Tour de France Stage 5 Ypres-Arenberg *Spoiler*

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Got to be the longest spoiler thread ever before?

Last year's World's hold the record - 1857 posts

For a single stage, last year's Alpe d'Huez still has the record with 1447, but that will be beaten soon.

Pross

I honestly didn't see or (hopefully) post any comments like that. From what I read people (with maybe one exception) who felt the cobbles are a worthy addition were just making the point that there's all sorts of dangers in a race and that the cobbles are no more or less of a problem than many others. I've said it before but will repeat it, what issues there were today were down to rain and we probably would have seen just as many on a bog standard flat stage. I just don't see why suffering through mountains in whatever conditions are thrown up is less bad than bouncing over 15km of cobbles (less than that in the end).

Certainly no macho willy waving intended by me. I'm happy to admit I couldn't ride over those roads (or an alpine stage) but I don't think there's any justifiable reason not to have cobbles. I'm happy to apologise if you felt anything I said was personal.

type:epyt

(can't be bothered)

above_the_cows

Joelsim wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I'm with Tony

Tony Martin: "I would like these kind of stages not to feature in the Tour. If you want cobblestones, go to Roubaix or Flanders".

That means you and Tony also think there shouldn't be descents or roundabouts or tarmac. Are you sure you want to be with Tony?

Now you're doing what you were moaning about others doing, I'm used to a better quality of debating from you. It comes across as sulking because a stage you felt shouldn't be there turned into a classic. As far as I'm aware only one person retired today at by his own comments that was due to a fall yesterday. No favourites lost major time due to a mishap whether a crash or mechanical.

Much as I admire Tony Martin his attitude to cobbles, which he should excel on, disappoints me.

Anyone suggesting that the riders hated it today should look at the Movistar selfie posted up thread, not exactly cobbled specialists but they don't seem traumatised. Chances are if you go out there with the attitude it's going to be miserable then that's what it will be.

Well clearly Tony Martin didn't enjoy today.

But you know what p*sses me off? The way I say that I don't like stages being designed to induce unnecessary drama and then everyone else thinking I mean that there should be no racing at all and being silly little boys waving their willies around like they're back in the playground thinking there oh so funny and clever, ha ha ha ha.

If you take that as me sulking fair enough but I'm not, I'm just disappointed because quite frankly I expected a better standard of maturity from most people on here, you included. You're usually a decent, level headed individual yet today you and lots of other usually decent posters got swept up in the 'banter' and came across like little bullies.

Are you on the wine again ATC?

No I'm deadly serious. I was saddened today by the behaviour of people whom I like. I'm not sure say why Iain is allowed to say he thinks the cobbles were unnecessary and gets a free pass or Rich to express his misgivings whereas ddraver and I get pounced on by a rabid pack of attack dogs? Why do Iain and Rich get a free pass with their opinions? Yet when others express similar sentiments they get mocked? Its made the forum a not very nice place today. I know it's July and you get all level of silly stuff going on (and that is fine) but this comes from normally mature and sensible people whom I like and normally respect.

Pross

I took issue with Rich's post comparing it with Wimbledon and indirectly to Iain's in the post you quoted above. You and DD were more vocal in your opinion that the cobbles shouldn't be included though.

TMR

Pross wrote:

I honestly didn't see or (hopefully) post any comments like that. From what I read people (with maybe one exception) who felt the cobbles are a worthy addition were just making the point that there's all sorts of dangers in a race and that the cobbles are no more or less of a problem than many others. I've said it before but will repeat it, what issues there were today were down to rain and we probably would have seen just as many on a bog standard flat stage. I just don't see why suffering through mountains in whatever conditions are thrown up is less bad than bouncing over 15km of cobbles (less than that in the end).

Certainly no macho willy waving intended by me. I'm happy to admit I couldn't ride over those roads (or an alpine stage) but I don't think there's any justifiable reason not to have cobbles. I'm happy to apologise if you felt anything I said was personal.

I don't think you should apologise. You've posted nothing to apologise for. Neither has anyone else in this thread. And there's nothing wrong with willy waving either if that's what you want to do. You're a man, so be a man. I don't see why we should tolerate one person's attempts to emasculate the forum.

joelsim

Above The Cows wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I'm with Tony

Tony Martin: "I would like these kind of stages not to feature in the Tour. If you want cobblestones, go to Roubaix or Flanders".

That means you and Tony also think there shouldn't be descents or roundabouts or tarmac. Are you sure you want to be with Tony?

Now you're doing what you were moaning about others doing, I'm used to a better quality of debating from you. It comes across as sulking because a stage you felt shouldn't be there turned into a classic. As far as I'm aware only one person retired today at by his own comments that was due to a fall yesterday. No favourites lost major time due to a mishap whether a crash or mechanical.

