Tour de France Stage 5 Ypres-Arenberg *Spoiler*

adr82

underlayunderlay wrote:

adr82 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Did Geraint ride the whole race without falling over?

As far as I know, yes. Not that it will change many opinions about his bike handling I'm sure...

Are we suggesting that friction is his kryptonite?

Have to investigate further! For example, does he regularly fall down when walking around in normal circumstances while being capable of keeping his footing on ice?

mfin

TailWindHome wrote:

Geraint Thomas looking like fellow Welshman Rob Brydon there

RichN95.

The_Boy wrote:

That's the way these things go though. Froome will always be sketchy going downhill because of his handling earlier in his career, while Cunego will always be on the verge of dropping the peloton whenever the road goes downhill..

Hello Carlton.

joelsim

RichN95 wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

That's the way these things go though. Froome will always be sketchy going downhill because of his handling earlier in his career, while Cunego will always be on the verge of dropping the peloton whenever the road goes downhill..

Hello Carlton.

Cunego will be on the verge of dropping his trousers if he gets near the front.

The_Boy

RichN95 wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

That's the way these things go though. Froome will always be sketchy going downhill because of his handling earlier in his career, while Cunego will always be on the verge of dropping the peloton whenever the road goes downhill..

Hello Carlton.

Exactly who i had in mind when I picked Cunego as an example.

ddraver

So, time to answer Pross. I'm gong to do something rare on the internet and not come down 100% in favour of either side. Some of you may be confused by this, I suggest you skip past this one.

First I ll explain, with half an eye on the Football, what I think a GC race should be. I think that the race over 3 weeks should allow any rider with required strength the opportunity to win without requiring a dominant team or a massive slice of luck. For this reason I think TTTs have no place in a GC race as a wily rider on a rubbish team has no chance at all to affect how the race is won. He will lose time regardless.

The trouble with cobbles in a GC race is that the stage DOES NOT become a classics type race - at least not until the damage is often done. In P-R/RVV etc the riders are usually sperarted in to much much smaller groups, and the vast majority of the starting field is already happily back at the hotel before the real action starts by virtue of the fact that once their part of the race is done there is no benefit to carrying on. 2014 P-R was contested by 2 or 3 groups of about 10 riders

Now in a standard GC race this doesnt happen because of things like elimination times everyone - all 190 odd riders (minus a small break of maybe 6 or 7) has to race - and race at the front. This results in the riders that are genuinely going for the stage or the GC race having to contend with a hell of a lot more people around them than usual. This means that staying rubberside down is as much about the random person in front of you (who is as likely to be a Dutch Classics Superstar as a terrified neo-pro riding for OGE or featherweight basque climber) than youre own strength or bike handling skills.

If Haussler (was it?) had gone down at a slightly different angle then superstar bike handler Nibbles would have gone over the bars into a concrete wall and be in the bed next to Froome in Roubaix Hospital tonight. The race then is not a function of skill or strength but purely one of luck.

This appears to need repeating but this situation applies as much to the carnage before the cobbles as the cobbles themselves. As we know, usually on the cobbles the race lines out and, ironically, becomes a lot less risky in terms of crashes (unless you hit a spectator)

That is my concern about cobbles in a GC race. I do not agree that wet roads or descents are similar here as 99% of the time the GC race tends to get effectively neutralised on those places anyway (hence the reason the autobus can get back on. before the stage I was thinking that what the Organisers could do is to say before the stage that the time limit will be significantly increased so that riders who are not bothered by GC can get the hell out of the way as soon as the race for the cobbles starts (effectively they would be in another autobus). That would make it much more of a classics race for GC guys and Specialists rather than the lottery these stages are today.

ddraver

now to today's stage (I'm supporting the Dutch but Mascherano is a flipping hero tonight!)

Well as I said in the earlier stages "cobbles are great until it's your guy that loses out" which is exactly what happened did nt it...

Fair play to Nibbles he's given Bertie something to race at (However Pross the fact that one stage was good does not mean that all the rest of the stages will therefore be good - one point doesnt make a graph and all that). However if Astana cannot shut the GC race down completely with that advantage then you have to wonder what they re doing here.

Essentially we now have the 2012 tour except the mountain train will be wearing light blue (somehow I suspect that there will be no ITAPostal or KZSPostal hilarities from the Twaliabn this time). That Froome (especially given how Gee took Ritchie on a charge up the road) has gone out has likely made the GC race a snooze fest this year* (being one of the very few people that watches the Tour for all it has to offer rather than just the GC race this is not something I'm overly concerned about). I foresee an awful lot of whinging about how boring todays tours are compared to 198whatever over the next few weeks

Whether or not 1 day of excitement can cover a whole 3 weeks of excitement will be down to you. But I might remind a few people of their posts today in a few days...

