Pacenti SL23 Volta 11s Hubs £169.99 now £149.99 Doh
Comments
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yaya wrote:DKay wrote:To date, nobody has managed to make an automated machine which can string-up a racket, as it's too complicated. Call me a romanticist, but I kinda like that.
The technology for developing and building such a machine exists for sure but the cost of making one that can deal with different sizes of rackets, different frame materials, string types and different patterns will drive the cost of the rackets up making the whole thing irrelevant. Fortunately there are still enough people who play tennis and enough people skilled enough to string good rackets
Yeah, the technology does exist theoretically. But, like I said, the complexity would just be too much.0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:The amount of tension is a personal preference based on usage and materials. yes you can crank it up supertight but that doesnt make it stiffer or stronger
As this as become a techy thread, I happen to have an update, having found the freely available version of Brandt's "The bicycle wheel" (although I think the man deserves his royalties, so buy the book!)... however, quoting from Brandt, a few lines that will hopefully enlighten you on the importance of high tension in a strong and durable wheel as opposed to any tension.Strength is a measure of the greatest load the wheel can carry before it collapses.
Durability is a measure of how far the wheel will travel before it loses alignment.
The two are related, but are not the same.
The load that will cause collapse is roughly equal to the sum of the tension in
four or five spokes. Therefore, the tighter its spokes are (up to a point), the
greater a wheel's load capacity.
If the spokes are
sufficiently tight that they do not become slack from vertical loads, then both
lateral and torsional loads are no concern because they are relatively small and
usually do not occur in conjunction with extreme vertical loads.
If its spokes are tensioned to 1000 N, a 36-spoke wheel will support approximately
400 kg. This is considerably greater than the average rider's weight.
However, loads of 400 kg or more sometimes occur when a wheel strikes a bump
in the road at high speed. If such overloads occur often, the nipples of slack
spokes can unscrew, reducing tension to affect both wheel alignment and
strength. Although radial overloads rarely cause wheel collapse, they can make
the wheel lose alignment.
As you reduce the number of spokes from 36 to 28 and 24, the tension needs to increase to give you the same load capacity and strength. So a 36 wheel with 1000 N is as strong as a 28 wheel at 1280 N, which is as strong as a 24 wheel at 1500 N. The latter tension is too high and will probably damage the rim, hence the impossibility to have a 24 H wheel as strong as a 36 (unless the 36 is undertensioned).
Moral: tension IS NOT a personal choice as you say and your wheel is only as good, as strong and as durable as the tension you are capable of loading in the spokes. Under no circumstance low tension is a good thing as it will always cause the spokes to slacken under load at each turn of the wheel and fatigueleft the forum March 20230 -
Hello by personal choice i mean of the wheelbuilder, they analyse the number of spokes, lacing, rim, hub and all the other factors and choose an appropriate tension. We discuss technical details with the rim manufactures, spoke manufacturers and with the machinery manufacturers, who between them are involved with millions of wheelbuilds, so i would rely on their experience to be correct.
As i explained just cranking up the tension doesnt make a wheel stronger, im glad you agree with me.
Regards, Superstar0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:
As i explained just cranking up the tension doesnt make a wheel stronger, im glad you agree with me.
Regards, Superstar
It does and I don't.
I am pleased you read carefully (not)
Anyway, if you are happy with your low tensions which go against the dynamics of a bicycle wheel, go ahead... time will surely tell if the tensions were good enough to make durable wheels...left the forum March 20230 -
One thing that does seem to have been confirmed in a round about way is that the low tension that you saw on that wheelset was not a one off but consistent as otherwise the supplier wouldn't need to defend low spoke tension.0
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stevie63 wrote:One thing that does seem to have been confirmed in a round about way is that the low tension that you saw on that wheelset was not a one off but consistent as otherwise the supplier wouldn't need to defend low spoke tension.
What I gathered from the misty words of SS is that they use torque as a way to assess spoke tension. Despite his faith, torque is not a reliable method to estimate spoke tension. Nipple threads are anything but homogeneous and rim holes drillings are anything but homogeneous too. Neither homogeinity nor reliable absolute values can be obtained with this method (which is in fact disregarded by ENVE)
You can do a DIY experiment and build a wheel using a calibrated torque wrench with a bit that fits the nipple heads, basically replicating what the robot does... if you then measure the tensions with another, more reliable method, you will observe how the method is flawed, or better it only works in ideal conditions that do not exist.
