Scott Foil - Westbrook Cycles

neeb

P.S. The Foil is a great bike because it ISN'T really a full-on aero bike. It's an all-rounder made to be stiff, light and fast first and foremost but with some aero tweaks and marketed as aero.

Grill

Basically Westbrook has a really good relationship with their rep (a fantastic TTer and CXer) as they take all end of season stock at a serious discount and pass it on. When they were blowing out CR1 frames, they took over 500 of them from the factory. So Scott gets rid of their extra stock, the rep takes a small cut and looks good and Westbrook gets a great volume discount on their current and future orders. Everybody wins.

DKay

The reason that Westbrooks are able to offer such amazing Foil frame & Di2 deals is because Scott made the Di2 frames and painted them up, but Shimano then let them down in being unable to supply sufficient groupsets. Because Westbrooks have such a good relationship with Scott, they're able to get their hands on the frames cheap and pass on the savings. As already said, it's a total win win.

londoncommuter, there is no catch at all. The Foil would be perfectly suited to fast-paced summer club runs. In fact, that's exactly the purpose I bought mine for. The fact its a great climbing bike too is a bonus. Westbrooks are a great shop to deal with too.

norvernrob

londoncommuter wrote:

Probably asking the wrong group of people but have I been stupid for ignoring this deal for the last six months? I'm always on the look out for my next dream bike but have somehow ignored this thinking that aero bikes are just a fad that riders wouldn't use if it wasn't for the UCI weight limit and Di2 is a solution to a problem that isn't really there.

Starting to be drawn in though...

What's the catch? The frame is only 80g or so more than the real light weight models, I haven't seen a bad review and a great bike could be built up for roughly £2.5k. I like the sensible properly lacquered frame and the internal cabling is great for hanging it from hooks in our hall.

Is Di2 really not that much heavier though? I read somewhere it's lighter than a mechanical 6800 groupset but that can't be true if you include the battery and junction boxes can it (shifters and mechs are 9g lighter I think)?

Something just doesn't pull at the heart strings like a crazy light frame with SRAM Red would but am I just being daft as ride in the hardly mountainous Kent? I guess, nobody actually "needs" a high end bike so there has to be that irrational appeal as well.

Just for a bit of context, it would be for summer use on fast club runs (I don't race but also don't do plodding rides).

Anyway, apologies for dumping this diatribe into what looks like a great knowledge sharing thread for everyone doing their own build.

I don't know if there are any still knocking around, but I got my 2013 Foil 10 (HMX frame) from Westbrooks a couple of months ago for £3k. Sram Red, all the Ritchey finishing kit etc, the whole thing weighs 6.7kg.

I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference with the frames anyway though, and depending on finishing kit and wheels you could get one of these Di2 bikes under 7kg I would assume. Mine has reasonably heavy 46mm 1650g carbon/alloy clinchers so you could drop 200-300g there with some lighter ones.

londoncommuter

Thanks for the gentle persuasion. It is starting to appeal more and more....

Is there anything odd about the sizing? I've seen mention of long forks and the ETT seems fairly long but the stack and reach on the 54cm should suit me. A 52cm would also be an option but I guess no stock saves me agonising over that.

On the wider topic of Di2, are any of you sceptical converts? Is it the best thing since sliced bread or should you have stuck with a nice light mechanical groupset. I've had one ride on a "superbike" with a 750g frame and I didn't get onto appreciating the frame as I just marveled at how lovely the front shifting was with SRAM Red!

neal1984

I thought it was just a fad and I wouldn't be too impressed with Di2 but I was wrong. I love it to be honest and the best thing about it is the frame it's bolted to. The foil is a seriously good frame. I'm not a strong cyclist but it has transformed my riding almost to the point (but not quire) where I'm enjoying the hills. I certainly don't fear them like I once did. I also found it quite satisfying building my own bike which is something I've never done before.

norvernrob

londoncommuter wrote:

Thanks for the gentle persuasion. It is starting to appeal more and more....

