Pacenti SL23 Volta 11s Hubs £169.99 now £149.99 Doh

ugo.santalucia · January 2015

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Dear ugo,

Have you been banned from posting on this thread permanently then? If so what was the rationale for that? If not why not?
In essence - What was the outcome of the review?

Nothing as bad as that or I would get out of moderating altogether... if you read back then, I ran out of things to say ages ago and kept repeating myself because my name kept being brought up associated with statements I did not want to be associated with.
We are currently discussing how we are going to moderate the forum in the future. It is clear that we cannot get too carried away in a personal duel like this and that is probably a good thing, as in the end it becomes no different to a pre-election debate where everyone desperately needs to be right at all times on everything to be seen holding their ground. Discussion should be more inclusive and less divisive, if you know what I mean

wishitwasallflat · January 2015

ugo.santalucia wrote:

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Dear ugo,

Have you been banned from posting on this thread permanently then? If so what was the rationale for that? If not why not?
In essence - What was the outcome of the review?

Nothing as bad as that or I would get out of moderating altogether... if you read back then, I ran out of things to say ages ago and kept repeating myself because my name kept being brought up associated with statements I did not want to be associated with.
We are currently discussing how we are going to moderate the forum in the future. It is clear that we cannot get too carried away in a personal duel like this and that is probably a good thing, as in the end it becomes no different to a pre-election debate where everyone desperately needs to be right at all times on everything to be seen holding their ground. Discussion should be more inclusive and less divisive, if you know what I mean

Thanks that's re-assuring. I did notice that you said you felt you had run out of things to say and were repeating yourself but it didn't really read that way to me. I was following the debate with interest and yes you and others did reiterate some views but overall I still thought it was acceptable and interesting.

FWIW I don't see any reason why a Mod shouldn't be involved in a discussion like this as long as they don't abuse the power they have - which I don't think you ever did - you just argued your perspective and others argues theirs.

ugo.santalucia · January 2015

wishitwasallflat wrote:

FWIW I don't see any reason why a Mod shouldn't be involved in a discussion like this as long as they don't abuse the power they have - which I don't think you ever did - you just argued your perspective and others argues theirs.

Possibly, but discussions can become personal and one ends up losing perspective. At the end of the day we are talking about whether or not a pair of wheels has... a tension 60% of ideal, not about a vaccine for Ebola or whether climate change is anthropogenic or not...

They're just bicycle wheels, who cares...

Twelly · January 2015

wishitwasallflat wrote:

paxington wrote:

TwellySmat wrote:

Just to restore a little bit of balance as I feel the Anti-Superstar Brigade are gaining momentum.

Been buying from Superstar for a good 4/5 years now...

+1
I haven't been a SS customer for anywhere near as long as you but, in common with yourself, I have only positive experiences of both buying and using their wheels.

Like yourself I see no reason to have any tensions checked.

Your perspective on this is interesting Paxington - and I can appreciate your loyalty to SSC up to this point but how do you interpret the lack of any response from SSC to what are pretty serious allegations made here and in the link to singletrack? Do you not think those allegations undermine SSCs credibility? I'm not saying those allegations make any difference to the actual real world situation with these wheels - but - if what they are accused of re posting on forums is true (and their silence, for me, is hard to interpret as anything other than an admission of guilt) does that not worry you?

Also what do you think of ugo's absence? I know you two disagreed on here but I for one really enjoyed reading your debate and robust exchanges of views. Its one of the things I like about this forum - seeing people disagree and debate and I think ugo's absence is detrimental to the thread and if he is gagged I think that will be detrimental to the forum as a whole.

I don't agree or disagree with either you or ugo (I've never even seen a set of these wheels and can't remember if I've ever bought anything from SSC!) just interested in how this thread has developed and what it says about this forum.

Childish behaviour on a web forum is hardly a serious allegation. Even if it were, a 'serious allegation' does not equal guilt and immediate destruction of the defendants credibility (well, sometimes it does when the Daily Mail wades in).

Forums are interesting places and can be very helpful, however most of the time they are full of nonsense and opinions being passed off as fact. Paxington is probably of the same mindset as me that a few comments on a forum are never going to overrule extensive personal experience. If I ever have a bad experience with Superstar (which is of course entirely possible as it is with any company) then I will then pass judgement on how Superstar deal with my bad experience. It would still take a lot to put me off though because they have been one of the most prompt and reliable retailers I have dealt with.

