Pacenti SL23 Volta 11s Hubs £169.99 now £149.99 Doh

DKay

There is a mobile app called RacquetTune which measures string bed tension of the racket once strung by using acoustics. It apparently works ok, but I've never used it myself as I just go off feel to tell if I need a fresh restring.

6wheels

I think the Spoke Tensioner app is only on iOS, when I did my wheels I used the Android app Checkspoke, and also Da Tuner lite.

paxington

darkhairedlord wrote:

For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

What happens if you don't ? Do you wear out the lounge carpet ? I'm not allowed to bring a bike past the patio.

darkhairedlord

paxington wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

What happens if you don't ? Do you wear out the lounge carpet ? I'm not allowed to bring a bike past the patio.

If you don't ride in winter then you need to man up, it is too difficult to wear the carpet outside, perhaps more of a pedestal carpet and you can fashion it into a gilet, who you take home from the school disco is between you and your mum.

SuperstarComponents.com

letap73 wrote:

A few questions for superstar component if I may:

You mentioned earlier on in the thread that you were selling many wheel sets - it made it difficult to have the time to respond on this thread - what fraction of wheel sets do you have returned for faults such as low tensioned spokes etc. Does the warranty cover fixes to issues like low tensioning of spokes etc.

As said earlier in the thread returns for "faults" are sub 1%. Bear in mind this includes used wheels, damaged wheels, wheels with problems which don't exist, wheels with genuine problems and so on

If it's faulty we fix it under warranty, that's about all there is to say

Oh and we offer free truing for life and discount crash rebuilds to the cost of the rim only. Need anything else?

Any questions let me know, superstar

londoncommuter

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Oh and we offer free truing for life and discount crash rebuilds to the cost of the rim only. Need anything else?

Any chance you can pop round and fit some tyres for me? Having a pause after ever so carefully starting to fit latex tubes and Vredestein 23c clinchers.....

keezx

darkhairedlord wrote:

CUT
I assume by strength you mean ultimate tensile strength (Sut)?
The yield strength (Sy) for this is very likely to be in the region of 1200 MPa so the ratio Sy/Sut is likely to be high and the dominant failure will be brittle fracture rather than yielding (Ping).
For steels it is typical to use an endurance limit of 0.5 x Sut where Sut < 1400MPa and 700MPa where Sut > 1400MPa.
For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

Buch of nonsense unfortunately.
Yield strenght for 302 /Laser spokes is about 1500 MPa and Tensile strenght 2,5 times that.....
Elongation at tensile is 50%, so brittle is out of the question.
Austenitic steel ductile strenght does not decrease drastic below zero.....

paxington

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

CUT
I assume by strength you mean ultimate tensile strength (Sut)?
The yield strength (Sy) for this is very likely to be in the region of 1200 MPa so the ratio Sy/Sut is likely to be high and the dominant failure will be brittle fracture rather than yielding (Ping).
For steels it is typical to use an endurance limit of 0.5 x Sut where Sut < 1400MPa and 700MPa where Sut > 1400MPa.
For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

Buch of nonsense unfortunately.
Yield strenght for 302 /Laser spokes is about 1500 MPa and Tensile strenght 2,5 times that.....
Elongation at tensile is 50%, so brittle is out of the question.
Austenitic steel ductile strenght does not decrease drastic below zero.....

I'm shocked by that . The Comic book led me and mum to think that he was technically minded.

darkhairedlord

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

CUT
I assume by strength you mean ultimate tensile strength (Sut)?
The yield strength (Sy) for this is very likely to be in the region of 1200 MPa so the ratio Sy/Sut is likely to be high and the dominant failure will be brittle fracture rather than yielding (Ping).
For steels it is typical to use an endurance limit of 0.5 x Sut where Sut < 1400MPa and 700MPa where Sut > 1400MPa.
For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

Buch of nonsense unfortunately.
Yield strenght for 302 /Laser spokes is about 1500 MPa and Tensile strenght 2,5 times that.....
Elongation at tensile is 50%, so brittle is out of the question.
Austenitic steel ductile strenght does not decrease drastic below zero.....

Happy to be corrected if that's the case!

paxington

londoncommuter wrote:

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Oh and we offer free truing for life and discount crash rebuilds to the cost of the rim only. Need anything else?

Any chance you can pop round and fit some tyres for me? Having a pause after ever so carefully starting to fit latex tubes and Vredestein 23c clinchers.....

Are you using the standard rim tapes ?

darkhairedlord

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

CUT
I assume by strength you mean ultimate tensile strength (Sut)?
The yield strength (Sy) for this is very likely to be in the region of 1200 MPa so the ratio Sy/Sut is likely to be high and the dominant failure will be brittle fracture rather than yielding (Ping).
For steels it is typical to use an endurance limit of 0.5 x Sut where Sut < 1400MPa and 700MPa where Sut > 1400MPa.
For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

Buch of nonsense unfortunately.
Yield strenght for 302 /Laser spokes is about 1500 MPa and Tensile strenght 2,5 times that.....
Elongation at tensile is 50%, so brittle is out of the question.
Austenitic steel ductile strenght does not decrease drastic below zero.....

