And now Max Iglinskiy done for EPO

The_Boy

Source?

joelsim

Snapshot of this from Velorooms.

http://kreuziger.a1.esports.cz/documents/

The_Boy

Cheers.

joelsim

Good on them

http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/dutch ... am_astana/

sherer

Joelsim wrote:

Kreuziger blood values

1. Date 03.05.12. Haemoglobin 15.0, haematocrit 45.1o/o, retics 1.46.
2. Date 14.05.12. Haemoglobin 14.5, white count 43.2, reticulocyte count 1.44%.
3. Date20.05.12. Haemoglobin 14.8, haematocrit 44.8o/o, retics 1.b2.
4. Date 25.05.12. Haemoglobin 16.1, haematocrit 48.1o/o, retics 1.44.

HCt went from 43.2 to 48.1 in the last week of a GT

Does that also mean with the haemoglobin count is going up , I.e red blood cells. Shouldn't that go down too ?

joelsim

Yep. They should both reduce by about 10% over the duration of a 3 week Tour.

ddraver

Anyone that bleats about teams (OK, only one team) releasing data needs to have a look at the multirude if graphs on Dimspace's time line.

I suspect that no one has a dicky bird of an idea what any of it means.

The one for just the Giro one doesn't look great though...

joelsim

Yep there's a bit of chat on VR at the moment about it. Dim's graph of the Giro seems to say it all really.

joelsim

Interesting read.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/12/kreuz ... ping-case/

frenchfighter

For your information Kreuziger's family is rich as they ever need to be.

Losing his income and a fine are not really much of an issue.

Just in case someone wants to argue that angle.

frenchfighter

Also worth noting that the Giro they say he was doping...well have you looked at where he came?

Are you trying to tell me that he took some heavy dope and still got beat by the calibre of riders above him but in recent years (and before) you have sen how the boy can move the pedals.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

Also worth noting that the Giro they say he was doping...well have you looked at where he came?

Are you trying to tell me that he took some heavy dope and still got beat by the calibre of riders above him but in recent years (and before) you have sen how the boy can move the pedals.

If you mean 2012 (one of the two Giros that seem to be suspicious) then that was the Giro he won a 3rd week mountain stage (stage 19)

The_Boy

Hardly like he would be the first doper to have a 'jour sans' or two anyway.

frenchfighter

No tA Doctor wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Also worth noting that the Giro they say he was doping...well have you looked at where he came?

Are you trying to tell me that he took some heavy dope and still got beat by the calibre of riders above him but in recent years (and before) you have sen how the boy can move the pedals.

If you mean 2012 (one of the two Giros that seem to be suspicious) then that was the Giro he won a 3rd week mountain stage (stage 19)

Yeah 2012.

Stage 19 he won by a massive 19 secs to second place leaving him at 12.21 off GC lead. Worthy of note is that his gap to second place was the same amount of seconds as the stage he won - this is pretty suspicious imo; clearly doping.

Then with his ever suspicious and unbelievable Haematocrit boost he then lost a further 7.37 in the next two stages. Clearly must have been doping to achieve that loss.

Alternatively, he was not having the greatest of races, went as deep as he could to salvage it which produced a stage win then due to the exceptional effort he put in he then lost a packet the next two days.

The following year, a year not under scrutiny, he came 5th in the hardest race in the World whilst working as a super domestique.

However I suppose you could argue that Martenelli's words after stage 17 hurt enough for him to dope to win stage 19 but his dope wasn't strong enough to stop him losing more time in the next two stages?
“He needs to make a change, because up until now he hasn’t lived up to what we’d hoped for, in every sense,” Martinelli said. “This is the absolute truth. That’s it.”

tailwindhome

frenchfighter wrote:

However I suppose you could argue that Martenelli's words after stage 17 hurt enough for him to dope to win stage 19 but his dope wasn't strong enough to stop him losing more time in the next two stages

Or it was 'job done' and he knocked off early.

joelsim

Look at the evidence FF. If he wasn't doped then I'm a banana.

frenchfighter

Joelsim wrote:

Look at the evidence FF. If he wasn't doped then I'm a banana.

A ripe one ready to be eaten?

I've read a lot and read every post on velorooms, and look forward to reading the expert docs when I have time. I suppose if you want to base your conclusions on the fact his HC spiked in the last week of a GT then be my guest. You can even ignore the fact he lost more time after his supposed dope and finished well under where he is capable of.

Kreuziger is a super talented rider and always has been. If the boy dopes in the last week of a GT, he is going to be putting people to the sword not struggling to beat Hesjedal into second and then losing seven minutes in the subsequent two stages. Take some people who have been shown to be doping and look at their performances then and then now - you will see ET moves and large performance differentials.

Are you an expert on how this medication he is taking affects HC? Is anyone?

Do the studies regarding HC dropping down in the last week of a GT include the heavyweights or the also rans? There are reasons some people are GT champions and that is because they can thrash it out in the third week of the GT whereas the lesser riders falter.

frenchfighter

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.p ... tcount=948

blazing_saddles

frenchfighter wrote:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1611565&postcount=948

Hardly the most reliable or fair minded of sources, FF.

