Pacenti SL23 Volta 11s Hubs £169.99 now £149.99 Doh
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You have more confidence in my wheels than I do then. Hopefully I will see you in a pub too, although if riding there you will get there first. :oops:ugo.santalucia wrote:Veronese68 wrote:Likewise I have dealt with Ugo and will undoubtedly do so again.
Don't think so...
You have learnt to build your own wheels and having seen them and checked them I am confident they will last just as long as anything I would build.
From now on our dealings will be in the form of you seeing me ass disappearing in the distance up a slope... 8)0 -
Ill ask again Ugo, i really would like to know. What are the correct build tensions for a 20/24H radial front 2x rear F2 pattern wheelset built on stans alpha 340s and Sapim laser spokes.
The reasonI ask is without knowing the detail of what your perfect build specification is, which will satisfy your QC is in actual figures any claims from eitehr side are pointless.
So far your only comment is max out the rim, but that doesnt match up with what a rim manufacturer (Kirk Pacenti) has just said. If you get our Am carbon rims you need more than 500kgF to pull a spoke through so if you follow your current advice the spokes will snap or nipples will fail before you get even half way to your required value.
You called me to the forum to answer questions by PM message saying i was avoiding the discussion (which you twisted to mean i was wrong if i didnt reply in public...), so im calling you to the forum to answer a question so we can base the discussion on facts please.
Regards, Superstar0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:Ill ask again Ugo, i really would like to know. What are the correct build tensions for a 20/24H radial front 2x rear F2 pattern wheelset built on stans alpha 340s and Sapim laser spokes.
Regards, Superstar
It is a terrible combination of rims, hole counts and spokes and would only build it for a 50 Kg rider I would never build them not knowing who will ride them. If such rider came to me with all the ingredients and desperate for a build, I would load 900-1000 N at the front, 1200 N at the rear drive side and whatever comes out on the rear non drive side... so depending on hub flange geometry, it will be somewhere around 550-600 N.
This is for the newer Alpha 340... if they were the older ones (pre 2012), then I would fit Sapim HM washers in every single hole. In the absence of those, I would file the bigger oval Sapim washers to fit through the 8 mm wide rim holes and use those instead. With that, I would use the same tensions as above.
This is really the last time I engage with you... I won't play your game.left the forum March 20230 -
I was actually a sympathiser with superstar and have recommended them to others but wow they really don't have a clue about how to engage themselves in public.
In particular at least 3 people (myself included) have mentioned slight issues with superstar wheelsets, and instead of making any comment to those people the guy ignores that and still has a rant about how Ugo has calibrated his tools. Seriously?! And in reply to something that wasn't even concerning him.
If that is how they engage themselves on a public forum I dread how they will respond to me when I actually report an issue. Hopefully the LbS can sort out the minor issue and I won't have to try and deal with them. As no doubt any issue will of course be my fault or the fault of the delivery company. Although I suspect it is actually Nick Cleggs fault!
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Im not asking for your opinion on the build, thats irrelavent but hey pick a rim you would reccomend and spec for that so we can see the variance for a bit of fun. Old alphas were recalled by the manufacturer effectively, all mine got scrapped (we got them directly from Sun rims in china where they are made, in a HGV container of thousands of rims)
So in KGf to keep the units the same please. 1N = 0.10197 kp (Kgf is also known as a Kilopond bizzarely enough)
Front is 90Kgf, Rear drive is 120kgf rear non-drive 55Kgf.
Strangely enough thats what i would build them to so we agree there (non drive will be more like 80Kgf from what i have measured but thats irrelavent)
So what were the figures for the "problem" wheel we are talking about, ive only seen a variance quoted. ill build a wheel to those numbers and see how it comes out, then we will know if it physically could be built to that and be approved by the machine (it has a reject rail for anything it doesnt like and doesnt meet criteria).
Then we will know more and be able to work out likely causes of the problem. If there are any faults we would rectify them under warranty (strangely enough what we would do normally without question) and refund postage so there is no cost to the customer. Thats what your warranty is there for, if you choose to get someone else involved it creates problems and just costs you money.
Sound good to you?
Regards, Superstar0 -
Ok great so if I post my c46 front wheel back to you to have a look at you will refund the postage? (About £15). As I said the other 3 are fine but the one I'm referencing is clearly out of true to the eye and even with brake pads fully open it hits the rim on one side so the wheel doesn't soin freely.0
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ugo.santalucia wrote:Galatzo wrote:Any ideas how much more the 28 holes in black will weigh over the 20/24s ?