Hollands mechanics also sell an acousitc set up to measure tensions, which again from the mist of words I did gather they don't use at SuperStar. Acoustic methods if properly set up and calibrated give the highest accuracy, as clearly demonstrated by the incredibly defined range of notes you can produce with a tense wire in a guitar or violin. Each of them corresponds to a combination of length, gauge and tension of the vibrating portion.left the forum March 20230 -
Im not defending the low tension claimed as i have not been able to measure the wheel involved, therefore its purely 3rd party claimed numbers (uncalibrated) which mean nothing. If there is a problem the wheel needs to be returned to me for inspection. We have no idea what has happened to the wheel since it left our wheelbuild area, but when it left it was correct. For all i know it is damaged or has been tampered with, unlikely but possible.
I dont think Ugo actually understands what calibration is, testing it on 4 different spokes is not calibration. Sending it to a lab where a specimin sample of known value, then setting the guage up to read the right figure is calibration. I can only presume from description, that the guage in question was bought and then used, then never calibrated again. Therefore believeing figures gospel, without this is misleading and potentially false.
We use the CORRECT tension as specified by the component manufacturers. As i have explained we measure tension in a completely differnt way to a deflection meter, so our figures will not be comparible.
Ugo you have clearly stated:
1. too low tension is bad.
2. too much tension is also bad.
Both of these are correct, and both are exactly the same as i have stated. To claim otherwise is trying to read between the lines desparately trying to find fault, to justify that your right.
The torque method is infact more reliable, and considerably better than deflection, your free to have your own opinion. The accoustic method from HM is still under development and not available for use yet, maybe we will get it when it is...
As you (Ugo) are clearly a world expert on wheel building, what is the correct tension for:
24 spoke, 2x F2 pattern wheel with Sapim Race spokes and alloy nipples. Full working and methodology please
Regards, Superstar0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:Im not defending the low tension claimed as i have not been able to measure the wheel involved, therefore its purely 3rd party claimed numbers (uncalibrated) which mean nothing. If there is a problem the wheel needs to be returned to me for inspection. We have no idea what has happened to the wheel since it left our wheelbuild area, but when it left it was correct. For all i know it is damaged or has been tampered with, unlikely but possible.
You have, as you said you check all the wheels that were returned. Then it travelled from Lincoln to London and then from London to SW London... not ALL wheels do get damaged in the transport...SuperstarComponents.com wrote:As you (Ugo) are clearly a world expert on wheel building, what is the correct tension for:
24 spoke, 2x F2 pattern wheel with Sapim Race spokes and alloy nipples. Full working and methodology please
Regards, Superstar
Easy... it is the highest tension the rim is manufactuerd to tolerate, as explained previously by Jobst Brandt. Typically 125 KgF, more for some rims, less for others... Max building tension can be found on many manufacturers websites or if not an enquiry will provide an answer. Anything less is less good or it might be good enough for light riders who are very very careful. As you have no control over who buys your wheels, the need to build them at the highest tension within the rim limitations is even greater, to make sure even those 90 Kg guys riding on those bumpy lanes can do so with peace of mind.left the forum March 20230 -
"alloy nipples" :shock:
I hope Ugo would never do such a thing
http://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
mroli wrote:"alloy nipples" :shock:
I hope Ugo would never do such a thing
Sleep safe Mroli... last time I used them was on a set of ENVE... not much choice there... we are talking about well over one year agoleft the forum March 20230 -
Well some of the rims we use have a higher pull through strength than the brass nipple...
So what then? How much below this figure do you run to allow for tension variation and impacts? So far we havent had this difinitive answer we can use to settle what is right, too much vagueness, i just want pure science please.
125 KgF is Stans rim figure, and they are possibly the lowerst figure of any manufacturer we use. So yes we have to slacken off our spoke tensions to allow for Stans rims, most other wheels are higher.
Regards, Superstar0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:125 KgF is Stans rim figure, and they are possibly the lowerst figure of any manufacturer we use. So yes we have to slacken off our spoke tensions to allow for Stans rims, most other wheels are higher.
Regards, Superstar
OK.
So what you are saying is that the Pacenti SL 23 as per title are typically built in your line at > 125 KgF. That's not what I found, but as you say they have been probably damaged and slackened going from A to B to C in a box.