Much as I admire Tony Martin his attitude to cobbles, which he should excel on, disappoints me.

Anyone suggesting that the riders hated it today should look at the Movistar selfie posted up thread, not exactly cobbled specialists but they don't seem traumatised. Chances are if you go out there with the attitude it's going to be miserable then that's what it will be.

Well clearly Tony Martin didn't enjoy today.

But you know what p*sses me off? The way I say that I don't like stages being designed to induce unnecessary drama and then everyone else thinking I mean that there should be no racing at all and being silly little boys waving their willies around like they're back in the playground thinking there oh so funny and clever, ha ha ha ha.

If you take that as me sulking fair enough but I'm not, I'm just disappointed because quite frankly I expected a better standard of maturity from most people on here, you included. You're usually a decent, level headed individual yet today you and lots of other usually decent posters got swept up in the 'banter' and came across like little bullies.

Are you on the wine again ATC?

No I'm deadly serious. I was saddened today by the behaviour of people whom I like. I'm not sure say why Iain is allowed to say he thinks the cobbles were unnecessary and gets a free pass or Rich to express his misgivings whereas ddraver and I get pounced on by a rabid pack of attack dogs? Why do Iain and Rich get a free pass with their opinions? Yet when others express similar sentiments they get mocked? Its made the forum a not very nice place today. I know it's July and you get all level of silly stuff going on (and that is fine) but this comes from normally mature and sensible people whom I like and normally respect.

We all get mocked, I do. Usually WTF do I know about cycling whenever someone disagrees with me. Hey ho.

I like your posts anyway.

Pross

I don't see the point in deliberately upsetting or offending others. I'll always give my view and listen to others but if my posts cause someone offence I've done a bad job of it.

mooro

Above The Cows wrote:

silly little boys waving their willies around like they're back in the playground

I went to school in the grim north, but even up there that would have been frowned at!

I think the discussion was fine today other than people being pleased about froomes departure which was a bit 'meh'

mfin

Anyone who's not, just chill out. You can't expect people to not be a big melting pot of all sorts of personalities just because we were all watching a race, it's no different to going to the pub. It makes it more colourful if anything.

TMR

Pross wrote:

I don't see the point in deliberately upsetting or offending others. I'll always give my view and listen to others but if my posts cause someone offence I've done a bad job of it.

Did you deliberately set out to offend? Or did that person choose to be offended?

You've never struck me as the former.

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

I took issue with Rich's post comparing it with Wimbledon and indirectly to Iain's in the post you quoted above. You and DD were more vocal in your opinion that the cobbles shouldn't be included though.

And I suppose I'm asking that people just respect other people's opinions rather than mock them, try and say they are saying something else or suggest in hindsight that just because today saw no major issues that those opinions are automatically invalid. I haven't changed my opinion because today saw no major disaster. I still think today's stage was designed more to engender some sort of 'soap opera' than anything else and I don't like that risk taking with people's bodies.

It all just struck me that some people were happy that the stage was becoming like a cage fight rather than a cycle race.

Pross

No but if my point comes across that way then I haven't expressed it well. I like to behave on here like I do in reality, make a robust point without being rude.

now f**k off and stop questioning my motives

joelsim

Mooro wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

silly little boys waving their willies around like they're back in the playground

I went to school in the grim north, but even up there that would have been frowned at!

I think the discussion was fine today other than people being pleased about froomes departure which was a bit 'meh'

I'd happily wave my willy around if it was big enough.

Yellow Peril

Just caught up with the stage via the highlights. I thought it was a great shake up and no-one would have staked big money on Nibali finishing so highly and the biggest race changing crash happening on a regular stretch of road on a stage like today.

Cycling is all things to all people and this race is the ultimate test of man and machine over 3 weeks. I think these stages are valid in the Tour.

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

No but if my point comes across that way then I haven't expressed it well. I like to behave on here like I do in reality, make a robust point without being rude.

now f**k off and stop questioning my motives

I know's you do, that's why I got upset because you're a nice bloke.

type:epyt

I think the difference is that some folk use the forum as it enhances their enjoyment of the racing and others just use it to cure their boredom. I'll let folks guess who might fall into which category.

mooro

TMR wrote:

Pross wrote:

I honestly didn't see or (hopefully) post any comments like that. From what I read people (with maybe one exception) who felt the cobbles are a worthy addition were just making the point that there's all sorts of dangers in a race and that the cobbles are no more or less of a problem than many others. I've said it before but will repeat it, what issues there were today were down to rain and we probably would have seen just as many on a bog standard flat stage. I just don't see why suffering through mountains in whatever conditions are thrown up is less bad than bouncing over 15km of cobbles (less than that in the end).