This is interesting as I assumed tensile strength referred to uts. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

ugo.santalucia

darkhairedlord wrote:

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

CUT
I assume by strength you mean ultimate tensile strength (Sut)?
The yield strength (Sy) for this is very likely to be in the region of 1200 MPa so the ratio Sy/Sut is likely to be high and the dominant failure will be brittle fracture rather than yielding (Ping).
For steels it is typical to use an endurance limit of 0.5 x Sut where Sut < 1400MPa and 700MPa where Sut > 1400MPa.
For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

Buch of nonsense unfortunately.
Yield strenght for 302 /Laser spokes is about 1500 MPa and Tensile strenght 2,5 times that.....
Elongation at tensile is 50%, so brittle is out of the question.
Austenitic steel ductile strenght does not decrease drastic below zero.....

This is interesting as I assumed tensile strength referred to uts. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

I am not sure how this discussion fits with the topic. I wouldn't buy into attempts to move away the focus, which is on a particular set of wheels as per title and not on Laser spokes or the mechanical properties of stainless steel.

darkhairedlord

ugo.santalucia wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

CUT
I assume by strength you mean ultimate tensile strength (Sut)?
The yield strength (Sy) for this is very likely to be in the region of 1200 MPa so the ratio Sy/Sut is likely to be high and the dominant failure will be brittle fracture rather than yielding (Ping).
For steels it is typical to use an endurance limit of 0.5 x Sut where Sut < 1400MPa and 700MPa where Sut > 1400MPa.
For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

Buch of nonsense unfortunately.
Yield strenght for 302 /Laser spokes is about 1500 MPa and Tensile strenght 2,5 times that.....
Elongation at tensile is 50%, so brittle is out of the question.
Austenitic steel ductile strenght does not decrease drastic below zero.....

This is interesting as I assumed tensile strength referred to uts. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

I am not sure how this discussion fits with the topic. I wouldn't buy into attempts to move away the focus, which is on a particular set of wheels as per title and not on Laser spokes or the mechanical properties of stainless steel.

Drifted off but the conclusion I came to was, in general terms, you should not load beyond 700Mpa for high strength steels. So thin spokes in low spoke count wheels may suffer from fatigue failure.

SuperstarComponents.com

ugo.santalucia wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

CUT
I assume by strength you mean ultimate tensile strength (Sut)?
The yield strength (Sy) for this is very likely to be in the region of 1200 MPa so the ratio Sy/Sut is likely to be high and the dominant failure will be brittle fracture rather than yielding (Ping).
For steels it is typical to use an endurance limit of 0.5 x Sut where Sut < 1400MPa and 700MPa where Sut > 1400MPa.
For 302 steel you also need to consider the effects of operating below room temperature (riding in winter?)

Buch of nonsense unfortunately.
Yield strenght for 302 /Laser spokes is about 1500 MPa and Tensile strenght 2,5 times that.....
Elongation at tensile is 50%, so brittle is out of the question.
Austenitic steel ductile strenght does not decrease drastic below zero.....

This is interesting as I assumed tensile strength referred to uts. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

I am not sure how this discussion fits with the topic. I wouldn't buy into attempts to move away the focus, which is on a particular set of wheels as per title and not on Laser spokes or the mechanical properties of stainless steel.

It clearly fits the convesation as you are claiming our wheels are undertensioned, when you basically claim that zip wheels are over tensioned and need slackening off to prevent failures. It's on your website:

Quote ugo a website zipp wheels section: 1) Lowering the spokes tension: the wheels is factory built at 1300 N on the drive side and around 800 N on the non drive side. I believe you can reduce it to 1100 N on the drive side without compromising the performance of the wheel.

Now this is complete cobblers as we have done the maths and cx-Rays can take twice the load you claim leads them to fail, yet you Reccomend a tension which you said we were failing customers with!

Can't have it both ways, which is right then?

Any questions please let me know, superstar

ugo.santalucia

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Quote ugo a website zipp wheels section: 1) Lowering the spokes tension: the wheels is factory built at 1300 N on the drive side and around 800 N on the non drive side. I believe you can reduce it to 1100 N on the drive side without compromising the performance of the wheel.

Now this is complete cobblers as we have done the maths and cx-Rays can take twice the load you claim leads them to fail, yet you Reccomend a tension which you said we were failing customers with!

Can't have it both ways, which is right then?

Any questions please let me know, superstar

I appreciate your attempts to discredit me, but if you read one of my articles, read it all :!:

My suggestion to slightly lower the tension was to prevent FLANGE cracking on the Zipp V8 model, which has a history of failure in that respect. Nothing to do with the spokes or the wheel as a whole.