60 grams
Why should anyone trust your figures? After all you got this very simple one wrong , and i bought the 28's trusting your figures . Moral Ugo sometimes speaks without checking ERGO Ugo's figures need verifying...0 -
paxington wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Galatzo wrote:Any ideas how much more the 28 holes in black will weigh over the 20/24s ?
60 grams
Why should anyone trust your figures? After all you got this very simple one wrong , and i bought the 28's trusting your figures . Moral Ugo sometimes speaks without checking ERGO Ugo's figures need verifying...
Why would you buy something based on the advice of a stranger on the internet and then bitch about it?
Are you unhappy with YOUR purchase?
You have some serious issues to resolve, perhaps with professional help.
What's the difference between the two builds? oh, yeah, 4 spokes, 4 hole in the rim, 4 holes in the hub and 4 nipples.0 -
Luckily wheel weight isn't an issue for me . These are 1688g. I bought these wheels on the recommendation of a friend . My point is Ugo spoke off the top of his head without being in command of the facts. As I've said several times on here I'm delighted with my wheels having actually used them for over 1500K now. I weigh 90KG so they've had a fair test thus far. I think I'm one of only a very few that can actually report anything first hand to do with actual usage of these wheels. You know, actually putting a pair of wheels on a bike riding it . (darkhairedlord wrote:paxington wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Galatzo wrote:Any ideas how much more the 28 holes in black will weigh over the 20/24s ?
60 grams
Why should anyone trust your figures? After all you got this very simple one wrong , and i bought the 28's trusting your figures . Moral Ugo sometimes speaks without checking ERGO Ugo's figures need verifying...
Why would you buy something based on the advice of a stranger on the internet and then ***** about it?
Are you unhappy with YOUR purchase?
You have some serious issues to resolve, perhaps with professional help.
What's the difference between the two builds? oh, yeah, 4 spokes, 4 hole in the rim, 4 holes in the hub and 4 nipples.0 -
In what way was he wrong, 12 Sapim Laser spokes and nipples would weigh about 60g. Many have commented that the weights quoted by Superstar are a little optomistic anyway so unless you have weighed a 20/24 that was built in the same way how can you be sure that they are not. In addition as the guy from Superstar would say himself have your scales been calibrated by the Manufacturer-if not how do you know they are correct?0
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stevie63 wrote:In what way was he wrong, 12 Sapim Laser spokes and nipples would weigh about 60g. Many have commented that the weights quoted by Superstar are a little optomistic anyway so unless you have weighed a 20/24 that was built in the same way how can you be sure that they are not. In addition as the guy from Superstar would say himself have your scales been calibrated by the Manufacturer-if not how do you know they are correct?
My fault. I failed to read that the 20/24 and the 28/28 were manufactured with different spokes... I just assumed they were the same bar spoke count and made the maths. Apologies if anyone got confused.left the forum March 20230 -
Oh I didn't realise either that they were building them differently, I take it they are using Race spokes instead.0
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stevie63 wrote:Oh I didn't realise either that they were building them differently, I take it they are using Race spokes instead.
Yesleft the forum March 20230 -
To answer questions on wheel weights, as it explains on our website:
Wheel weights are all based on a real wheelset we build and weigh, its the actual weight not a fudge or estimation. Note the weight EXCLUDES the rim tape as is industry practice, and lots of people have a personal preference for a specific type to suit their needs. Obviously there is a tolerance mostly based on the rim extrusion being +/- 10%, but thats out of my control. So no conspiricy here...
If you think its wrong or we dont list a weight you need please contact us and we will walk out into the warehouse and recheck it, then update the webiste if its incorrect. Simples
Any questions please let me know, Superstar0 -
stevie63 wrote:In what way was he wrong, 12 Sapim Laser spokes and nipples would weigh about 60g. Many have commented that the weights quoted by Superstar are a little optomistic anyway so unless you have weighed a 20/24 that was built in the same way how can you be sure that they are not. In addition as the guy from Superstar would say himself have your scales been calibrated by the Manufacturer-if not how do you know they are correct?
I hope you now see the point I was making. It is possible that what someone states is sometimes proved wrong. Albeit that they made an honest error in arriving at their figures/findings.
I think Ugo should of only posted figures concerning the wheels that failed together with independent verification, in fairness to himself , Superstar and forum users/people who own similar wheels. After all why not do so in support of his own case.0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:To answer questions on wheel weights, as it explains on our website:
Wheel weights are all based on a real wheelset we build and weigh, its the actual weight not a fudge or estimation. Note the weight EXCLUDES the rim tape as is industry practice, and lots of people have a personal preference for a specific type to suit their needs. Obviously there is a tolerance mostly based on the rim extrusion being +/- 10%, but thats out of my control. So no conspiricy here...