Certainly no macho willy waving intended by me. I'm happy to admit I couldn't ride over those roads (or an alpine stage) but I don't think there's any justifiable reason not to have cobbles. I'm happy to apologise if you felt anything I said was personal.

I don't think you should apologise. You've posted nothing to apologise for. Neither has anyone else in this thread. And there's nothing wrong with willy waving either if that's what you want to do. You're a man, so be a man. I don't see why we should tolerate one person's attempts to emasculate the forum.

This reminds me of the scene from Team America, there are three types of people in this world... Can't remember which comes out on top but as we are all faceless on forums gender/race/girth etc doesn't matter... Unless your a d1ck.

Pross

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

I took issue with Rich's post comparing it with Wimbledon and indirectly to Iain's in the post you quoted above. You and DD were more vocal in your opinion that the cobbles shouldn't be included though.

And I suppose I'm asking that people just respect other people's opinions rather than mock them, try and say they are saying something else or suggest in hindsight that just because today saw no major issues that those opinions are automatically invalid. I haven't changed my opinion because today saw no major disaster. I still think today's stage was designed more to engender some sort of 'soap opera' than anything else and I don't like that risk taking with people's bodies.

It all just struck me that some people were happy that the stage was becoming like a cage fight rather than a cycle race.

I still disagree on the soap opera point (other than the whole race is and always will be one and was created for that purpose). Cobbles aren't new to the race, that's why I find it hard to understand the argument that they shouldn't be included.

joelsim

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

I took issue with Rich's post comparing it with Wimbledon and indirectly to Iain's in the post you quoted above. You and DD were more vocal in your opinion that the cobbles shouldn't be included though.

And I suppose I'm asking that people just respect other people's opinions rather than mock them, try and say they are saying something else or suggest in hindsight that just because today saw no major issues that those opinions are automatically invalid. I haven't changed my opinion because today saw no major disaster. I still think today's stage was designed more to engender some sort of 'soap opera' than anything else and I don't like that risk taking with people's bodies.

It all just struck me that some people were happy that the stage was becoming like a cage fight rather than a cycle race.

That's just forums though isn't it? There will always be people with a different opinion. Otherwise life would be boring. I do agree that there is no need for nastiness.

mfin

None of it matters. Even if someone feels glad that Froome is out, they've got a perfect right to feel whatever they want, and to say it. If it brings someone joy, does it really matter? No. We all get different things out of watching it, there doesn't have to be any consensus of opinion whatsoever.

mooro

Joelsim wrote:

Mooro wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

silly little boys waving their willies around like they're back in the playground

I went to school in the grim north, but even up there that would have been frowned at!

I think the discussion was fine today other than people being pleased about froomes departure which was a bit 'meh'

I'd happily wave my willy around if it was big enough.

Bet the daleks were relieved at your party!

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

I took issue with Rich's post comparing it with Wimbledon and indirectly to Iain's in the post you quoted above. You and DD were more vocal in your opinion that the cobbles shouldn't be included though.

And I suppose I'm asking that people just respect other people's opinions rather than mock them, try and say they are saying something else or suggest in hindsight that just because today saw no major issues that those opinions are automatically invalid. I haven't changed my opinion because today saw no major disaster. I still think today's stage was designed more to engender some sort of 'soap opera' than anything else and I don't like that risk taking with people's bodies.

It all just struck me that some people were happy that the stage was becoming like a cage fight rather than a cycle race.

I still disagree on the soap opera point (other than the whole race is and always will be one and was created for that purpose). Cobbles aren't new to the race, that's why I find it hard to understand the argument that they shouldn't be included.

I think for me there are degrees of soap opera. While I agree that cycling has always been a soap opera, there is a limit to that soap opera and for me today's stage was that limit. Maybe it's because I'm seeing all this through the prism of a media that is relishing in one whole soap opera and its getting on my nerves, that the entertainment factor is eclipsing all else and that I can't help feeling that there are people at ASO that know this and want this. Now of course they have to entertain, that is the point, but as I said entertainment is not an absolute, there are degrees and calculations to be made.

adr82

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

I took issue with Rich's post comparing it with Wimbledon and indirectly to Iain's in the post you quoted above. You and DD were more vocal in your opinion that the cobbles shouldn't be included though.

And I suppose I'm asking that people just respect other people's opinions rather than mock them, try and say they are saying something else or suggest in hindsight that just because today saw no major issues that those opinions are automatically invalid. I haven't changed my opinion because today saw no major disaster. I still think today's stage was designed more to engender some sort of 'soap opera' than anything else and I don't like that risk taking with people's bodies.