There is of course a thread on that topic too, if you want to do a bit of reading

viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12930058

You dug yourself into a hole by making contradictory statements and it's not by attempting to discredit me that you will get out... the only way to get out of it is to bag the praise and answer to the complaining customers appropriately and as mentioned by others keep a low profile. If you prefer to attack as you think that's the best defence, be my guest, but the only one who's got something to lose is you. I am really saying this in your own personal interest. Every time you post a bitter comment you lose some customers and I gain some readers of the blog... you do your maths

keezx

My intention was to state that the spokes are never the bottleneck in wheel strenght, the rim and hub are....
Spokes do not fail by high tension, but fatigue (low tension)

petemadoc

I haven't read all the tit for tat on this thread but just thought I'd add my personal experience if the wheels now that I've had them for a couple of months or so.

They've been used for some crappy winter riding and I had one very silly nasty crash which put the front slightly out of true. I'm not a wheel builder but i trued them myself. They were then raced in anger at a pretty hard cyclocross race with some rocky sections... Basically they took a good hammering. All is will after a couple of thousand Km and I'm very happy especially considering the price. My winter \ cross bike has had a new lease of life and feels a little nippier than it was.

paxington

PeteMadoc wrote:

I haven't read all the tit for tat on this thread but just thought I'd add my personal experience if the wheels now that I've had them for a couple of months or so.

They've been used for some crappy winter riding and I had one very silly nasty crash which put the front slightly out of true. I'm not a wheel builder but i trued them myself. They were then raced in anger at a pretty hard cyclocross race with some rocky sections... Basically they took a good hammering. All is will after a couple of thousand Km and I'm very happy especially considering the price. My winter \ cross bike has had a new lease of life and feels a little nippier than it was.

Amen for common sense...
Just out of interest, what spoke count did yo go for and how much do you weigh ?
I'm a fatty at the moment at around 90KG and so bought 28's as winter wheels.
Based on my good experience with these in the 28 spoke format I'm toying with getting a 20/24 set for my summer bike, as I'm usually just under 80KG when the mileages crank up in the sunshine.

rudivoller22

I wouldn't go 20/24 if you are 90kg. I have a set and they don't inspire me with confidence at 80kg . Lot of flex

paxington

rudivoller22 wrote:

I wouldn't go 20/24 if you are 90kg. I have a set and they don't inspire me with confidence at 80kg . Lot of flex

When ?

rudivoller22

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

I wouldn't go 20/24 if you are 90kg. I have a set and they don't inspire me with confidence at 80kg . Lot of flex

When ?

Mainly when out of the saddle or trying to put any power down. I have a set of 20/24 carbon clinchers too but haven't ridden those yet

rudivoller22

I'd go 28s if I got another set

londoncommuter

paxington wrote:

londoncommuter wrote:

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Oh and we offer free truing for life and discount crash rebuilds to the cost of the rim only. Need anything else?

Any chance you can pop round and fit some tyres for me? Having a pause after ever so carefully starting to fit latex tubes and Vredestein 23c clinchers.....

Are you using the standard rim tapes ?

Wahey - done. Standard tape, second set of hands and tyre levers but got there. I am rubbish at fitting tyres though and was being a big girl about not scratching the nice rim. Having said that, I'm glad these are for my summer bike as not sure I'd like to be doing this in the freezing rain somewhere.....

paxington

rudivoller22 wrote:

paxington wrote:

rudivoller22 wrote:

I wouldn't go 20/24 if you are 90kg. I have a set and they don't inspire me with confidence at 80kg . Lot of flex

When ?

Mainly when out of the saddle or trying to put any power down. I have a set of 20/24 carbon clinchers too but haven't ridden those yet

I had to have a long talk to myself NOT to buy the C46's, mainly as I have a set of SRAM S60's and so really couldn't justify it. If they'd been 11 speed it probably would have been different
How long have you had your Pacenti's ?

ugo.santalucia

paxington wrote:

If they'd been 11 speed it probably would have been different

The Icon rear is a Novatec (there is a thread about them), so you can just replace the 10 speed free hub with a Type B2 11speed one



And the correct end caps



Probably less than 50 quid in total

paxington

Thanks for that. Only gold hubbed sets left now though by the look of it.

ugo.santalucia

paxington wrote:

Thanks for that. Only gold hubbed sets left now though by the look of it.

Gold hubs look ace... I wish I bought those Novatec disc hubs in gold when they were selling them on Ebay

paxington

ugo.santalucia wrote:

paxington wrote:

Thanks for that. Only gold hubbed sets left now though by the look of it.

Gold hubs look ace... I wish I bought those Novatec disc hubs in gold when they were selling them on Ebay

Well yes they can do . Wouldn't suit Red and Black bike though unfortunately. Though I guess that's down to personal preference.

rudivoller22

I've got the silver ones as they'd run out of black and gunmetal and I thought they were going to look crap but you don't really notice them to be honest.

ugo.santalucia

paxington wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

paxington wrote:

Thanks for that. Only gold hubbed sets left now though by the look of it.

Gold hubs look ace... I wish I bought those Novatec disc hubs in gold when they were selling them on Ebay

Well yes they can do . Wouldn't suit Red and Black bike though unfortunately. Though I guess that's down to personal preference.

I think they would. Belgian flag for reference... those colours work well together. Black and gold is a winner. What's not to like?