Is there anything odd about the sizing? I've seen mention of long forks and the ETT seems fairly long but the stack and reach on the 54cm should suit me. A 52cm would also be an option but I guess no stock saves me agonising over that.

On the wider topic of Di2, are any of you sceptical converts? Is it the best thing since sliced bread or should you have stuck with a nice light mechanical groupset. I've had one ride on a "superbike" with a 750g frame and I didn't get onto appreciating the frame as I just marveled at how lovely the front shifting was with SRAM Red!

The sizing is pretty much normal, I'm 5'9 with a 32" inside leg and ride a 54. The stand over height is fairly low I would say, just under 78cm if I remember rightly. I have the stem right on the headset, so a 52 would end up with me either with a huge drop or more spacers under the stem.

neeb

duplicate post due to buggy BR website..

neeb

NorvernRob wrote:

londoncommuter wrote:

Thanks for the gentle persuasion. It is starting to appeal more and more....

Is there anything odd about the sizing? I've seen mention of long forks and the ETT seems fairly long but the stack and reach on the 54cm should suit me. A 52cm would also be an option but I guess no stock saves me agonising over that.

On the wider topic of Di2, are any of you sceptical converts? Is it the best thing since sliced bread or should you have stuck with a nice light mechanical groupset. I've had one ride on a "superbike" with a 750g frame and I didn't get onto appreciating the frame as I just marveled at how lovely the front shifting was with SRAM Red!

The sizing is pretty much normal, I'm 5'9 with a 32" inside leg and ride a 54. The stand over height is fairly low I would say, just under 78cm if I remember rightly. I have the stem right on the headset, so a 52 would end up with me either with a huge drop or more spacers under the stem.

Yeah, it's pretty normal. The fork length is about 1cm longer than what is (or was) standard - about 379mm rather than 368mm - but an increasing number of new bikes seem to be going this way too. It just means that you can think of the head tube length as being about 1cm longer than it is. But if the stack & reach work that's all that matters.

Oh, and the seatpost on sizes up to and including 54 is inline - you might need to push the saddle all of the way back if you like a lot of setback from the BB, or else get hold of one the setback posts that is supplied as standard with the larger sizes.

DKay

londoncommuter wrote:

On the wider topic of Di2, are any of you sceptical converts? Is it the best thing since sliced bread or should you have stuck with a nice light mechanical groupset. I've had one ride on a "superbike" with a 750g frame and I didn't get onto appreciating the frame as I just marveled at how lovely the front shifting was with SRAM Red!

I was initially a bit 'meh' with regards to Di2, as I didn't really see the point. But now that I have it, I'm a convert. The shifting is just so fast and precise, with the biggest plus being front shifts. With mechanical, you tend to have to 'plan' your front shifts, but with Di2 it's just a case of flexing an index finger and 'bang', the shift is done. Another plus is being able to do things that just aren't possible with mechnical, such as mapping different functions to each button and being able to fit satellite shifters.

The biggest complement I can give Di2, is that you don't notice it. It just works and it works better than mechnical.

meanredspider

DKay wrote:

The biggest complement I can give Di2, is that you don't notice it. It just works and it works better than mechnical.

This is exactly what Di2 is about - shifting becomes almost subconscious and you just focus on cycling. I love it and, after 3 years (4 if you add the combined time I've had both Di2 bikes), it's been totally reliable

londoncommuter

Gutted. Westbrook's are now out of 54cm.

Oh well, choosing bikes is half the fun so on to the next one. I'll always wonder what the Di2 would have been like....

matt-h

just get the 52.
i'm 5 10, 31" inseam and have the 52.

Fits lovely

matt

londoncommuter

I'm in between sizes so could go for a 52cm but they sold out of those ages ago I think. Never mind. None of "need" another bike anyway......

matt-h

Ah fair enough

pippi_langsamer-2

For those with internal battery, what have you used to plug the hole at the bottom of the downtube? I dont mean the tapped/ threaded holes for the external battery mount (I can blank these out easily), but the one the etube is supposed to route thru for external.