If you think its wrong or we dont list a weight you need please contact us and we will walk out into the warehouse and recheck it, then update the webiste if its incorrect. Simples
Any questions please let me know, Superstar
To be fair your website was spot on according to my scales.0 -
I notice superstar have posted on here 3 times today but has still ignored my question about the wheel issue I'm having. Nice to know the priorities. And I have tried to call but that's basically pointless. I'm tempted to just return them and buy some from Planet X, at least you know where you are with them.
And to address the point paxington made earlier about actually riding the wheels - I have tried but the front wheel as I've said is so out of true that even with the brakes fully open the wheel is rubbing badly and doesn't spin freely so how am I supposed to actually ride them?
So will superstar refund postage if I send them back to be fixed? That's all I would like answering. If not then i may as well just pay the LBs to put it right as per my original plan.0 -
I agree. It appears there has been a slight problem with some of the wheels, and yet as you say no comment on this. I cant believe people are happy to spend more money on getting them checked out somewhere else!!! Use the warranty and if your still not happy get your money back. I'm glad I waited before "pulling the trigger" and buying a set.Irohug5 wrote:I was actually a sympathiser with superstar and have recommended them to others but wow they really don't have a clue about how to engage themselves in public.
In particular at least 3 people (myself included) have mentioned slight issues with superstar wheelsets, and instead of making any comment to those people the guy ignores that and still has a rant about how Ugo has calibrated his tools. Seriously?! And in reply to something that wasn't even concerning him.
If that is how they engage themselves on a public forum I dread how they will respond to me when I actually report an issue. Hopefully the LbS can sort out the minor issue and I won't have to try and deal with them. As no doubt any issue will of course be my fault or the fault of the delivery company. Although I suspect it is actually Nick Cleggs fault!0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:1 pair of wheels is hardly a statistical group, so i will stick with my opinion based on what i see over thousands of wheels. Your free to have your own opinion, but lets not make it presumptious or inflamatory please and stick to facts. Your always welcome to come over and see how we build.
In fairness though it isn't only 1 set of wheels, at least 4 different members who have had or seen your wheels have said that the build was not perfect, 1 said the wheel was out of true by 1mm, another said that the tension of the non drive spokes varied by 30%, 1 member said that the radial trueness was out and then we also have the set that Ugo saw. That is just those that visit this forum. You also stated that you have sold approx 500 pairs of these so that is about 1% of your wheels that have gone out the door not up to standard (likely higher because not everyone posts on this forum and of course most are not able to measure the evenness of spoke tension)
How many wheelbuilders would be happy if 1 or more wheels in every hundred they build was not up to standard?0 -
Sorry make that 5 members.0
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Irohug5 wrote:I notice superstar have posted on here 3 times today but has still ignored my question about the wheel issue I'm having. Nice to know the priorities. And I have tried to call but that's basically pointless. I'm tempted to just return them and buy some from Planet X, at least you know where you are with them.
And to address the point paxington made earlier about actually riding the wheels - I have tried but the front wheel as I've said is so out of true that even with the brakes fully open the wheel is rubbing badly and doesn't spin freely so how am I supposed to actually ride them?
So will superstar refund postage if I send them back to be fixed? That's all I would like answering. If not then i may as well just pay the LBs to put it right as per my original plan.
I think what you're highlighting here is an intrinsic flaw with forum style debates : As other people post , previous posts get pushed up the page or even onto the previous page/several pages back. Not everybody bothers or has the time to read every new post since they posted . I don't think it proves you're being ignored.
If I wanted to ask the question you asked I'd email Superstar via their website. It's worked for me on various orders.0 -
stevie63 wrote:SuperstarComponents.com wrote:1 pair of wheels is hardly a statistical group, so i will stick with my opinion based on what i see over thousands of wheels. Your free to have your own opinion, but lets not make it presumptious or inflamatory please and stick to facts. Your always welcome to come over and see how we build.
In fairness though it isn't only 1 set of wheels, at least 4 different members who have had or seen your wheels have said that the build was not perfect, 1 said the wheel was out of true by 1mm, another said that the tension of the non drive spokes varied by 30%, 1 member said that the radial trueness was out and then we also have the set that Ugo saw. That is just those that visit this forum. You also stated that you have sold approx 500 pairs of these so that is about 1% of your wheels that have gone out the door not up to standard (likely higher because not everyone posts on this forum and of course most are not able to measure the evenness of spoke tension)
How many wheelbuilders would be happy if 1 or more wheels in every hundred they build was not up to standard?
in superstars own words "We have plenty of people send back for a free true" :roll:0 -
I have. I was merely pointing out that he is responding to posts from Ugo that precede mine and others so he must have read through. And in any case if I was a manufacturer responding on an open forum I would make a point to read the replies before responding. Though in fairness I wouldn't be on here in the first place!0
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Irohug5 wrote:I have. I was merely pointing out that he is responding to posts from Ugo that precede mine and others so he must have read through. And in any case if I was a manufacturer responding on an open forum I would make a point to read the replies before responding. Though in fairness I wouldn't be on here in the first place!