No I don't work for them... although Neil, if you are reading this, a bit of discount for a loyal customer would go down a treat

This thread started out as quite a lively discussion which both sides (Ugo and Superstar) were keeping up with informative argument and a bit of integrity. It's all got a bit petty and I'm not surprised Neil has farked off, I would do the same. When you have a group of people analysing every word you write, trying to make you look a fool, it takes a lot of effort to not look a fool. What's the point in him keeping the argument going?

paxington · January 2015

What I'll never understand is how some people hold out their hands and say yes Mr Superstar I'll gladly take 2,3 or even 4
of your bargain priced products(wheelsets)off of your hands and by the way I'm going to go online and take the P*SS out of you to boot. Sounds a bit like having your cake and eating it to me.
Integrity score 0 for that behaviour in my opinion.
And in common with TwellySmat I take the posts of most SS slaters with a pinch of salt as I'm more inclined to believe my own first hand positive experience with the company and it's products.

rww · January 2015

paxington wrote:

What I'll never understand is how some people hold out their hands and say yes Mr Superstar I'll gladly take 2,3 or even 4
of your bargain priced products(wheelsets)off of your hands and by the way I'm going to go online and take the P*SS out of you to boot. Sounds a bit like having your cake and eating it to me.
Integrity score 0 for that behaviour in my opinion.
And in common with TwellySmat I take the posts of most SS slaters with a pinch of salt as I'm more inclined to believe my own first hand positive experience with the company and it's products.

I've enjoyed the debate, but you're not adding anything other than continually repeating that you're extremely happy with your SSC wheels, giving a big high-5 to anyone else who agrees with you, and reacting unnecessarily negatively to those who don't.

Move along please.

letap73 · January 2015

rww wrote:

paxington wrote:

What I'll never understand is how some people hold out their hands and say yes Mr Superstar I'll gladly take 2,3 or even 4
of your bargain priced products(wheelsets)off of your hands and by the way I'm going to go online and take the P*SS out of you to boot. Sounds a bit like having your cake and eating it to me.
Integrity score 0 for that behaviour in my opinion.
And in common with TwellySmat I take the posts of most SS slaters with a pinch of salt as I'm more inclined to believe my own first hand positive experience with the company and it's products.

I've enjoyed the debate, but you're not adding anything other than continually repeating that you're extremely happy with your SSC wheels, giving a big high-5 to anyone else who agrees with you, and reacting unnecessarily negatively to those who don't.

Move along please.

At least he/she is attempting to add to the debate rather than posting an ad hominem attack. I would ask you to move along, however, that would be reacting unnecessarily negatively.

rww · January 2015

letap73 wrote:

At least he/she is attempting to add to the debate rather than posting an ad hominem attack. I would ask you to move along, however, that would be reacting unnecessarily negatively.

Attempting to add to the debate by accusing other posters of taking the p*ss and behaving without integrity? For me, that's spoiling the debate and if you don't like that being pointed-out then I'm sorry for that.

letap73 · January 2015

rww wrote:

letap73 wrote:

At least he/she is attempting to add to the debate rather than posting an ad hominem attack. I would ask you to move along, however, that would be reacting unnecessarily negatively.

Attempting to add to the debate by accusing other posters of taking the p*ss and behaving without integrity? For me, that's spoiling the debate and if you don't like that being pointed-out then I'm sorry for that.

You haven't added to the debate, you accused a poster of taking the p*ss , who at least posted a contrary and valid opinion to other posters. Where is the integrity in posting an ad Hominem attack on another poster?

paxington · January 2015

A mate of mine looked into buying a set of these today. It would appear that they've sold out.

rudivoller22 · January 2015

I think the guy said somewhere they only had a few hundred so not surprised. Build quality aside the price was worth it for the parts.

paxington · January 2015

rudivoller22 wrote:

I think the guy said somewhere they only had a few hundred so not surprised. .

I thought it was 500 but my memory isn't great .How are yours? Four sets wasn't it ?

rudivoller22 · January 2015

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

I think the guy said somewhere they only had a few hundred so not surprised. .

I thought it was 500 but my memory isn't great .How are yours? Four sets wasn't it ?