It all just struck me that some people were happy that the stage was becoming like a cage fight rather than a cycle race.

I think you are exaggerating. You normally talk a lot of sense, but you're overstating your case here.

The_Boy

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I'm with Tony

Tony Martin: "I would like these kind of stages not to feature in the Tour. If you want cobblestones, go to Roubaix or Flanders".

That means you and Tony also think there shouldn't be descents or roundabouts or tarmac. Are you sure you want to be with Tony?

Now you're doing what you were moaning about others doing, I'm used to a better quality of debating from you. It comes across as sulking because a stage you felt shouldn't be there turned into a classic. As far as I'm aware only one person retired today at by his own comments that was due to a fall yesterday. No favourites lost major time due to a mishap whether a crash or mechanical.

Much as I admire Tony Martin his attitude to cobbles, which he should excel on, disappoints me.

Anyone suggesting that the riders hated it today should look at the Movistar selfie posted up thread, not exactly cobbled specialists but they don't seem traumatised. Chances are if you go out there with the attitude it's going to be miserable then that's what it will be.

Well clearly Tony Martin didn't enjoy today.

But you know what p*sses me off? The way I say that I don't like stages being designed to induce unnecessary drama and then everyone else thinking I mean that there should be no racing at all and being silly little boys waving their willies around like they're back in the playground thinking there oh so funny and clever, ha ha ha ha.

If you take that as me sulking fair enough but I'm not, I'm just disappointed because quite frankly I expected a better standard of maturity from most people on here, you included. You're usually a decent, level headed individual yet today you and lots of other usually decent posters got swept up in the 'banter' and came across like little bullies.

above_the_cows

Joelsim wrote:

Mooro wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

silly little boys waving their willies around like they're back in the playground

I went to school in the grim north, but even up there that would have been frowned at!

I think the discussion was fine today other than people being pleased about froomes departure which was a bit 'meh'

I'd happily wave my willy around if it was big enough.

Joel you're winning post of the thread and are a contender for post of the Tour with your 'Ytting' post, you can use that if you want a willy to wave around.

Macaloon

Mooro wrote:

This reminds me of the scene from Team America, there are three types of people in this world... Can't remember which comes out on top but as we are all faceless on forums gender/race/girth etc doesn't matter... Unless your a d1ck.

On reflection. Maybe too soon for the youtube - but well worth a watch.

The_Boy

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I'm with Tony

Tony Martin: "I would like these kind of stages not to feature in the Tour. If you want cobblestones, go to Roubaix or Flanders".

That means you and Tony also think there shouldn't be descents or roundabouts or tarmac. Are you sure you want to be with Tony?

Now you're doing what you were moaning about others doing, I'm used to a better quality of debating from you. It comes across as sulking because a stage you felt shouldn't be there turned into a classic. As far as I'm aware only one person retired today at by his own comments that was due to a fall yesterday. No favourites lost major time due to a mishap whether a crash or mechanical.

Much as I admire Tony Martin his attitude to cobbles, which he should excel on, disappoints me.

Anyone suggesting that the riders hated it today should look at the Movistar selfie posted up thread, not exactly cobbled specialists but they don't seem traumatised. Chances are if you go out there with the attitude it's going to be miserable then that's what it will be.

Well clearly Tony Martin didn't enjoy today.

But you know what p*sses me off? The way I say that I don't like stages being designed to induce unnecessary drama and then everyone else thinking I mean that there should be no racing at all and being silly little boys waving their willies around like they're back in the playground thinking there oh so funny and clever, ha ha ha ha.

If you take that as me sulking fair enough but I'm not, I'm just disappointed because quite frankly I expected a better standard of maturity from most people on here, you included. You're usually a decent, level headed individual yet today you and lots of other usually decent posters got swept up in the 'banter' and came across like little bullies.

I do hope I haven't been one of the ones to cause you offence. I still disagree with your standpoint obviously, but it was certainly not my intention to cause you to feel under attack.

I do enjoy robust debate and I'm aware that often on the interwebs it's possible for the subtleties of one's comments to be lost when being expressed in the written form so if I've crossed a line at any point I apologise.

Coriander

...

joelsim

Everything is a soap opera, at the end of the day it's about individuals and characters and we all see things in a different way. I know that I still think there is loads of doping, as you well know, does that make my enjoyment any less?

It doesn't as it happens. It p*sses some people off on here for sure, but we are all entitled to an opinion, right or wrong. But you can say that about everything. Cobbles, atheism, David Cameron, Sir Bradley, that muppet Cadel Evans...