And I was merely pointing out that is fundamental human decency to address your complaints to the retailer direct in at least the first instance. Surely that make sense, most retailers/manufacturers are going to check their customer email system on a far more regular basis than they have time to check a forum . As pointed out by someone earlier very few suppliers would bother to address a forum at all .
If you do that and get ignored then maybe you have a case to do it in public.0 -
And as I previously said i already have. I was also told previously they don't pay postage for me to return a set but then on this forum he said they would. So I think if he says that in an open forum I am perfectly entitled to ask that question in the same place. Do you work for them or something?0
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I disagree. He has entered a public forum, and is happy to post to defend his product, but ignoring posts made by people not happy with the product it seems.paxington wrote:Irohug5 wrote:I have. I was merely pointing out that he is responding to posts from Ugo that precede mine and others so he must have read through. And in any case if I was a manufacturer responding on an open forum I would make a point to read the replies before responding. Though in fairness I wouldn't be on here in the first place!
And I was merely pointing out that is fundamental human decency to address your complaints to the retailer direct in at least the first instance. Surely that make sense, most retailers/manufacturers are going to check their customer email system on a far more regular basis than they have time to check a forum . As pointed out by someone earlier very few suppliers would bother to address a forum at all .
If you do that and get ignored then maybe you have a case to do it in public.0 -
Irohug5 wrote:And as I previously said i already have. I was also told previously they don't pay postage for me to return a set but then on this forum he said they would. So I think if he says that in an open forum I am perfectly entitled to ask that question in the same place. Do you work for them or something?
No. It's probably an alien concept to you but sometimes people do say what they think for no other reason other than they believe in what's fair and reasonable. It is an alien concept to you isn't it.0 -
I'm merely stating an opinion as everyone is entitled to do not trying to pick holes in people and have a go as you seem to be doing. There is no fair and reasonable at issue. People are expressing different opinions, nobody else is making personal criticisms of people for expressing them. It is fair and reasonable of anyone with a concern to post that just as much as it is people such as yourself stating you are more than happy with the product. I have not said anything against superstar, my first post pointed out I have bought from them in the past and probably will continue to do so, though probably not wheels.0
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paxington wrote:Irohug5 wrote:And as I previously said i already have. I was also told previously they don't pay postage for me to return a set but then on this forum he said they would. So I think if he says that in an open forum I am perfectly entitled to ask that question in the same place. Do you work for them or something?
No. It's probably an alien concept to you but sometimes people do say what they think for no other reason other than they believe in what's fair and reasonable. It is an alien concept to you isn't it.
Hmm....there you go again making (very) thinly veiled insults. Not clever.0 -
Irohug5 wrote:I notice superstar have posted on here 3 times today but has still ignored my question about the wheel issue I'm having. Nice to know the priorities. And I have tried to call but that's basically pointless. I'm tempted to just return them and buy some from Planet X, at least you know where you are with them.
And to address the point paxington made earlier about actually riding the wheels - I have tried but the front wheel as I've said is so out of true that even with the brakes fully open the wheel is rubbing badly and doesn't spin freely so how am I supposed to actually ride them?
So will superstar refund postage if I send them back to be fixed? That's all I would like answering. If not then i may as well just pay the LBs to put it right as per my original plan.
Hello im sorry if i lost your comment in the hundreds of posts, its hard to keep up while doing the day job at the same time as reading all this. The best way of contacting customer service is to email Contact@superstarcomponents.com (customer service) and they will deal with your query. I dont work in customer service and will just forward you onto them, plus a forum is not really the best place to contact a company about a problem.
As for postage costs its simple and explained on the retruns section of the website:
Basically if its our fault we refund upto the max postage cost (email in for our reccomended places to ship)
If its just wear and tear, or needs a true through normal use you pay the postage to us and we do the work and return to you for free. (free truing policy)
from your description of its a brand new wheel and its not straight its pretty obvious we will refund you...
What alot of inflamers and speculators wont say is that 95% of the time when its not our fault we will still fix it for free. if its not clearcut, we take the hit.
Any questions please let me know, Superstar0
