feel when cornering hard. Been mostly running them at 90f/100r (I'm ~70kg), dropped them down a bit for a crit with cobbles in it (maybe ended up at 80f/90r) and they still felt super harsh - although it's the first (and probably last) time I've raced on cobbles and obviously 23mm tyres aren't the best option in that situation anyway! At 90f/100r they corner well although I've not ridden them in anger in the wet and they just maybe spin up a bit quicker than my previous tyres.
In terms of fitting they were a bastard to mount - they certainly weren't going on without tyre levers - but inflated first time with a bit of sealant in. Not looking forward to the possibility of having to do roadside repairs though! Using the Shimano valves with the non-removable core that came with the Ultegra wheels but I imagine the tyres will be worn out by the time the sealant needs replacing so that shouldn't be an issue.
Will hopefully run them until the end of the season and then consider my options for next year - might end up going down the tub route for racing but await further reviews and opinions on the Pro One as an option.0 -
I have now ridden 500 miles on my 28mm Ones including London Paris in attrocious conditions and a week of Col ascending and descending in the French Alps. Surfaces around Bourg St Maurice were generally good but not surprisingly the higher one rode the worse they got, broken, rutted and lots of debris, mostly stones. I developed a kink in the rear rim of my hunt 4 seasons on only the first day and the 2 local shops I tried wouldn't touch it. I was advised either not to ride them or to drop the pressure so I ran the front at 70 psi and rear at 65psi. This made for a noticeably smooth ride and if I lost any speed to low pressures on the climbs I cannot say it worried me. I doubt I did though besting my times from 3 yrs ago. Descending for a wuss descender like me and especially with disc brakes, was a joy, fast, smooth even on the more rutted and loose sections, the tyres holding traction . 2 more punctures though, on the front, both I think from sharp stones/flints. I didn't notice either until I topped up the pressure after a few days. The first revealed itself with sealant coming through and settled down as the pressure eased. The second was visible as a layer of dried sealant around a hole and I only noticed because I inspected the tyre. I have no idea if either occurred while ascending or descending. Assuming a clincher tyre would also have punctured I am glad I didn't have to get off and fix them!0
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Managed to convert the Voyager Hyper 37 to tubeless. The problem was to sit them on the ramps of the rim, as they are loose fit and there was no way of pumping them up. So I have used the inner tube technique... once the tyre is seated, you only unseat one side to remove the inner tube, fit a valve and inflate... much easier... now let's see if it holds air once sealed...
left the forum March 20230 -
Ok, I've had my Hutchinson Sector 28s installed for a while and made some changes. In summary, these tyres are installed onto Pacenti SL23 (MK1) rims, internal width 18.5mm. Firstly I have used 21mm Stan's tape after following some guidance I found elsewhere. I used Bontrager TLR sealant.
Upon installation of the tyres, there was foaming of sealant at the bead. This settled down, but slight leaking at the bead persisted for all the time that I have used them. The most troublesome aspect of this was sealant spreading radially outwards from the bead to the slick part of the tyre during a ride.
Second problem was bubbling of sealant through the tyre wall itself, leading to similar problems as above. Just to note, pressure was holding in a similar manner to running regular clinchers with latex tubes.
With these slight problems, I thought I'd make some changes. It seemed to me that the Bontrager TLR sealant was perhaps a little too thin. Hutchinson say the Sector 28 is porous, and requires sealant to be used, but I had not anticipated that the sealant would itself leak through the tyre wall. With this in mind, I decided to use Hutchinson's own Protect' air product. The second change I made was using a different tape. As Ugo suggested I use the Tesa tape, I thought I'd go and get some, but this time I got the 19mm width. I did think the 21mm Stan's was a bit too wide for these rims.
So last night I did the transplant. Cleaned all the Bontrager goo from the tyres and the rims, removed the two layers of Stan's and refitted with two layers of Tesa tape. This tape doesn't quite go the full internal width of the rim, but it doesn't go up the rim wall like the Stan's had done (albeit only by a fractional amount). Tyre seated easily with a track pump, and I put 50ml of Hutchinson sealant in each tyre. Valves were sealed with the sealant, no bubbling at the bead, and this morning, the tyres have held pressure perfectly. So far there is no bubbling at the tyre wall, and absolutely no sealant leaking from anywhere that I can see.
