Orange Hate

kammybear

I can see where Orange are coming from.

10 years ago when I knew jackshit about MTB, all I knew was that Orange made the best bikes....I'd have one if they were about 30-40% cheaper

lawman

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

tobamory

I remember 5 years ago going to Stif in headingley leeds to check out Orange bikes. I eventually bought a 5 pro for 2400 from Llakes, and in all honesty the best bike ive ridden..

Anyway kebabs and beer and working abroad took over and I sold it to my brother, I just rekindled the MTB love again but steered away from Orange because that same 5 is now 3k.

Ive always wanted a Santa Cruz and with the 5 being 3k its now in the near same ball park, and I class the VPP as the defacto standard and best for rear arms.

So I bought a SOLO ( 5010) and I have to say the best bike ive ridden, Like a 5 but less rattles.

That being said, there are many a bike out there that will be cheaper and as Good. I just wanted a SC as it was a bucket List bike and I had the money.

I also rate Planet X they have some bloody good bikes for the cash.....

supersonic

I like this for the cash:

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-65 ... 08678.html

BigAl

This thread does make me chuckle.

I've never ridden an Orange and have nothing against them.... (there's a 'but' coming!)

Just got back from holiday near Dalby and we popped into Big Bear Bikes in Pickering - an Orange 5 in the window. My lad (13 yo) commented: 'Is that something from scrapheap challenge?'

From the mouth of babes......

Kowalski675

lawman

Brilliant!!!

YIMan

lawman wrote:

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

And the prize for the most economically ignorant post of the week goes to.....

cooldad

Much as I generally disagree with anything and everything lawman says, in this case he actually makes a bit of sense.

benpinnick

YIMan wrote:

lawman wrote:

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

And the prize for the most economically ignorant post of the week goes to.....

Please elaborate for us all....

YIMan

benpinnick wrote:

YIMan wrote:

lawman wrote:

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

And the prize for the most economically ignorant post of the week goes to.....

Please elaborate for us all....

The fact that you even ask says it all. Keep buying those Taiwanese/American goods.....

ej2320

YIMan wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

YIMan wrote:

lawman wrote:

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

And the prize for the most economically ignorant post of the week goes to.....

Please elaborate for us all....

The fact that you even ask says it all. Keep buying those Taiwanese/American goods.....

It's more affordable and better made abroad, so why should I buy British?
I buy the cheapest and competition drives the price down, if British was cheaper I'd buy it. But it isn't, so I won't

YIMan

ej2320 wrote:

YIMan wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

YIMan wrote:

lawman wrote:

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

And the prize for the most economically ignorant post of the week goes to.....

Please elaborate for us all....

The fact that you even ask says it all. Keep buying those Taiwanese/American goods.....

It's more affordable and better made abroad, so why should I buy British?
I buy the cheapest and competition drives the price down, if British was cheaper I'd buy it. But it isn't, so I won't

Yep, point proved again.

poah

YIMan wrote:

The fact that you even ask says it all. Keep buying those Taiwanese/American goods.....

a lot of my furniture is Swedish, my electrical goods certainly are not from the UK. Although I drive a Vauxhall the electrics and engine aint from the UK. The parts on my bike are mostly not from the UK with the exception of my front hope brake. My clothes are probably made by some woman in a sweat shop in india.

I don't buy products just because they are made in the UK or any where else. I buy what I think is good value.

benpinnick

YIMan wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

YIMan wrote:

lawman wrote:

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

And the prize for the most economically ignorant post of the week goes to.....

Please elaborate for us all....

The fact that you even ask says it all. Keep buying those Taiwanese/American goods.....

Do you seriously think that's how the economy works? It's that mindset that destroyed most of the British car manufacturers, textiles and many others. The belief that people would or should buy overpriced, inferior, locally manufactured goods in favour or buying superior products from a diverse manufacturing base is simply a false economy. It is better for our economy to outsource certain manufacturing to companies overseas that specialise in doing that than to maintain 100% of the business in the uk. Put another way, I think orange's benefit to the uk economy would go up if they built nicer, better thought out bikes at a more competitive price even if it meant outsourcing the frame manufacture to Taiwan. Why? Because they would sell a lot more bikes overseas. That's where our economy makes real money (something you clearly don't understand). Recycling money within the uk is all well and good, better than sending it overseas, but the real benefit to the UK is to build, or own the brand that builds things that get sold overseas - and you can't do that with overpriced products, irrespective of the quality or otherwise.

cooldad

In addition, spending less on a devilish, cheaper, better, 'furrin' bike, leaves more money to be spent on other goods and services.
Plus the UK based retailer makes some money so can feed his family.
Think of the children.

rockmonkeysc

Im all for buying British if its a better product. Unfortunately in most cases the British product is not the best. That's why I have three bikes made in Taiwan (two uk brands) a car made in Belgium and a motorbike made in Japan.