Also, is there a grommet that fits the exit hole at the end of the chainstay to the RM? Considering a small blob of silicone sealant or similar (something easily removable when required).

neal1984

I just put one of the clear frame protector stickers over mine

dirtymonkey1985

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

For those with internal battery, what have you used to plug the hole at the bottom of the downtube? I dont mean the tapped/ threaded holes for the external battery mount (I can blank these out easily), but the one the etube is supposed to route thru for external.

Also, is there a grommet that fits the exit hole at the end of the chainstay to the RM? Considering a small blob of silicone sealant or similar (something easily removable when required).

I had the same thought. Ended up with a little blob of white silicon. To be fair i dont intend to ride mine in the wet if i can help it!!

DKay

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

For those with internal battery, what have you used to plug the hole at the bottom of the downtube? I dont mean the tapped/ threaded holes for the external battery mount (I can blank these out easily), but the one the etube is supposed to route thru for external.

Also, is there a grommet that fits the exit hole at the end of the chainstay to the RM? Considering a small blob of silicone sealant or similar (something easily removable when required).

I used two of the smaller grommets supplied with the frame to plug both of those holes. You can trim the grommet down to make it fit the RD cable exit a bit better, but I didn't find it necessary.

pippi_langsamer-2

Yep, just had a fiddle and I see the round grommet fits I'm in the rear of chainstay hole.

Jeez, some of these etubes are unnecessarily long though!

DKay

Just shove them up into the downtube. If I were to do mine again, I'd zip-tie them together to reduce the amount of rattling around they do. But remember to leave enough slack on the etube running from Junction Box B to the battery so you can still pull the seatpost out.

GGBiker

So it seems this deal is almost gone, only a few odd sizes left. Anyone know if they might be getting more frames in?

I notice they have the contessa foil (ladies version ) for £1199 inc di2 kit, it's actually identical geometry to the standard foil, only thing is the word contessa on the frame, even the colour scheme is the same as the team issue bike (it's hmf carbon not hmx as well, seems to be little difference apart from about 100g in weight).

DKay

GGBiker wrote:

So it seems this deal is almost gone, only a few odd sizes left. Anyone know if they might be getting more frames in?

That all depends if Scott find more 'obsolete' Foil frames lying around in a warehouse corner somewhere.

tom3

Couldn't find my original thread so thought id pop an update in here.

Obviously non di2 but just got hold of their last 2014 foil 10 ultegra for £1650. Quite happy with that!

norvernrob

tom3 wrote:

Couldn't find my original thread so thought id pop an update in here.

Just got hold of their last 2014 foil 10 ultegra for £1650. Quite happy with that!

It's strange how Scott changed the 10 from the HMX frame to the HMF, unless they wanted to justify the price difference of the 'premium' model.

tom3

NorvernRob wrote:

tom3 wrote:

Couldn't find my original thread so thought id pop an update in here.

Just got hold of their last 2014 foil 10 ultegra for £1650. Quite happy with that!

It's strange how Scott changed the 10 from the HMX frame to the HMF, unless they wanted to justify the price difference of the 'premium' model.

I think it puts them in line with Cannondale with the evo or evo hi mod. I looked at the deal this way too, I would struggle to find a evo ultegra for that price so I was happy to 'downgrade ' the frame.

Tube shaping must mean they ride quite similar although I appreciate the HMX would be lighter and stiffer.

Bar Shaker

Someone very clever told me you should never put mastic onto electrical cabling. It's something to do with polymer migration and in time the plastic around the cable rots away, where it contacts the mastic.

londoncommuter

They got one medium Di2 back in stock and I've just pounced! Little bit risky as I've never even sat on one, watch ebay next week when I discover it's huge.....

cgrenn

londoncommuter wrote:

They got one medium Di2 back in stock and I've just pounced! Little bit risky as I've never even sat on one, watch ebay next week when I discover it's huge.....

Don't worry mate, I did the exact same and I was fine

jgarpotter

Slightly random (and to some extent offtopic), but does anyone here use a power meter on their Scott Foil? If so which meter did you opt for?