Oh and while I'm here and the Dutch are ballsing it up...Wiggins is a total irrelevance to this and yes some of you have made this a day for BRPR to forget...

*Unless you think *snort* that...ha ha ha...Talansky or....Bwa ha...Pinot are going to step up ha ha ha ha...Oh Mercy!

adr82

Let's just wait and see how things pan out before we decide how boring the rest of the Tour will be, shall we? Remember last year when there were so many "the Tour is over" posts after the Froome/Porte 1-2 at Ax-3-Domaines? Then next day Garmin did their thing and suddenly it seemed a lot less nailed on than it did that morning? Defending the yellow jersey for over 2 weeks is not an easy thing to do.

adr82

http://inrng.com/2014/07/tour-de-france-stage-5-wrap/

It’s the first time since Bernard Hinault in 1980 that a defending champion quits the Tour. If you’re a fan then it’s a sad moment and if you can’t stand the sight of him then you should be sad too because you won’t see your preferred rider challenge and perhaps beat him either. For neutrals it means the Alberto Contador duel’s over and we lose a GC contender.

thomthom

adr82 wrote:

http://inrng.com/2014/07/tour-de-france-stage-5-wrap/

It’s the first time since Bernard Hinault in 1980 that a defending champion quits the Tour. If you’re a fan then it’s a sad moment and if you can’t stand the sight of him then you should be sad too because you won’t see your preferred rider challenge and perhaps beat him either. For neutrals it means the Alberto Contador duel’s over and we lose a GC contender.

Now that's an expert analysis right there ...

Do I dare say Inrng has become.. slightly.. dull?

RichN95.

ThomThom wrote:

adr82 wrote:

http://inrng.com/2014/07/tour-de-france-stage-5-wrap/

It’s the first time since Bernard Hinault in 1980 that a defending champion quits the Tour. If you’re a fan then it’s a sad moment and if you can’t stand the sight of him then you should be sad too because you won’t see your preferred rider challenge and perhaps beat him either. For neutrals it means the Alberto Contador duel’s over and we lose a GC contender.

Now that's an expert analysis right there ...

Do I dare say Inrng has become.. slightly.. dull?

Sensible opinions usually are.

ddraver

adr82 wrote:

Let's just wait and see how things pan out before we decide how boring the rest of the Tour will be, shall we? Remember last year when there were so many "the Tour is over" posts after the Froome/Porte 1-2 at Ax-3-Domaines? Then next day Garmin did their thing and suddenly it seemed a lot less nailed on than it did that morning? Defending the yellow jersey for over 2 weeks is not an easy thing to do.

There were a hell of a lot more this is so boring, Sky kill racing with their powermeters etc etc posts IIRC

DeVlaeminck

Haven't had time to read the thread but I thought it was a great stage. Froome's injury can't be blamed on the cobbles, he was already injured and went down twice before the cobbles had been reached, I know they were racing for position but if anyone has used this as an excuse to criticise this stage (maybe they haven't but my guess is someone will have) they are grasping at straws.

I still have Contador down as a slight favourite, I'm hoping for Nibali (I wouldn't be gutted if Contador did win though) but he just hasn't shown the form this year to defend that lead for the rest of this race.

joelsim

Sagan 2,4,2,4,4 in the first 5 stages. Wow.

ddraver

it has just crossed my mind that we should get a July without our annual visits from the Clinic Trolls this year which I have to say has cheered me up greatly!

Bo Duke

UncleMonty wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

UncleMonty wrote:

If contador is still anywhere near his early season form then Nibali's two and a half minuets isn't going to be enough, he doesn't even need a crushing stage win, with so many MTF's he just needs to take 30 seconds here 40 second there.

Auch, I think that's easier said than done. We don't see these margins that often anymore. I think the 2:30 down to Contador is somewhat perfect and bodes well for the upcoming stages.

It's a long old race though, the 3rd week will be cricial, as will Astanna's ability to control it for so long.

Nibbles and his team showed in last years Giro they have more than enough skill and determination to go all the way in this years Tour.