Dick Scruttock

I'd by British if it was better than the competition but name me one product from a British bike manufacturing company that is:

A. Better than that made by other companies.
B. Reasonably priced in comparison to the competition.

ej2320

YIMan wrote:

ej2320 wrote:

YIMan wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

YIMan wrote:

lawman wrote:

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

And the prize for the most economically ignorant post of the week goes to.....

Please elaborate for us all....

The fact that you even ask says it all. Keep buying those Taiwanese/American goods.....

It's more affordable and better made abroad, so why should I buy British?
I buy the cheapest and competition drives the price down, if British was cheaper I'd buy it. But it isn't, so I won't

Yep, point proved again.

The only point proved here is you have a very small understanding of economics and market economy
The consumer buys the cheapest and competition drives the price down. Providing the goods are of the expected standard I'll buy the cheapest, I don't care where it's made.. If British make bikes were of a good standard and cheaper than the rest I'd buy them, but they're not (With the exception of Saracen maybe, but then again I doubt they're made in Britain).

rockmonkeysc

Saracen use frames made in Taiwan.
BTR and Curtis are the only UK made frames I can think of which are worth buying.

BigAl

YIMan wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

YIMan wrote:

lawman wrote:

I think it's definitely the price factor. A five with frame with a Fox CTD shock is £1599, comes with a 3 year frame warranty and 5 years on the bearings. A Santa Cruz Heckler with the same shock costs £250 less at £1349, comes with a % year frame warranty and lifetime bearing & discounted crash replacement warranty. Both have similar amounts of travel, both have 650b wheels, both weigh about the same, have similar geometry. So as far as I can see your extra £250 gets you a sticker that says 'Made in Britain', which as has been discussed could be seen as bad thing. When you look at it that way, I'd say you'd be mad to go for the Five, and that's before the arguments over noise, looks and the state of the welds come into play.

And the prize for the most economically ignorant post of the week goes to.....

Please elaborate for us all....

The fact that you even ask says it all. Keep buying those Taiwanese/American goods.....

My Anthem frame has more design, R & D and innovation than any current Orange frame. The welding is far superior too. And it cost me £700 including shock.
So yes, I'll keep buying the Taiwanese stuff thanks very much. If you want to pay twice the price for an Orange badge - be my guest.

(And, before anyone points it out I know the anthem is a very different bike to the five. Just using it as an example)

rockmonkeysc

The Anthem is an old design now but still years ahead of anything Orange make.

ej2320

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Saracen use frames made in Taiwan.
BTR and Curtis are the only UK made frames I can think of which are worth buying.

Just as I suspected..
I'd take a Saracen frame set over an Orange frame any day

benpinnick

Bromptons are made in the UK and worth buying. So are hmmm.... I will get back to you on that. Lots of small one man bands that are good but no real 'brands' who make frames in the UK. Just for the record, I don't hate Oranges (either the bike or the fruit), just wouldnt buy one.

ej2320

The only British bike related thing I'll buy are Hope
And that's because I trust their headsets
I'd still buy Shimano brakes over Hope though

mike hunts alpine

One thing you can't wrong them on is that they're high In vitamin c. They've been Getting that right for years.
However I fucking despise oranges they are a pisstake to peel, then you're left with sour segments of dishwater flavoured fruit.

mike hunts alpine

I'm more of an apple guy, iPhones are much superior to bananas.

Kowalski675

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Im all for buying British if its a better product. Unfortunately in most cases the British product is not the best. That's why I have three bikes made in Taiwan (two uk brands) a car made in Belgium and a motorbike made in Japan.

Except some of the best motorbikes you can buy are now British (we'll ignore the Thailand assembled retro twins, 'cos they're for boring old farts), built in the world's most technologically advanced motorcycle factory in Hinckley, and match or exceed anything Japan can offer on price, performance and quality. I didn't buy my StripleR because it was British (makes no difference to me, although it is a cool logo to have on your tank), i bought it because it's far and away the best bike in it's class (and one of the best bikes you can buy, regardless of price) and destroys all it's Japanese competitors in it's class. As one road test against the Jap opposition put it "the others can't even come close to competing on any level". It's no coincidence that Triumph sales are constantly rising while sales of Jap bikes (here and in their own domestic market) are plummeting year on year. Triumph not only make a quality product, they've responded to market changes and make the bikes people want to buy, while the Japanese big four bury their heads in the sand and keep building the kind of bikes people don't want anymore, at ever more ridiculous prices.

lawman

Tbh it's astonishing Triumph do so well when they're based so close to Atherstone and Bedworth! The majority of people around there seem to have lost the ability to mate with somebody other than a family relative and find it incredibly difficult to count to potato!

Kowalski675

lawman wrote:

Tbh it's astonishing Triumph do so well when they're based so close to Atherstone and Bedworth! The majority of people around there seem to have lost the ability to mate with somebody other than a family relative and find it incredibly difficult to count to potato!

My brother lives in Bedworth, but he's not a native.