Either that, or my calibrated tension gauge is not that well calibrated after all... in fact very badly calibrated, as it would appear to read well over 50% lower than they really are
Or something else...
Noted. left the forum March 20230 -
This talk of torque being more accurate worries me slightly. I'm no expert in wheel building, but I know a bit about automotive stuff. Torque settings lost favour some time ago as they are not accurate enough.0
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Veronese68 wrote:This talk of torque being more accurate worries me slightly. I'm no expert in wheel building, but I know a bit about automotive stuff. Torque settings lost favour some time ago as they are not accurate enough.
So how do you measure it then and what? I cant remember the last time a car was fited with a spoked wheel. If your talking about head bolts yes you use torque and then angular as standard, but thats because you want the bolts to stretch, its really bad news if your spokes stretch!!!
so it all depends on what your doing, lets keep it about spokes in a wheel.
The problem with a deflection meter you can easily get a 30% change in value depending on how you are using it, then throw in things like calibration and if your charts (which are non-linear) actually apply to the build you have in front of you. Its amazing how people belive in what the tool is telling them without actually knowing why its telling them.
I would be surprised if a spoke actually have 40% different tension, its unlikely to be a round wheel at that point, this hints to me that the figures given cant be true and more investigation is needed.
The next thing we need to think about is the flower effect... imagine your ultra tight 20 spoke radial laced wheel has the max spoke tension, it will dip in at every spoke and out in the gaps. If you have this problem then you have too much tension (theres another reason to add to the list for not maxing out when tighteneing spokes), and your rim is scrap. If you put 125Kgf on a stans 20H radial laced alpha rim i think you would have problems.
So please pop down with this wheel, ill show you around and ill check it with a calibrated guage, P&KLie wheel jig and also our (more accurate) machine at the same time. then we will know actually what is happening.
Any questions let me know, Superstar0 -
Ugo's visit to Superstar Components is like the Pacquiao v Mayweather fight. The public wants to see it, but will it ever happen? Who knows...0
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SuperstarComponents.com wrote:So please pop down with this wheel, ill show you around and ill check it with a calibrated guage, P&KLie wheel jig and also our (more accurate) machine at the same time. then we will know actually what is happening.
It's not my wheel of course... not much point now anyway, I took the time to correct all the discrepancies and bring the tension up to where it should be after your "repair"... as the first time round he suffered a broken spoke and two loose ones in the space of 9 miles, you understand he lost trust in you... he does trust me though, because in the past I built him some wheels that have covered many thousands and are still true and solid now (no transportation there though... ).
Back to the techy stuff: What you call the "flower effect" (funny name) indeed would apply to some rims, I have seen it a lot in factory assembled Shimano DA CL 24 and RS 80 rims... it would however not apply to a much stiffer and more robust rim like the 24 mm wide Pacenti in question (or Archetype or HED or Kinlin 279, you name it). Some rims should not exist in low spoke count and the Alpha 340 you mentioned is one of them. I only use it as 32 holes because in essence is what some refer to as a "rim made of cheese"... as a matter of fact I try to avoid using it altogetherleft the forum March 20230 -
MrB123 wrote:Ugo's visit to Superstar Components is like the Pacquiao v Mayweather fight. The public wants to see it, but will it ever happen? Who knows...
Same problem... raising the budget to make it happen... :!:left the forum March 20230 -
MrB123 wrote:Ugo's visit to Superstar Components is like the Pacquiao v Mayweather fight. The public wants to see it, but will it ever happen? Who knows...
I'm really enjoying this discussion. I'm learning a couple of things about wheels and wheel building, and it doesn't happen often in this industry that an informed critical user of products has an open discussion with a manufacturer. Compliments to the both of you and keep on going.
Some on else who can have Pinarello R&D (or any other big brand) open up a discussion what they really do? That's another box to open. And I'm really curious what this R&D really is.
Last but not least, my Pacenti set is dong well so far.0 -
Mr Superstar, I'm impressed that you are contributing to this thread but I would prefer it (and I think you would come across better) if you gave a plausible explanation of Ugo's findings, rather than questioning his measuring tools or methods.
I've had dealings with Ugo and, as others have said, his professionalism and integrity are beyond question (In my opinion of course) and I can think of no reason for him to make up this stuff.
And for the same reason, I totally understand why he would be interested in your methods and explanation of his findings.
