Tour de France Stage 5 Ypres-Arenberg *Spoiler*

adr82

Did I miss lots of people gloating over crashes? As far as I was aware it was just TMR. There's a difference between being absorbed in everything that's happening and being gleeful about it. For me it was a struggle just to keep up with events, there wasn't time to do much else.

And yet again can I point out that the weather was the single dominant factor in how the stage played out, and that the ASO can be forgiven for thinking that they might have had a typical dry summer day when they planned the route?

Paul 8v wrote:

One of the responses to someone's post was "F**k you" until it got edited to something else, I thought that was a bit strong to be fair...

Yes, like I said, restrained by internet standards! And IIRC that was in response to one of the most objectionable posts in the entire thread.

type:epyt

Porte deserves huge respect for his ride today. It's ok to say he had GT to hold his hand but their were other GT (too many GT acronyms) leaders with 4 teammates around them getting shelled from several groups. The same groups Porte rode up to and away from.

It'll be interesting to see how the forum reacts to him if he starts to perform like he did at Paris-Nice 2013.

Yellow Peril

This thread could only have ever been surpassed in length if Armstrong had ridden it then confessed to doping at the finish

No_Ta_Doctor

My pleas to the BR Forum genie for the remainder of the Tour spoiler threads:

A little less Contador worship (especially when detracting from other riders)
A little less Contador worshipper baiting
A little more humanity
A lot more cheese, geology and domesticated animals.

The_Boy

One thing that does occur to me, the falls and the nervousness seemed to calm down markedly once the race was on and the cobbles broke the group up. Perhaps it would be wiser to have had the first sectors earlier in the stage?

joelsim

type:epyt wrote:

Porte deserves huge respect for his ride today. It's ok to say he had GT to hold his hand but their were other GT (too many GT acronyms) leaders with 4 teammates around them getting shelled from several groups. The same groups Porte rode up to and away from.

It'll be interesting to see how the forum reacts to him if he starts to perform like he did at Paris-Nice 2013.

He deserves it. A more loyal super domestique you won't see.

woody1545

Watched the 1st half before I had to leave for work. Left with the feeling that the tour was over as a contest and Contador had it in the bag.

Just watched the rest of the race and I have to say thanks flip for Nibs. Still think Contador will win but at least the race is still on.

frenchfighter

Ok looks like the discussion on here is going in circles and not very interesting. Posted lots of interesting pieces of info. Lot more here, must read summation of riders quotes.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/07/ ... cts_335295

Im off for a few days. When I get back I expect Contador to have reduced his deficit by 30 secs. After all he is in 2009 Tour / 2011 Giro form so I am not worried.

Stay sane.

joelsim

frenchfighter wrote:

Ok looks like the discussion on here is going in circles and not very interesting. Posted lots of interesting pieces of info. Lot more here, must read summation of riders quotes.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/07/ ... cts_335295

Im off for a few days. When I get back I expect Contador to have reduced his deficit by 30 secs. After all he is in 2009 Tour / 2011 Giro form so I am not worried.

Stay sane.

You are actually Alberto aren't you.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

Possibly a reasonable point on the timing although I think with it in the first week it at least gives anyone who does lose time a chance to pull it back. You're the forum stato, how many GC contenders have been forced out of the race on (let's say) the last 5 pave stages of the Tour or even lost so much time it cost them any chance of winning? Part of my point is that the actual risk / danger is less than perceived. Also, you say the GC contenders took it easy but they only lost a minute or two to one of the greatest cobble riders there has been.

Last time it was just Schleck and Vande Velde, so not much. In 2004, Mayo who genuinely worried Armstrong lost 4 minutes - both dry though. But the one I would reference is the 1999 causeway which put many big names seven minutes back (most of the time Zulle lost Armstrong was there).

Pross

type:epyt wrote:

Porte deserves huge respect for his ride today. It's ok to say he had GT to hold his hand but their were other GT (too many GT acronyms) leaders with 4 teammates around them getting shelled from several groups. The same groups Porte rode up to and away from.

It'll be interesting to see how the forum reacts to him if he starts to perform like he did at Paris-Nice 2013.

Agreed although I'm still not quite sure where he missed out on the front group. The picture of him on G's wheel when they rode away from the Contador group is superb - might change my avatar.

Paul 8v

Pr**k and d**k aren't particularly nice TMR but you can't say you never swore at anyone when you edited it out after the event ;-) I wish I had an edit button in real life... From the people I have met on here in real life everyone seems very normal and pleasant (As normal as cyclists can be) we all need a group hug.

Can we go back to the racing now guys?