500 sounds about right. I Have only got one of these sets and I switched them out and went back to my mavics until I get back to race weight!! Don't really want to start the thread off again!! Have a much older set of MTB wheels that have been fine and 2 sets of the carbon clinchers (46 and 66) which I have had issues with but hopefully all sorted now.

Remarkable · January 2015

Quality thread. Here's another Perspective:

http://road.cc/content/review/140076-su ... 8-wheelset

Different wheelset, but the build element may be relevant.

paxington · January 2015

rudivoller22 wrote:

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

I think the guy said somewhere they only had a few hundred so not surprised. .

I thought it was 500 but my memory isn't great .How are yours? Four sets wasn't it ?

500 sounds about right. I Have only got one of these sets and I switched them out and went back to my mavics until I get back to race weight!! Don't really want to start the thread off again!! Have a much older set of MTB wheels that have been fine and 2 sets of the carbon clinchers (46 and 66) which I have had issues with but hopefully all sorted now.

Cool, 2 sets of Reynolds based(according to Dkay ) viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13006732 carbon wheels and set of Pacenti SL23 rimmed wheels with laser spokes and skf bearings for less than less the price of 1 set of branded carbon wheels. .
I see you have an eye for a bargain . Enjoy !

rudivoller22 · January 2015

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

I think the guy said somewhere they only had a few hundred so not surprised. .

I thought it was 500 but my memory isn't great .How are yours? Four sets wasn't it ?

500 sounds about right. I Have only got one of these sets and I switched them out and went back to my mavics until I get back to race weight!! Don't really want to start the thread off again!! Have a much older set of MTB wheels that have been fine and 2 sets of the carbon clinchers (46 and 66) which I have had issues with but hopefully all sorted now.

Cool, 2 sets of Reynolds based(according to Dkay ) viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13006732 carbon wheels and set of Pacenti SL23 rimmed wheels with laser spokes and skf bearings for less than less the price of 1 set of branded carbon wheels. .
I see you have an eye for a bargain . Enjoy !

That's my thought on it. Even taking into account build issues the parts alone are worth what I paid. And now my LBS had sorted them out hopefully they will last too. I only got 2 sets of the carbons because I wanted a 66 rear and you couldn't get them separately.

ugo.santalucia · January 2015

matt-h · January 2015

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

I think the guy said somewhere they only had a few hundred so not surprised. .

I thought it was 500 but my memory isn't great .How are yours? Four sets wasn't it ?

500 sounds about right. I Have only got one of these sets and I switched them out and went back to my mavics until I get back to race weight!! Don't really want to start the thread off again!! Have a much older set of MTB wheels that have been fine and 2 sets of the carbon clinchers (46 and 66) which I have had issues with but hopefully all sorted now.

Cool, 2 sets of Reynolds based(according to Dkay ) viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13006732 carbon wheels and set of Pacenti SL23 rimmed wheels with laser spokes and skf bearings for less than less the price of 1 set of branded carbon wheels. .
I see you have an eye for a bargain . Enjoy !

Are You connected to Superstar at all?

paxington · January 2015

matt-h wrote:

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

I think the guy said somewhere they only had a few hundred so not surprised. .

I thought it was 500 but my memory isn't great .How are yours? Four sets wasn't it ?

500 sounds about right. I Have only got one of these sets and I switched them out and went back to my mavics until I get back to race weight!! Don't really want to start the thread off again!! Have a much older set of MTB wheels that have been fine and 2 sets of the carbon clinchers (46 and 66) which I have had issues with but hopefully all sorted now.

Cool, 2 sets of Reynolds based(according to Dkay ) viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13006732 carbon wheels and set of Pacenti SL23 rimmed wheels with laser spokes and skf bearings for less than less the price of 1 set of branded carbon wheels. .
I see you have an eye for a bargain . Enjoy !

Are You connected to Superstar at all?

No Matt I'm not. I don't do this

.
Though I'm sure it's possible that it happens on the internet all the time.

veronese68 · January 2015

Remarkable wrote:

Quality thread. Here's another Perspective:

http://road.cc/content/review/140076-su ... 8-wheelset

Different wheelset, but the build element may be relevant.

Interesting that they say those are hand built though.

DKay · January 2015

Veronese68 wrote:

Remarkable wrote:

Quality thread. Here's another Perspective:

http://road.cc/content/review/140076-su ... 8-wheelset

Different wheelset, but the build element may be relevant.

Interesting that they say those are hand built though.