You have also suggested that the tensions were somehow changed in transit.... twice.
Both times when sent from you to the customer (one after the repair) so I would expect that they were packaged correctly as you are doing this thousands of times a year.
I'm no expert but I fail to see how this could have happened and not done any other damage to the wheel... twice.
I'm genuinely interested in your comments and do think it a breath of fresh air that you are bothering.0 -
W12 lad wrote:Mr Superstar, I'm impressed that you are contributing to this thread but I would prefer it (and I think you would come across better) if you gave a plausible explanation of Ugo's findings, rather than questioning his measuring tools or methods.
I've had dealings with Ugo and, as others have said, his professionalism and integrity are beyond question (In my opinion of course) and I can think of no reason for him to make up this stuff.
And for the same reason, I totally understand why he would be interested in your methods and explanation of his findings.
You have also suggested that the tensions were somehow changed in transit.... twice.
Both times when sent from you to the customer (one after the repair) so I would expect that they were packaged correctly as you are doing this thousands of times a year.
I'm no expert but I fail to see how this could have happened and not done any other damage to the wheel... twice.
I'm genuinely interested in your comments and do think it a breath of fresh air that you are bothering.
Ugo seems very quick to criticise our building method as he prefers handbuilds, being as that is what he sells (as several people have emailed me to confirm...). Superstar both handbuild and use a high spec machine and because of that we know the limitations and benifits of both, my opinion is that our top of the range machine is more accurate and more consistant than any human in a production environment. Ugo disagrees, but has never used or probbly seen the HM equipment we use.
I have explained that i do not believe the figures claimed are accurate as the wheel would be completely buckled if that was the case. He claims he is measuring tension whereas infact measureing deflection, the issue with that is if the tool is not used or calibrated correctly it magnifies the error. the reason for this is the relationship between deflection and tension is not linear.
So there is a claim that there is 1 problem (originally a broke spoke so probblay a damaged or faulty spoke as the issue), we have rebuilt it and a claim that there was a new build problem. the only person who has seen it is Ugo, therefore there is no independant second view of if the problem actually existed or not. I suspect there wasnt actually anything wrong with it. We build tens of thousands of wheels a year and get very few problems reported. Look at the facts and make your mind up.
Regards, Superstar0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:the only person who has seen it is Ugo, therefore there is no independant second view of if the problem actually existed or not. I suspect there wasnt actually anything wrong with it. We build tens of thousands of wheels a year and get very few problems reported. Look at the facts and make your mind up.
Regards, Superstar
Oh well, at least you summoned the guts to call me a liar in public... it took a while, but you managed...
I was hoping this discussion could be beneficial for the forum and I was hoping it would prompt you to double check your methods, but I think it's bound to get a sour exchange of bitterness, so best to leave it, I had frankly said it all two days ago, the rest are repetitions of the same... no hard feelings and I mean it...left the forum March 20230 -
JoostG wrote:Last but not least, my Pacenti set is dong well so far.
Mine too! I think the proof of the pudding is what really matters to real life end users.
On the subject of actual real life end users it would be interesting to hear first hand from the "friend" who's 28 spokes wheels were inspected.
Maybe he could tell us himself a few more details about the background . Eg is he 110KG ? Had he just hit a 8" deep pot hole? Why hasn't he posted himself?
I suspect we may never hear direct "from the horse's" mouth on that one, but you never know..........0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:125 KgF is Stans rim figure, and they are possibly the lowerst figure of any manufacturer we use. So yes we have to slacken off our spoke tensions to allow for Stans rims, most other wheels are higher.
Regards, Superstar
Quick question; Kirk Pacenti himself says that the recommended tension for the SL23 rim is 125kgF and that "110kgf really is all you need, and returns on higher tension diminish rather quickly once you get above 120kgf".*
Are you able to tell me what was the target tension that our machine-built bargain-tastic wheels were built to?
*http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=13913510 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:I was hoping this discussion could be beneficial for the forum and I was hoping it would prompt you to double check your methods, but I think it's bound to get a sour exchange of bitterness, so best to leave it, I had frankly said it all two days ago, the rest are repetitions of the same... no hard feelings and I mean it...
Beneficial to the forum, really
Only one person had a problem with these wheels, who won't come on them self to talk about them, many more who have bought them (and have posted here) have no problems with them, yet SSC seem to be getting the 'Spanish Inquisition' into their building methods.