Didn't realise Contador had a mechanical issue, it would explain why he was losing time on the non-cobbled sections.

woody1545

No tA Doctor wrote:

My pleas to the BR Forum genie for the remainder of the Tour spoiler threads:

A little less Contador worship (especially when detracting from other riders)
A little less Contador worshipper baiting
A little more humanity
A lot more cheese, geology and domesticated animals.

+1

Also, have we seen any stuffed animals yet and if not, why not?

adr82

woody1545 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

My pleas to the BR Forum genie for the remainder of the Tour spoiler threads:

A little less Contador worship (especially when detracting from other riders)
A little less Contador worshipper baiting
A little more humanity
A lot more cheese, geology and domesticated animals.

+1

Also, have we seen any stuffed animals yet and if not, why not?

They all tragically drowned.

Macaloon

frenchfighter wrote:

Two classic specialists saying how it is next to impossible to move up on wet cobbles.

Kwiatek crashed with Vasil before the first sector and chased for 20km.

GVA crashed before the first sector also.

Sep punctured which ended his race.

Pretty sure Kwiatek and Sep would have been fighting for the in as they looked the strongest.

The only thing I'll give Boom is after sucking the wheels dry he rode as hard as he could and was packed to the brim with emotions.

None of these guys would feature in a standard flat/transition stage, unless they got in a break.

roypsb

I've read several pages of this thread. There are some right dickheads on here slagging Froome, happy that he's out, not hurt just given up etc. How feckin pathetic you lot are.

d_o_g

Paul 8v wrote:

Didn't realise Contador had a mechanical issue, it would explain why he was losing time on the non-cobbled sections.

I can't believe that story that his sprockets were blocked with mud. Ridiculous.

RichN95.

When tensions are high, banners are called for

Lanterne_Rogue

Above The Cows wrote:

I'm the child of tabloid journalists, I see 'it' everywhere.

And yes the glee of seeing people get taken out by crashes was too much for me.

One other thing that might be worth throwing out there - prompted by mention of the tabloids. Quite a few people here are questioning whether cobbles are actually that dangerous. Sure, a mechanical at the wrong time will wreck your race, and in weather like today's there's absolutely no mercy to be had, but mostly the cobbles seem to hand out a reasonably fair punishment - if you can ride them you'll normally be okay, if you can't then, well, you won't.

They're certainly an acquired taste though, and they have a mythology all of their own.

ASO might not have thrown them in to generate crashes, but thinking with a tabloid hat on then you'd certainly want to sell the sizzle, regardless of the quality of the sausage. I'm starting to wonder if the big thing about the cobbles isn't that they're dangerous, it's that they're unusual and therefore easy for ASO and the press to hype up. Is it possible we're all just falling for the hype that was used to sell the stage, and - on both sides of the argument - imbuing the cobbles with properties they just don't have?

adr82

D O G wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

Didn't realise Contador had a mechanical issue, it would explain why he was losing time on the non-cobbled sections.

I can't believe that story that his sprockets were blocked with mud. Ridiculous.

Did sound a bit weird. Why him and nobody else? Stranger things have happened, but...

No_Ta_Doctor

Also, a bonus xx to anyone that can find the thread about what sort of ridiculous things they should include in the tour (team TT on tandems etc.) from a couple of years back.

tailwindhome

Loved that stage.

Cobbles shouldn't be used every year but to me they've been a definite positive this year. They've made a race out of what could have been a procession. Let's get some perspective. Only 1 rider DNF'd and he started with a broken wrist. His abandon was only a matter of time.

Don't get the derogatory comments on the winner. You ride 160km in "foulness I can't even imagine" to cross the line first - you deserve the win. It may not have been PR but it was a stage people will talk of for years to come and when all is said and done, ain't that what it's all about.

What's next?

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Possibly a reasonable point on the timing although I think with it in the first week it at least gives anyone who does lose time a chance to pull it back. You're the forum stato, how many GC contenders have been forced out of the race on (let's say) the last 5 pave stages of the Tour or even lost so much time it cost them any chance of winning? Part of my point is that the actual risk / danger is less than perceived. Also, you say the GC contenders took it easy but they only lost a minute or two to one of the greatest cobble riders there has been.

Last time it was just Schleck and Vande Velde, so not much. In 2004, Mayo who genuinely worried Armstrong lost 4 minutes - both dry though. But the one I would reference is the 1999 causeway which put many big names seven minutes back (most of the time Zulle lost Armstrong was there).