Gutted for Froome, but straight back on the bike and aim for the Vuelta.

fleshtuxedo

It's been a busy day. Just caught up with the highlights, and then had a look on here. 80 pages laced with venom to sift through. Think I'll pass

dennisn

FleshTuxedo wrote:

It's been a busy day. Just caught up with the highlights, and then had a look on here. 80 pages laced with venom to sift through. Think I'll pass

So what's everyone p*ssed off about? I haven't read much either but did sense the "venom". :?

emadden

80 pages!!! Never seen a stage thread with so many pages... pissed off I missed the damn stage now. I guess it was epic

Macaloon

ddraver wrote:

it has just crossed my mind that we should get a July without our annual visits from the Clinic Trolls this year which I have to say has cheered me up greatly!

Thanks for protecting 'us' from damaging ideas that come from the outside. But stay vigilant. I see "Idiots" who disagree with you all over the place.

disgruntledgoat

Has ever a multiple PR and RVV winner moaned as much about adverse conditions as Fabian Cancellara?

Pross

ddraver wrote:

it has just crossed my mind that we should get a July without our annual visits from the Clinic Trolls this year which I have to say has cheered me up greatly!

You think Porte will get a free ride from them? :shock:

FocusZing

Incredibly courageous ride from Vincenzo Nibali.



Sorry to see Chris Froome out, the more GCs the better.




Controversy certainly sells.

...shake the room...

jerry3571

So are we looking forward to Wiggo and Froome together at the vuelta?? Couldn't get any worse for Team Sky. :-D

Macaloon

jerry3571 wrote:

So are we looking forward to Wiggo and Froome together at the vuelta?? Couldn't get any worse for Team Sky. :-D

Kennaugh is seriously unlucky. Wiggo's feud with the team might really hurt him here if missing the Vuelta compromises his Worlds TT prep.

tailwindhome

tailwindhome

Re Nibali's performance - I wonder just how cobbly the 2015 World's course is in Richmond.....

above_the_cows

ddraver wrote:

So, time to answer Pross. I'm gong to do something rare on the internet and not come down 100% in favour of either side. Some of you may be confused by this, I suggest you skip past this one.

First I ll explain, with half an eye on the Football, what I think a GC race should be. I think that the race over 3 weeks should allow any rider with required strength the opportunity to win without requiring a dominant team or a massive slice of luck. For this reason I think TTTs have no place in a GC race as a wily rider on a rubbish team has no chance at all to affect how the race is won. He will lose time regardless.

The trouble with cobbles in a GC race is that the stage DOES NOT become a classics type race - at least not until the damage is often done. In P-R/RVV etc the riders are usually sperarted in to much much smaller groups, and the vast majority of the starting field is already happily back at the hotel before the real action starts by virtue of the fact that once their part of the race is done there is no benefit to carrying on. 2014 P-R was contested by 2 or 3 groups of about 10 riders

Now in a standard GC race this doesnt happen because of things like elimination times everyone - all 190 odd riders (minus a small break of maybe 6 or 7) has to race - and race at the front. This results in the riders that are genuinely going for the stage or the GC race having to contend with a hell of a lot more people around them than usual. This means that staying rubberside down is as much about the random person in front of you (who is as likely to be a Dutch Classics Superstar as a terrified neo-pro riding for OGE or featherweight basque climber) than youre own strength or bike handling skills.

If Haussler (was it?) had gone down at a slightly different angle then superstar bike handler Nibbles would have gone over the bars into a concrete wall and be in the bed next to Froome in Roubaix Hospital tonight. The race then is not a function of skill or strength but purely one of luck.

This appears to need repeating but this situation applies as much to the carnage before the cobbles as the cobbles themselves. As we know, usually on the cobbles the race lines out and, ironically, becomes a lot less risky in terms of crashes (unless you hit a spectator)

That is my concern about cobbles in a GC race. I do not agree that wet roads or descents are similar here as 99% of the time the GC race tends to get effectively neutralised on those places anyway (hence the reason the autobus can get back on. before the stage I was thinking that what the Organisers could do is to say before the stage that the time limit will be significantly increased so that riders who are not bothered by GC can get the hell out of the way as soon as the race for the cobbles starts (effectively they would be in another autobus). That would make it much more of a classics race for GC guys and Specialists rather than the lottery these stages are today.

Needless to say I agree.

Macaloon

Denying a rider like Nibali the opportunity to demonstrate his sublime handling skills, courage, and racing nous is 'unfair' too. Why should GT's be completely skewed towards skinny climbers?

smithy21

I just don't get the big fuss here. The parcours changes year on year. Riders crash every year. I am all for the variety.