Frankly SSC should be getting a pat on the back for selling such good wheels at such a competitive price, but no they get a right slagging, you couldn't make this stuff up.0 -
Just to add my twopenneth after watching this with interest.
I have bought a few things from superstar and yes it's cheap and cheerful but that's what you expect. They are pretty much the same as Planet X I suppose.
I have recently bought 2 sets of their carbon 46mm rims which to be honest for the price are fairly good despite the fact I bought them on the basis they were advertised as tubeless ready when they clearly aren't but there you go - incidentally I noticed they have taken that claim down now. I also doubt they have indeed been tested in the grand tours - but then I can't really expect tour quality wheels for the price I paid so no complaints there.
Anyway back to build quality. I ordered 2 sets, one set seems (to my uneducated eye) to be sound. On the second set the rear seems fine (possibly a tiny bit out) and the front one is completely out of true so there is s noticeable wobble. Couple of the spokes seem fairly loose to the touch so I'm sure 5 minutes and my LBS will have them 100%. I did think about sending them back but to be honest it will cost me less to get my LBS to sort it than to pay the postage so that's what I'm doing.
So my thoughts are pretty mixed. For the price I paid I'm still happy with the wheels and I probably would buy from them again. same as I have regularly bought things from Planet X. If you want cheap wheels then these will be up there with other brands no better no worse. If you want too quality then pay for ENVE/Zipp etc.
By the way I am finding the thread quite interesting. Hope Ugo goes to the factory!!0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:W12 lad wrote:Mr Superstar, I'm impressed that you are contributing to this thread but I would prefer it (and I think you would come across better) if you gave a plausible explanation of Ugo's findings, rather than questioning his measuring tools or methods.
I've had dealings with Ugo and, as others have said, his professionalism and integrity are beyond question (In my opinion of course) and I can think of no reason for him to make up this stuff.
And for the same reason, I totally understand why he would be interested in your methods and explanation of his findings.
You have also suggested that the tensions were somehow changed in transit.... twice.
Both times when sent from you to the customer (one after the repair) so I would expect that they were packaged correctly as you are doing this thousands of times a year.
I'm no expert but I fail to see how this could have happened and not done any other damage to the wheel... twice.
I'm genuinely interested in your comments and do think it a breath of fresh air that you are bothering.
Ugo seems very quick to criticise our building method as he prefers handbuilds, being as that is what he sells (as several people have emailed me to confirm...). Superstar both handbuild and use a high spec machine and because of that we know the limitations and benifits of both, my opinion is that our top of the range machine is more accurate and more consistant than any human in a production environment. Ugo disagrees, but has never used or probbly seen the HM equipment we use.
I have explained that i do not believe the figures claimed are accurate as the wheel would be completely buckled if that was the case. He claims he is measuring tension whereas infact measureing deflection, the issue with that is if the tool is not used or calibrated correctly it magnifies the error. the reason for this is the relationship between deflection and tension is not linear.
So there is a claim that there is 1 problem (originally a broke spoke so probblay a damaged or faulty spoke as the issue), we have rebuilt it and a claim that there was a new build problem. the only person who has seen it is Ugo, therefore there is no independant second view of if the problem actually existed or not. I suspect there wasnt actually anything wrong with it. We build tens of thousands of wheels a year and get very few problems reported. Look at the facts and make your mind up.
Regards, Superstar
Ive been watching this thread with interest, and was initially interested by what seemed to be a keenly priced product. Thought it may be a cheaper way of trying out some carbon hoops to see if I would get on with them.
I'm now amazed however that you have practically called a well respected member of this forum a liar. Ugo has continually given great advice and opinions on everything "wheely" and much more, and is a very well respected wheel builder.
Your "suspect there wasn't actually anything wrong with it" comment would tend to make me worry what your aftersales service was like if there was a problem.
Ive looked at the facts and made up my own mind!0 -
Completely agree . I think someone is overrating his own intelligence whilst simultaneously underrating the intelligence of the average, fair-minded reader. ....I'd say the score is 1-0 to Superstar by dint of a spectacular own goal from the other side....Flasher wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:I was hoping this discussion could be beneficial for the forum and I was hoping it would prompt you to double check your methods, but I think it's bound to get a sour exchange of bitterness, so best to leave it, I had frankly said it all two days ago, the rest are repetitions of the same... no hard feelings and I mean it...