Doesn't really mean much though, as their carbon clinchers are hand-built too and they seem to have the most issues if the feedback on this thread is anything to go by.

They look good on the bike though.

paxington · January 2015

rudivoller22 wrote:

I only got 2 sets of the carbons because I wanted a 66 rear and you couldn't get them separately.

I thought about doing that. A pair of 32/46 + a pair of 46/66 , essentially a 3 for 2 deal if you think about it.

dazz_ni45 · February 2015

I know it is usually best to let sleeping dogs lie however......

I bought a set of these wheels when they were on offer to keep as a spare set so had left them to the side and followed this thread with interest. I know very little about building wheels so had nothing to add to the debate although following the comments did make the wonder if my wheels had the same problems as others as the spoke tension did "feel" to be low with a lot of flex in many of the spokes compared to my other wheelsets.

My local wheel builder has been building a set of wheels for me and when I was collecting them yesterday I took the superstar wheels with me to let him have a quick check for trueness and spoke tension. Both wheels were out of true and spoke tension was all over the place (his words), especially on the rear with very few spokes falling within the recommended tension range. I think someone else also mentioned it but he also said that the rims should have been built with a washer and this had been subject to technical advice issued by Pacenti (he builds mostly Pacenti rims).

He did say that the wheels were great value for money at that price and that many factory built wheels he gets in suffers from the same issues, although perhaps not to the same extent or level of inaccuracy.

I don't really want to start the debate all over again, I simply wanted to provide some further feedback on the wheelset now that I have got them checked out and am able to comment. I know that if I contacted Superstar then I am sure they would take the wheels back to try and sort the problems out, however I can't be bothered with arranging to have them posted and I am also more comfortable that my wheel builder sorts the problems and leaves them right.

I am still happy with my purchase solely due to what I paid for the wheels, although I have to say I am disappointed in the quality control especially given the statements on this thread.

DKay · February 2015

dazz_ni45 wrote:

I know that if I contacted Superstar then I am sure they would take the wheels back to try and sort the problems out, however I can't be bothered with arranging to have them posted and I am also more comfortable that my wheel builder sorts the problems and leaves them right.

I am still happy with my purchase solely due to what I paid for the wheels, although I have to say I am disappointed in the quality control especially given the statements on this thread.

This pretty much sums up my feelings about the matter too.

ugo.santalucia · February 2015

dazz_ni45 wrote:

Both wheels were out of true and spoke tension was all over the place (his words), especially on the rear with very few spokes falling within the recommended tension range. I think someone else also mentioned it

... that has been indeed "mentioned"...

dazz_ni45 · February 2015

The "mentioned" bit was in relation to the washers. I didn't want to read back through all of the posts to find out by whom or how many times it was mentioned!

ugo.santalucia · February 2015

dazz_ni45 wrote:

The "mentioned" bit was in relation to the washers. I didn't want to read back through all of the posts to find out by whom or how many times it was mentioned!

Apologies... thought it referred to the tensions, which indeed have been mentioned...

ugo.santalucia · February 2015

dazz_ni45 wrote:

He did say that the wheels were great value for money at that price and that many factory built wheels he gets in suffers from the same issues, although perhaps not to the same extent or level of inaccuracy.

I think it depends... if you talk about the big four, then I disagree: I have inspected many Mavic, Fulcrum, Campagnolo and Shimano and as new or near new they are always spot on with tension very close to the one they spec on the technical manuals. Obviously There is for me a bigger margin of error in the measure of aluminium spokes, as the calibration I have available for those has to be taken with a rather large pinch of salt.

src1 · February 2015

What's the source of information for Pacenti SL23 rims needing washers? No mention of it on their website that I can find. I've dropped them a mail to ask them to confirm their position on this.

No surprise from me that spoke tensions are all over the place. Anyone that's built a wheel by hand will know that nipple torque varies quite a lot between spokes of the same tension (as measured by spoke deflection). Other manufacturers finish by hand, but I guess that isn't going to be cost effective with prices like this.

src1 · February 2015

Btw, I've have measured a few pairs of wheels (HED, Mavics: Ksyriums & Aksiums, FSA wheels & Campag) and although they're never as good as a good pair of handbuilts (dish always seems a bit out), the spoke tension is usually pretty even.

Pacenti SL23 Volta 11s Hubs £169.99 now £149.99 Doh

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