That wasn't really a pave section though and I would agree that was a gimmick that shouldn't have been included.

thomthom

(I'm quite proud of that one..)

above_the_cows

No tA Doctor wrote:

My pleas to the BR Forum genie for the remainder of the Tour spoiler threads:

A little less Contador worship (especially when detracting from other riders)
A little less Contador worshipper baiting
A little more humanity
A lot more cheese, geology and domesticated animals.

It was so nice with this last year Doc. I missed that today.

adr82 wrote:

They all tragically drowned.

Jesus, it's turned into Les Revenants.

type:epyt wrote:

Porte deserves huge respect for his ride today. It's ok to say he had GT to hold his hand but their were other GT (too many GT acronyms) leaders with 4 teammates around them getting shelled from several groups. The same groups Porte rode up to and away from.

It'll be interesting to see how the forum reacts to him if he starts to perform like he did at Paris-Nice 2013.

Word on TobleroneBoy, my silver lining.

above_the_cows

underlayunderlay wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

I'm the child of tabloid journalists, I see 'it' everywhere.

And yes the glee of seeing people get taken out by crashes was too much for me.

One other thing that might be worth throwing out there - prompted by mention of the tabloids. Quite a few people here are questioning whether cobbles are actually that dangerous. Sure, a mechanical at the wrong time will wreck your race, and in weather like today's there's absolutely no mercy to be had, but mostly the cobbles seem to hand out a reasonably fair punishment - if you can ride them you'll normally be okay, if you can't then, well, you won't.

They're certainly an acquired taste though, and they have a mythology all of their own.

ASO might not have thrown them in to generate crashes, but thinking with a tabloid hat on then you'd certainly want to sell the sizzle, regardless of the quality of the sausage. I'm starting to wonder if the big thing about the cobbles isn't that they're dangerous, it's that they're unusual and therefore easy for ASO and the press to hype up. Is it possible we're all just falling for the hype that was used to sell the stage, and - on both sides of the argument - imbuing the cobbles with properties they just don't have?

Ooo that's good. I like that.

Lanterne_Rogue

type:epyt wrote:

Porte deserves huge respect for his ride today. It's ok to say he had GT to hold his hand but their were other GT (too many GT acronyms) leaders with 4 teammates around them getting shelled from several groups. The same groups Porte rode up to and away from.

It'll be interesting to see how the forum reacts to him if he starts to perform like he did at Paris-Nice 2013.

I have a bit more admiration for him today after listening to Geraint Thomas - from his description it sounds like it was his plan and Porte had enough sense to chance his arm. And no chance of anyone accusing him of riding to a number on a powermeter (is this the first time a powermeter has been mentioned in this thread? Is this a record?).

I suspect the differing approaches of riders trying their luck (Nibali) vs limiting their losses whilst looking deeply uncomfortable (Contador, Froome even before he crashed out) had a large part to play in the final shake up.

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

type:epyt wrote:

Porte deserves huge respect for his ride today. It's ok to say he had GT to hold his hand but their were other GT (too many GT acronyms) leaders with 4 teammates around them getting shelled from several groups. The same groups Porte rode up to and away from.

It'll be interesting to see how the forum reacts to him if he starts to perform like he did at Paris-Nice 2013.

Agreed although I'm still not quite sure where he missed out on the front group. The picture of him on G's wheel when they rode away from the Contador group is superb - might change my avatar.

He had a crash at one point. It's in the Sky report. That's where I think.

tailwindhome

The_Boy

underlayunderlay wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

I'm the child of tabloid journalists, I see 'it' everywhere.

And yes the glee of seeing people get taken out by crashes was too much for me.

One other thing that might be worth throwing out there - prompted by mention of the tabloids. Quite a few people here are questioning whether cobbles are actually that dangerous. Sure, a mechanical at the wrong time will wreck your race, and in weather like today's there's absolutely no mercy to be had, but mostly the cobbles seem to hand out a reasonably fair punishment - if you can ride them you'll normally be okay, if you can't then, well, you won't.

They're certainly an acquired taste though, and they have a mythology all of their own.

ASO might not have thrown them in to generate crashes, but thinking with a tabloid hat on then you'd certainly want to sell the sizzle, regardless of the quality of the sausage. I'm starting to wonder if the big thing about the cobbles isn't that they're dangerous, it's that they're unusual and therefore easy for ASO and the press to hype up. Is it possible we're all just falling for the hype that was used to sell the stage, and - on both sides of the argument - imbuing the cobbles with properties they just don't have?

This is basically what I was trying, badly, to get at earlier. Looking at the last few trips over the cobbles on cq ranking suggests the attrition rate agony very high at all, and GC riders can lose time at any point, but because cobbles are involved it's easy for everyone to blame it on that.