Now I can't comment on puncture sealing ability between the Bontrager and Hutchinson sealant as I haven't had any punctures yet. But I think from this, it seems that the process of fitting these tyres with these rims has been much improved with the Hutchinson sealant and the Tesa 19 mm tape. I hope this helps anyone else who decides to use this combination. Please note that there is a new Mk2 version of the Pacenti SL23 rim that is wider internally than my version. Apologies for the essay.Shand Skinnymalinky
Argon 18 Radon0 -
Ok, I've had my Hutchinson Sector 28s installed for a while and made some changes. In summary, these tyres are installed onto Pacenti SL23 (MK1) rims, internal width 18.5mm. Firstly I have used 21mm Stan's tape after following some guidance I found elsewhere. I used Bontrager TLR sealant.
Upon installation of the tyres, there was foaming of sealant at the bead. This settled down, but slight leaking at the bead persisted for all the time that I have used them. The most troublesome aspect of this was sealant spreading radially outwards from the bead to the slick part of the tyre during a ride.
Second problem was bubbling of sealant through the tyre wall itself, leading to similar problems as above. Just to note, pressure was holding in a similar manner to running regular clinchers with latex tubes.
With these slight problems, I thought I'd make some changes. It seemed to me that the Bontrager TLR sealant was perhaps a little too thin. Hutchinson say the Sector 28 is porous, and requires sealant to be used, but I had not anticipated that the sealant would itself leak through the tyre wall. With this in mind, I decided to use Hutchinson's own Protect' air product. The second change I made was using a different tape. As Ugo suggested I use the Tesa tape, I thought I'd go and get some, but this time I got the 19mm width. I did think the 21mm Stan's was a bit too wide for these rims.
So last night I did the transplant. Cleaned all the Bontrager goo from the tyres and the rims, removed the two layers of Stan's and refitted with two layers of Tesa tape. This tape doesn't quite go the full internal width of the rim, but it doesn't go up the rim wall like the Stan's had done (albeit only by a fractional amount). Tyre seated easily with a track pump, and I put 50ml of Hutchinson sealant in each tyre. Valves were sealed with the sealant, no bubbling at the bead, and this morning, the tyres have held pressure perfectly. So far there is no bubbling at the tyre wall, and absolutely no sealant leaking from anywhere that I can see.
Now I can't comment on puncture sealing ability between the Bontrager and Hutchinson sealant as I haven't had any punctures yet. But I think from this, it seems that the process of fitting these tyres with these rims has been much improved with the Hutchinson sealant and the Tesa 19 mm tape. I hope this helps anyone else who decides to use this combination. Please note that there is a new Mk2 version of the Pacenti SL23 rim that is wider internally than my version. Apologies for the essay.
Really interesting, thanks for the update.
I've got the same original setup as you. Everything seemed great to begin with, but I'm now having similar problems to you on the rear tyre. The front oddly is much better and holds air very well. The rear is almost flat if left for 3 days or so, which is rather frustrating.0 -
Managed to convert the Voyager Hyper 37 to tubeless. The problem was to sit them on the ramps of the rim, as they are loose fit and there was no way of pumping them up. So I have used the inner tube technique... once the tyre is seated, you only unseat one side to remove the inner tube, fit a valve and inflate... much easier... now let's see if it holds air once sealed...
I was warned off converting these very same tyres to tubeless on another forum, I was told of terrible consequences despite my assertions that I'd been running tubeless with 'non tubless' tyres on my mtb for a few years without any problems. Their argument was that higher cornering speeds meant that a flat could cause the tyre to come off the rim. I didn't challenge this at the time so my bad.
The hypers (along with Randonneur pro 2) seat very nicely on my tubeless rim and I'd love to go tubeless with them as I've now swapped back to the pro's after a particularly bad week when I suffered 7 punctures with the Hypers (3 in one day)0
- are a hell of a lot better than UK ones which are always full of crap 