Beneficial to the forum, really
Only one person had a problem with these wheels, who won't come on them self to talk about them, many more who have bought them (and have posted here) have no problems with them, yet SSC seem to be getting the 'Spanish Inquisition' into their building methods.
Frankly SSC should be getting a pat on the back for selling such good wheels at such a competitive price, but no they get a right slagging, you couldn't make this stuff up.
The guy who originated this thread had a clear aim, namely to pass on what see saw as a bargain to others. A certain person (who incidentally dived into the thread very early on) has displayed no such altruism.....0 -
paxington wrote:
Completely agree . I think someone is overrating his own intelligence whilst simultaneously underrating the intelligence of the average, fair-minded reader. ....I'd say the score is 1-0 to Superstar by dint of a spectacular own goal from the other side....Flasher wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:I was hoping this discussion could be beneficial for the forum and I was hoping it would prompt you to double check your methods, but I think it's bound to get a sour exchange of bitterness, so best to leave it, I had frankly said it all two days ago, the rest are repetitions of the same... no hard feelings and I mean it...
Beneficial to the forum, really
Only one person had a problem with these wheels, who won't come on them self to talk about them, many more who have bought them (and have posted here) have no problems with them, yet SSC seem to be getting the 'Spanish Inquisition' into their building methods.
Frankly SSC should be getting a pat on the back for selling such good wheels at such a competitive price, but no they get a right slagging, you couldn't make this stuff up.
The guy who originated this thread had a clear aim, namely to pass on what see saw as a bargain to others. A certain person (who incidentally dived into the thread very early on) has displayed no such altruism.....
I would say a no score draw. I think both are possible a little carried away now.
Fair play to superstar to come on the forum it makes a refreshing change, but I must admit I would have a lot more respect for him and the company if they didn't come on and call a member of the forum a liar. That's bad practice irrespective of whether he feels he is being provoked etc. can you imagine Zipp, ENVE or even planet x calling a respected member of a forum a liar! Look at the end of the day I'm sure 95% of the wheels are great and despite one if my sets being much less than perfect I'm still happy with them for the price. Even the best manufacturing line in the world will have the odd dodgey product that slips through the net, it would be a lot better if superstar maybe had some humility and acknowledged that the wheelset in question may well have just been one that got away than to maintain their production one is perfect and could never ever go wrong. Even the likes of ENVE have wheels with issues. It's how you deal with those issues that makes the difference.0 -
SuperstarComponents.com wrote:W12 lad wrote:Mr Superstar, I'm impressed that you are contributing to this thread but I would prefer it (and I think you would come across better) if you gave a plausible explanation of Ugo's findings, rather than questioning his measuring tools or methods.
I've had dealings with Ugo and, as others have said, his professionalism and integrity are beyond question (In my opinion of course) and I can think of no reason for him to make up this stuff.
And for the same reason, I totally understand why he would be interested in your methods and explanation of his findings.
You have also suggested that the tensions were somehow changed in transit.... twice.
Both times when sent from you to the customer (one after the repair) so I would expect that they were packaged correctly as you are doing this thousands of times a year.
I'm no expert but I fail to see how this could have happened and not done any other damage to the wheel... twice.
I'm genuinely interested in your comments and do think it a breath of fresh air that you are bothering.
Ugo seems very quick to criticise our building method as he prefers handbuilds, being as that is what he sells (as several people have emailed me to confirm...). Superstar both handbuild and use a high spec machine and because of that we know the limitations and benifits of both, my opinion is that our top of the range machine is more accurate and more consistant than any human in a production environment. Ugo disagrees, but has never used or probbly seen the HM equipment we use.
I have explained that i do not believe the figures claimed are accurate as the wheel would be completely buckled if that was the case. He claims he is measuring tension whereas infact measureing deflection, the issue with that is if the tool is not used or calibrated correctly it magnifies the error. the reason for this is the relationship between deflection and tension is not linear.
So there is a claim that there is 1 problem (originally a broke spoke so probblay a damaged or faulty spoke as the issue), we have rebuilt it and a claim that there was a new build problem. the only person who has seen it is Ugo, therefore there is no independant second view of if the problem actually existed or not. I suspect there wasnt actually anything wrong with it. We build tens of thousands of wheels a year and get very few problems reported. Look at the facts and make your mind up.
Regards, Superstar
Sigh.
I was hoping for so much more.0
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