Even Tinkoff thinks he's toast after he posted this deference.

Kreuziger on the abnormality scale. Source: Swiss lab for doping analysis.



Or, reverse the scale for the chances his results were reached "normally".

ddraver

There is certainly something very interesting going on in Krezinger's physiology if those values are clean. Interesting that Ryder Hejedal's numbers also do not vary over a 3 week tour too. Perhaps it's possible that recovery has gotten so good (not that way Joel) that one can halt the slide of one's heamatocrit values now.

I have to say that taking heamatocrit values at the END of a stage when riders hydration can vary so markedly is not exactly a rigorous scientific test (i.e a climber at the end of a wet sprint stage that was ridden fairly easily vs at the end of a blistering hot MTF)

andyp

frenchfighter wrote:

I've read a lot and read every post on velorooms, and look forward to reading the expert docs when I have time. I suppose if you want to base your conclusions on the fact his HC spiked in the last week of a GT then be my guest. You can even ignore the fact he lost more time after his supposed dope and finished well under where he is capable of.

Kreuziger is a super talented rider and always has been. If the boy dopes in the last week of a GT, he is going to be putting people to the sword not struggling to beat Hesjedal into second and then losing seven minutes in the subsequent two stages. Take some people who have been shown to be doping and look at their performances then and then now - you will see ET moves and large performance differentials.

Are you an expert on how this medication he is taking affects HC? Is anyone?

Do the studies regarding HC dropping down in the last week of a GT include the heavyweights or the also rans? There are reasons some people are GT champions and that is because they can thrash it out in the third week of the GT whereas the lesser riders falter.

Why waste your time defending him? The UCI believe they have a 100% water tight case, otherwise they wouldn't have brought the prosecution on such a high profile rider. One who has, let's not forget, been coached by Ferrari for a large part of his career and I don't think anyone believes you go to Ferrari for anything other than cutting edge doping techniques these days.

I can pick holes in Kreuziger's defence, and I'm a layman in haematology at best, so the UCI's experts will be able to demolish it at the CAS hearing.

His only hope is he gets off on some kind of technicality, which his defence team have already prepared the ground for.

frenchfighter

Because I quite like him as a rider and do not see any ET performances ever from him. So unless his consistent level has been maintained by drugs throughout his entire career, I find it hard to believe he is doping.

I also think that these methods are less than perfect and do not give weight to in-depth studies of how individuals perform at these levels, how their bodies react and how medication can affect the readings.

I also have a very low opinion of the UCI.

Great if he gets off on a technicality - a lot of riders lose their careers on technicalities.

What do they gain by pursuing him - it is not like he is cleaning up results left right and centre.

Anonymous

frenchfighter wrote:

What do they gain by pursuing him - it is not like he is cleaning up results left right and centre.

Come on FF even you're better than that

lostboysaint

coriordan wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

What do they gain by pursuing him - it is not like he is cleaning up results left right and centre.

Come on FF even you're better than that

But he's not. The moment a rider has, in his mind, panache, then all rational thinking goes out of the window. It's a shame because there's some very good stuff gets lost in the nonsense regarding his favourites.

blazing_saddles

frenchfighter wrote:

Because I quite like him as a rider and do not see any ET performances ever from him. So unless his consistent level has been maintained by drugs throughout his entire career, I find it hard to believe he is doping.

I also think that these methods are less than perfect and do not give weight to in-depth studies of how individuals perform at these levels, how their bodies react and how medication can affect the readings.

I also have a very low opinion of the UCI.

Great if he gets off on a technicality - a lot of riders lose their careers on technicalities.

What do they gain by pursuing him - it is not like he is cleaning up results left right and centre.

Defending a rider because of personal preferences and prejudices is hardly solid ground.
Prosecuting him on his numbers however, is solid ground. Just not normal

frenchfighter

What numbers are flagged by you?

Why are those numbers 99% certainty of doping?

Do they account for the medication he took?

Does his subsequent performance in that Giro look like a doped rider to you? How about his other performances?

Did anyone mention once that Kreuziger looked like he was on the dope during that Giro or other GTs?

Anonymous

Who cares if he didn't LOOK like he was on the dope? Some dope just to stay competitive and make a career. Doping and hoovering up all the points and flying up mountains wouldn't be that smart, would it?

frenchfighter

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Even Tinkoff thinks he's toast after he posted this deference.

Link?

frenchfighter

I guess Roman has been doping since he was a youngster? Pretty impressive record to dope for over 10 years and not get caught? Maybe because his dad was so rich he was able to pay for the most exclusive drugs and methods and/or bribe those in charge?

2004
1st Gold medal World Under-19 Road Race Championships
1st National Under-19 Road Race Championships
1st National Under-19 Time Trial Championships
2nd Silver medal World Under-19 Time Trial Championships
2nd Silver medal World Under-19 Cyclo-Cross Championships

joelsim

Yes, probably